Years 4 and 5

#1

Besteresque

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#1
I know many of you are still upset following the game on Saturday, so am I. However, I do want to point out that due to the extreme youth of this football program, we won't really know what we have with Butch Jones until years 4 and 5. Giving the level of recruiting we are experiencing, you have to allow the coach to redshirt and develop guys for 3-4 years to have an accurate gauge of his coaching acumen. Only at that point will we be at a solid enough footing to truly compete with the rest of our conference.

As far as next year is concerned, we need to stay focused on improving. The schedule is about the same level of difficultly, so I would like to see us win seven. However, simply reaching a bowl game in back to back seasons would be a feat we haven't accomplished since 2009-2010.

I compare this to the rebuilding job Spurrier had at SC. It took him until year 6 to really break out at SC. I think the tradition and facilities at UT help to reduce that number to 4-5 years. Still, it will take time.

Overall, this is an unpopular call for patience. We are getting better, but it is going to take years to bring us back from where Dooley left us. (The worst coaching tenure in the history of our program)
 
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#4
#4
Unfortunately, too many only use Freeze, Malzahn, and Saban as references for why it should happen in year 2, or year 3 at the latest.
 
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#5
#5
Realistically, Butch took over when the cupboard was bare. Funny, my Dad and I had this same conversation prior to this season. We had a bet...I said 6-6 and he said 7-5. If things unfold the way I think they will next Saturday...my Dad owes me some food as that's what our bet was.

Next season we will be a lot better. I’m saying realistically 7-5 maybe 8-4. If you think anything different...so be it.

It’s possible to be better, just not seeing anything better than 8-4.

The 2016 season is the one to watch out for. All this young talent will be refined by then, and we should have some talented depth at all positions. If this staff stays together; they will be a force to be reckoned with at the SEC and national level.
 
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#6
#6
Why are we the only program in America where coaches need 5 years before they can be evaluated? How often do coaches show very little improvement over 4 years and then suddenly make a big leap in year 5? Why does Butch Jones need more time than coaches at Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas, etc?

If your coach needs a roster stocked with 4 star recruits and 5th year seniors in order to field a competitive squad then your coach is terrible.
 
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#7
#7
Why are we the only program in America where coaches need 5 years before they can be evaluated? How often do coaches show very little improvement over 4 years and then suddenly make a big leap in year 5? Why does Butch Jones need more time than coaches at Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas, etc?

If your coach needs a roster stocked with 4 star recruits and 5th year seniors in order to field a competitive squad then your coach is terrible.
Ive wondered the same thing, but in looking back, a coach turning a team around in one season is an anomaly, it happens, but not that often, and looking at those that did, they inherited a much better base of players than this staff did. No one can overlook the absolute negligence that has occurred by the lack of recruiting offensive linemen, and having to field all new lines on both sides of the ball. Not making excuses for anybody, but I think with at least a couple of starters back on the oline, Worley is still the starting QB, and our record is better by one or two games...just my opinion. It is what it is and its the coaches jobs to figure out how to win with what they have while trying to build it up, but the results aren't gonna come as quickly as we wanted them to , or as quickly as we have seen them happen in other situations at other schools. With our offensive line, we are a mediocre team, reflective in our mediocre record. Both will improve.
 
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#8
#8
If we had just taken care of business against Florida, the outlook on this season would be totally different. I'm still frustrated about that game. 7-5 with one important streak broken would have to be considered a success...even as it stands now it's not the end of the world as long as we avoid disaster next Sat.
 
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#9
#9
Why are we the only program in America where coaches need 5 years before they can be evaluated? How often do coaches show very little improvement over 4 years and then suddenly make a big leap in year 5? Why does Butch Jones need more time than coaches at Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas, etc?

