Coach Doug Mathews has us 8-4.

#251
#251
Montrell Hardy said:
Again, I'm going by what Doug has said himself.... If the '16 and '17 classes in Doug's words were our best classes to date, then how in the world could anyone else on the schedule have more talent other than maybe Bama? On paper those have been our two worst classes under Butch and he's saying those two are better than our Top 5 classes in '14 and '15.
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Maybe because there generally are four recruiting classes on each team, and not two?

Also, starting a new QB Causes everybody to look at us with skepticism. If that new QB over performs, then I could see us winning 9-10. If they all under perform, it could be much worse than 8. The great unknown
 
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#252
#252
EZE said:
Maybe because there generally are four recruiting classes on each team, and not two?

Also, starting a new QB Causes everybody to look at us with skepticism. If that new QB over performs, then I could see us winning 9-10. If they all under perform, it could be much worse than 8. The great unknown
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My point is our two other classes were Top 5 classes nationally and he says our last two are even better than those (I totally disagree with him but that is what he's said). Makes no sense to be predicting an 8-4 team with our schedule if we are as loaded as he has said.
 
#254
#254
JacketVol said:
I agree he did not have the resume. No one worth a crap wanted the job and the AD was I poor financial shape.
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And... how do you know that? It is a fair bet that we do not know who was talked to or who "wanted" the job.

UT made a choice among candidates. It is almost certain that someone else who was "worth a crap" would have taken the job.

He has already done better than his resume and the situation he inherited would've led you to believe. He has a great class he's recruiting and for us they Title IX stuff. With that said, he deserves two more years and then the verdict should be in.
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Yeah... and two years ago... it was "be patient, he needs two more years before we judge".... and in two years... it will be more of the same.

I think he's done pretty close to what his resume would suggest so far. With much better players and resources, he's still under 50% against teams with a winning record over the past 4 years. He does have 7 wins including 4 vs P-5 opponents that won 10 or more games. So that might be considered an "improvement". On the flip side, no division or conference championships with his closest finish 2 games behind the winner.
 
#255
#255
Montrell Hardy said:
I'm surprised Doug has us at 8-4 with how much he hyped up the '16 and '17 recruiting classes. He said at the time both were Tennessee's best classes to date. How are we 8-4 with all that talent?
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I think he's a little surprised how much we lost to the draft...especially Malone.
 
#256
#256
The only way I see CBJ fired is 5 wins. UT is historically a 8-9 win team with the exception of the 90s. So we basically need another Fulmer type coach to get us back to the 10+ seasons again. That's if you look at history to guide you
 
#257
#257
EZE said:
Maybe not, but they are saying that 8-4 is a "failure" and "disaster."

So what is the bar? One more victory than what we finish with?
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8-4 stand a lone is not a failure or a disaster. but if it is the high water mark of this staff...the peak....it won't be good enough....the only questions one really has to answer is how long do you want to give the guy to get there? and do you think he's capable of it? if you don't think he's capable, then i'm sure that group would say 'the sooner the better'. if you do think he is, then i would expect that group to say 'let's see how we do thru 2018'. i'll say this, and i think he's here thru next year regardless...if we get to the end of next year, and there's still no trip to ATL....i'm not sure what else will need to be said..by anyone.

boro laid out a reasonable expectation level either in this thread or another, can't remember which, and don't feel like looking it up...but basically it said, and i agree with, that we should be competing for the division pretty much every year....i take that to mean we should win some combination of, if not both, the GA and FL games with some semblance of regularity--not go on 5,6 or 11 year losing streaks--and if doing that regularly, we could expect to find ourselves in ATL every 2-4 years or so.

get to ATL and then see what happens after that...win, a lot of doors open....lose, and you still represented your division and gave yourself a shot at bigger prizes.

for a program like TN that fancies itself as one of those blue blood programs, i don't think that's unreasonable.
 
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#258
#258
jakez4ut said:
8-4 stand a lone is not a failure or a disaster. but if it is the high water mark of this staff...the peak....it won't be good enough....the only questions one really has to answer is how long do you want to give the guy to get there? and do you think he's capable of it? if you don't think he's capable, then i'm sure that group would say 'the sooner the better'. if you do think he is, then i would expect that group to say 'let's see how we do thru 2018'. i'll say this, and i think he's here thru next year regardless...if we get to the end of next year, and there's still no trip to ATL....i'm not sure what else will need to be said..by anyone.

boro laid out a reasonable expectation level either in this thread or another, can't remember which, and don't feel like looking it up...but basically it said, and i agree with, that we should be competing for the division pretty much every year....i take that to mean we should win some combination of, if not both, the GA and FL games with some semblance of regularity--not go on 5,6 or 11 year losing streaks--and if doing that regularly, we could expect to find ourselves in ATL every 2-4 years or so.

get to ATL and then see what happens after that...win, a lot of doors open....lose, and you still represented your division and gave yourself a shot at bigger prizes.

for a program like TN that fancies itself as one of those blue blood programs, i don't think that's unreasonable.
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Despite all the rumblings to the contrary, that 'Boro cat is a reasonable dude.
 
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#260
#260
jakez4ut said:
8-4 stand a lone is not a failure or a disaster. but if it is the high water mark of this staff...the peak....it won't be good enough....the only questions one really has to answer is how long do you want to give the guy to get there? and do you think he's capable of it? if you don't think he's capable, then i'm sure that group would say 'the sooner the better'. if you do think he is, then i would expect that group to say 'let's see how we do thru 2018'. i'll say this, and i think he's here thru next year regardless...if we get to the end of next year, and there's still no trip to ATL....i'm not sure what else will need to be said..by anyone.

boro laid out a reasonable expectation level either in this thread or another, can't remember which, and don't feel like looking it up...but basically it said, and i agree with, that we should be competing for the division pretty much every year....i take that to mean we should win some combination of, if not both, the GA and FL games with some semblance of regularity--not go on 5,6 or 11 year losing streaks--and if doing that regularly, we could expect to find ourselves in ATL every 2-4 years or so.

get to ATL and then see what happens after that...win, a lot of doors open....lose, and you still represented your division and gave yourself a shot at bigger prizes.

for a program like TN that fancies itself as one of those blue blood programs, i don't think that's unreasonable.
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Absolutely reasonable.

And I agree, if he doesn't make it to Atlanta this year and is retained, and doesn't make it next year, I'm not sure what else can be said.
 
#261
#261
Behr said:
Absolutely reasonable.

And I agree, if he doesn't make it to Atlanta this year and is retained, and doesn't make it next year, I'm not sure what else can be said.
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Nothing really.
Given the landscape of the division (which is still fuzzy for 17') the answer would be in and concreted well.

Having said that, I don't believe for a second some won't try.
 
#262
#262
BeecherVol said:
Nothing really.
Given the landscape of the division (which is still fuzzy for 17') the answer would be in and concreted well.

Having said that, I don't believe for a second some won't try.
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devil's advocate...will it be equally in concrete if we win the division this year?
 
#264
#264
jakez4ut said:
devil's advocate...will it be equally in concrete if we win the division this year?
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Depends on how it's done, who you beat, and final record. If he somehow won the division with 8 wins, and pulled out a miracle in Atlanta I'd grant a reprieve until next year....but the question would still be there in my mind. That's the story of the blind squirrel and the nut.

Win it like a big boy, beat your eastern rivals, maybe pick up a West win...you'll have proven something.
 
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#265
#265
Behr said:
Not IMO.
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me neither. but that's life. i think no matter what happens this year, there's going to be a debate.

if we over achieve and win the east, then it will be dealt with as an over achievement, and not typical.

if we don't, it'll be new qb, new coaches, new rb, new this new that.

and VN keeps going and going and going and going.....:eek:lol:
 
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#266
#266
'Boro-vol said:
Depends on how it's done, who you beat, and final record. If he somehow won the division with 8 wins, and pulled out a miracle in Atlanta I'd grant a reprieve until next year....but the question would still be there in my mind. That's the story of the blind squirrel and the nut.