If your coach needs a roster stocked with 4 star recruits and 5th year seniors in order to field a competitive squad then your coach is terrible.
If you have a solution, tell us about it , if not, stick with us , it's gonna be a long winning ride.:dance2:
 
#10
#10
If we had just taken care of business against Florida, the outlook on this season would be totally different. I'm still frustrated about that game. 7-5 with one important streak broken would have to be considered a success...even as it stands now it's not the end of the world as long as we avoid disaster next Sat.

I consider 6-6 and a bowl game a success. We are improving. If we had last years OL we are probably an 8 win team. Skill positions are much more talented than last and are about to get even better
 
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#11
#11
I've finally come to grips with the thought that if Les Miles can win a National Championship, any idiot can as long as they have top recruits and luck. You don't have to be the "best" coach on the field. Fulmer, Fisher, Chizik, Tuberville (I consider that undefeated season) all come to mind. All coaches have strengths and weaknesses, it's just that game management is one of the few skills that fans see on a weekly basis. I still don't like it, I think it's excuse making, and I think a coach needs to be held accountable for bad game management because you will lose games that you shouldn't. But if Les Miles can do it so can Butch (with Top 5 classes).
 
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#12
#12
So Saban can take over from Shula who was little if any better than Dooley... and win in year two.

Freeze can take over a complete train wreck at Ole Miss and compete for the West in year 3.

Sumlin takes over for a guy who couldn't win and didn't even recruit all that well and wins right away.

Franklin takes over a "never was" program at Vandy and sets program high water marks within 3 years.

But at UT with some of the best facilities in the country... not only do you have to act as if you are rebuilding the roster from scratch... you have to wait until the first class is either graduated or RS SRs before expecting results.... ?

Gotcha.
 
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#13
#13
Oh no--this is not acceptable...You sunshine pumpers said that Year 3 was when it started counting. You can't take it back now. Year 3. That is when Butch must prove himself. No more excuses.
 
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#14
#14
Also, any player we have that is any good will be gone after 2-3 years of playing. Then the young excuse is back--no need to redshirt anymore...kids just don't stay. Better get it done in year 3.
 
#15
#15
So Saban can take over from Shula who was little if any better than Dooley... and win in year two.

Freeze can take over a complete train wreck at Ole Miss and compete for the West in year 3.

Sumlin takes over for a guy who couldn't win and didn't even recruit all that well and wins right away.

Franklin takes over a "never was" program at Vandy and sets program high water marks within 3 years.

But at UT with some of the best facilities in the country... not only do you have to act as if you are rebuilding the roster from scratch... you have to wait until the first class is either graduated or RS SRs before expecting results.... ?

Gotcha.

All those above had a full team of upper classmen too.
A lot of you guys if Ole Miss or Auburn fans would be ready to fire Malzahn and Friese since their losses lately.
 
#16
#16
I've finally come to grips with the thought that if Les Miles can win a National Championship, any idiot can as long as they have top recruits and luck. You don't have to be the "best" coach on the field. Fulmer, Fisher, Chizik, Tuberville (I consider that undefeated season) all come to mind. All coaches have strengths and weaknesses, it's just that game management is one of the few skills that fans see on a weekly basis. I still don't like it, I think it's excuse making, and I think a coach needs to be held accountable for bad game management because you will lose games that you shouldn't. But if Les Miles can do it so can Butch (with Top 5 classes).

post of the day in my opinion
 
#17
#17
So Saban can take over from Shula who was little if any better than Dooley... and win in year two.

Freeze can take over a complete train wreck at Ole Miss and compete for the West in year 3.

Sumlin takes over for a guy who couldn't win and didn't even recruit all that well and wins right away.

Franklin takes over a "never was" program at Vandy and sets program high water marks within 3 years.

But at UT with some of the best facilities in the country... not only do you have to act as if you are rebuilding the roster from scratch... you have to wait until the first class is either graduated or RS SRs before expecting results.... ?

Gotcha.

Shula still recruited well. The offensive line talent is not the fault of this staff - it could be argued we lost two game to just this position group. You can't miss a whole class with no offensive linemen.
 
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#18
#18
So Saban can take over from Shula who was little if any better than Dooley... and win in year two.