Win it like a big boy, beat your eastern rivals, maybe pick up a West win...you'll have proven something.
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yeah, simpler way of what i said to Behr.

if we do win the division, i think it will take some combination of things going well for us, and equally some things going badly for some others.

while GA "looks" the part, we looked it last year and we know how that turned out, and it's not exactly like people are building statues of CJM in gainesville for his "achievements" thus far....

i think if we were to go 10-2 and go to ATL....i'd feel a whole lot better.

9-3 and the division, i'd be good with that, but i'd know deep down in places we don't talk about at parties, that it most likely means FL and GA crapped the bed and opened the door for us....
 
#267
#267
jakez4ut said:
devil's advocate...will it be equally in concrete if we win the division this year?
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It would be concrete that he is capable of doing it and guaranteed another shot at it or better in 18'.

My concrete wasn't gonna set up til 18'. :)
Even if the forms are set this year.
 
#268
#268
jakez4ut said:
yeah, simpler way of what i said to Behr.

if we do win the division, i think it will take some combination of things going well for us, and equally some things going badly for some others.

while GA "looks" the part, we looked it last year and we know how that turned out, and it's not exactly like people are building statues of CJM in gainesville for his "achievements" thus far....

i think if we were to go 10-2 and go to ATL....i'd feel a whole lot better.

9-3 and the division, i'd be good with that, but i'd know deep down in places we don't talk about at parties, that it most likely means FL and GA crapped the bed and opened the door for us....
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9 wins in the regular season show improvement, and you likely beat someone you weren't expected to. Progress.
 
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#269
#269
BeecherVol said:
It would be concrete that he is capable of doing it and guaranteed another shot at it or better in 18'.

My concrete wasn't gonna set up til 18'. :)
Even if the forms are set this year.
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you gotta start using the good stuff then....:eek:lol:
 
#270
#270
'Boro-vol said:
9 wins in the regular season show improvement, and you likely beat someone you weren't expected to. Progress.
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I agree. 9-3 should be the expectation this year. Anything less that that will be a disappointment IMO. The East is still way down, as weak as it has ever been and likely ever will be. At some point you have to step up and take advantage of that.
 
#272
#272
'Boro-vol said:
9 wins in the regular season show improvement, and you likely beat someone you weren't expected to. Progress.
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no disagreement. but isn't that what got us to where we are today, in regards to CBJ? progress with no pay off?

again, really playing devil's advocate here. 9-3 imo, would be a bit of an over achievement....
 
#273
#273
Montrell Hardy said:
I agree. 9-3 should be the expectation this year. Anything less that that will be a disappointment IMO. The East is still way down, as weak as it has ever been and likely ever will be. At some point you have to step up and take advantage of that.
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:thumbsup:

And I don't see but one team that its just obvious is better.
 
#274
#274
jakez4ut said:
no disagreement. but isn't that what got us to where we are today, in regards to CBJ? progress with no pay off?

again, really playing devil's advocate here. 9-3 imo, would be a bit of an over achievement....
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Well...that's what I mean. The payoff (Atlanta) is the progress.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not holding my breath.
 
#275
#275
'Boro-vol said:
Well...that's what I mean. The payoff (Atlanta) is the progress.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not holding my breath.
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:eek:lol: me neither. i do have my sights on 2018 though. i think it could/should be expected more so than last year tbh.

but that's putting the cart before the horse....

i'm getting to the point where i'm excited for the season. i don't have any delusions of grandeur about this upcoming season...but i sure would like to beat FL again, and LSU.

do that and finish 9-3, and i'd be pretty happy with that....ATL or not....8-4...and it's kind of "well ok".....
 
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