Freeze can take over a complete train wreck at Ole Miss and compete for the West in year 3.

Sumlin takes over for a guy who couldn't win and didn't even recruit all that well and wins right away.

Franklin takes over a "never was" program at Vandy and sets program high water marks within 3 years.

But at UT with some of the best facilities in the country... not only do you have to act as if you are rebuilding the roster from scratch... you have to wait until the first class is either graduated or RS SRs before expecting results.... ?

Gotcha.

I agree with the general principle, but that's a little hindsight 20/20. All of those coaches have been successful, but really none other than Sumlin were ever considered as potential coaches for UT during our hiring. Also, Freeze is looking like a flash in the pan. At least Butch is stocking the cupboard and he will either win with those players or we will finally be able to get a good coach who wants to come here. Either way, recruiting the way he is is a win no matter what and you can only name 4-7 coaches that have done better.
 
#19
#19
Oh no--this is not acceptable...You sunshine pumpers said that Year 3 was when it started counting. You can't take it back now. Year 3. That is when Butch must prove himself. No more excuses.

I've never said anything. This is my first post on the subject.

Consider how young we are. I don't need to look to guarantee that no other new coach in the SEC the last 10 years has had to deal with the previous coach refusing to sign a single offensive lineman in a recruiting class.
 
#20
#20
I've never said anything. This is my first post on the subject.

Consider how young we are. I don't need to look to guarantee that no other new coach in the SEC the last 10 years has had to deal with the previous coach refusing to sign a single offensive lineman in a recruiting class.

I know you excuse-makers like to think so, but that one detail does not absolve Butch Jones of all responsibility from doing his job. If you look at the situations, Jones had plenty of advantages other coaches didn't. You people act like unless a coach walks in to a situation where they are stocked with depth and talent and experience at every position and suffer no injuries or bad breaks then, and only then, can a coach actually be held accountable for winning football games. It's such utter nonsense.
 
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#21
#21
I know you excuse-makers like to think so, but that one detail does not absolve Butch Jones of all responsibility from doing his job. If you look at the situations, Jones had plenty of advantages other coaches didn't. You people act like unless a coach walks in to a situation where they are stocked with depth and talent and experience at every position and suffer no injuries or bad breaks then, and only then, can a coach actually be held accountable for winning football games. It's such utter nonsense.

Not a loser mentality, just a realistic mentality. People like to win, and I get that. So do I. However, we have to understand that you aren't going to be successful playing a JV squad against the Varsity in the SEC.
 
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#22
#22
Why are we the only program in America where coaches need 5 years before they can be evaluated? How often do coaches show very little improvement over 4 years and then suddenly make a big leap in year 5? Why does Butch Jones need more time than coaches at Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas, etc?

If your coach needs a roster stocked with 4 star recruits and 5th year seniors in order to field a competitive squad then your coach is terrible.

How often does a coach come into a dumpster fire like Jones did? It's easy to do it if you have upperclassmen with talent that have played and have been coached.
 
#23
#23
Shula still recruited well. The offensive line talent is not the fault of this staff - it could be argued we lost two game to just this position group. You can't miss a whole class with no offensive linemen.

The OL is poor and you could probably argue that an absence of more OL's is a critical factor in them not being outstanding. But they aren't even mediocre. And that doesn't quite explain why the OL stank last year too. Remember 3 of those guys are now NFL starters. Tiny would be in the NFL if not for his injury.

Shula did NOT recruit very well. Very mediocre His discipline was even worse within the program. Saban cleaned house in that first year then rebuilt very quickly.
 
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#25
#25
I don't know readily where to go get the information, but could somebody find the class break down for Saban, Freeze, etc... and break down by year of elgibility what their starting teams had in their years 1 and 2? I actually have no idea what the answer is and would like to see the results.

A couple of people already posted Mizzou's depth over the weekend which was telling, but that isn't the debate here. He and his staff have been stable for quite a while there.
 

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