My conversation with a VFL

#1

TheCubster

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#1
This weekend I had the chance to talk with a real VFL that played for Kiffin, Dooley and Butch. (I'd rather not give his name so flame away/check my stats) He gave some interesting perspectives on the former coaches.
He said that Kiffin was one of the coolest guys he's ever met. He was such a prick in the media but when the doors to the meeting room closed he was a totally different person-the kind of coach that players would do anything for. He would tell them he was such a douche to the media because he didn't care/like them and the only thing he cared about was the team and the players were all in for him. We he left and met with the players things were really heating up and a lot of choice words were flying. Monte Kiffin (who was respected beyond belief) stood up and told them it was about business and a once in a lifetime opportunity, that this was the reality of the business side of college football and life in general. After that everyone settled down and was able to move on.
As for Dooley I asked if he was as incompetent as he seemed and he said absolutely. Said the players really quit on him during year two but it was still Tennessee and they played for the Orange and White but not for the coach. The whole orange dog thing was ridiculous because he was the most glass half empty person he's ever known and one day in a team meeting started talking about all the negativity from the team (most of which came from him) and referenced a book about positive thinking and "Feeding the Dog" so he brings in the stupid orange dog that's supposed to get them to think positive. Just made everyone aware of how big of a joke he really is. As for the whole showering thing, he said that was just him trying to be cool to the media. It was during camp at the point when you're spending pretty much all your time in close quarters with your team mates. One guy gets a staph infection and pretty soon everyone has it (because teenage boys aren't exactly known for being hygienic). So one of the trainers comes into a meeting and reminds them to wash their clothes and shower regularly (just like every team has to be reminded of) and Dooley decides to be cute and tell the media they had a shower seminar.
He seems to be behind Butch and like the direction the program is going. From the way he talked, Butch really does involve former players in the program. He mentioned talking to him and emailing him about planning for summer camps he has helped with as well as other team activities. It seemed like he has easy access to Butch and staff, which I think is pretty cool for such a busy guy to really value others' input. Unfortunately I didn't get to ask him if he cussed at the team. Maybe next time.
 
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#2
#2
He said that Kiffin was one of the coolest guys he's ever met. He was such a prick in the media but when the doors to the meeting room closed he was a totally different person-the kind of coach that players would do anything for. He would tell them he was such a douche to the media because he didn't care/like them and the only thing he cared about was the team and the players were all in for him. We he left and met with the players things were really heating up and a lot of choice words were flying. Monte Kiffin (who was respected beyond belief) stood up and told them it was about business and a once in a lifetime opportunity, that this was the reality of the business side of college football and life in general. After that everyone settled down and was able to move on.

The second sentence totally contradicts itself. He was only a prick to the media, so that's why he not only left after one year but tried to take our players with him? And you're telling me this player actually believed him that he's only a dick in the media despite it happening not only right in front of him but to the team he plays on. Makes sense to view him as "cool" knowing all of that...

I saw nothing cool about Lane other than his wife making a personal choice to paint up orange like Bruce Pearl on a daily basis. I don't know about you... but if I employed someone and I let them use my money to help build my business, only for them to turn around after one year and try to walk out the door with my clients(players), he'd hands down be the biggest p.o.s. I had ever worked with in that scenario. He literally used our money to recruit and then tried to take the players with him on our dime. How is that anything but a dick? That's a moral low ground that's generally reserved for the scummiest of business practices.
 
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#3
#3
I don't get the part about Kiffin and the media. I don't recall him being a prick with them. He just came off as sort of an idiot. And even if he was a jerk to the media, why would the players care?

Ultimately, he proved himself to be a prick to the players, too, by leaving them high and dry.
 
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#5
#5
Kiffin was cool because he was an immature kid when he was here. It's fun when your boss is a partying, trim chasing regular joe.
 
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#6
#6
I don't get the part about Kiffin and the media. I don't recall him being a prick with them. He just came off as sort of an idiot. And even if he was a jerk to the media, why would the players care?

Ultimately, he proved himself to be a prick to the players, too, by leaving them high and dry.
I'm one of the 3 Tennessee fans that just isn't that bothered by Kiffin. Everywhere he goes, players seem to like the guy. I think we were just the victim of circumstance in that whole deal.
 
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#9
#9
I'm one of the 3 Tennessee fans that just isn't that bothered by Kiffin. Everywhere he goes, players seem to like the guy. I think we were just the victim of circumstance in that whole deal.

True but I can't help but dislike the guy. He could have turned the program around with 2 recruiting classes but he chose to crap on us. That he got canned at SC brings a smile. Nothing would bring me more joy than for Butch to beat Bama so bad that LK gets canned again.
 
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#10
#10
The second sentence totally contradicts itself. He was only a prick to the media, so that's why he not only left after one year but tried to take our players with him? And you're telling me this player actually believed him that he's only a dick in the media despite it happening not only right in front of him but to the team he plays on. Makes sense to view him as "cool" knowing all of that...

I saw nothing cool about Lane other than his wife making a personal choice to paint up orange like Bruce Pearl on a daily basis. I don't know about you... but if I employed someone and I let them use my money to help build my business, only for them to turn around after one year and try to walk out the door with my clients(players), he'd hands down be the biggest p.o.s. I had ever worked with in that scenario. He literally used our money to recruit and then tried to take the players with him on our dime. How is that anything but a dick? That's a moral low ground that's generally reserved for the scummiest of business practices.

He didn't say he agreed with what he did, only that he and the team could come to terms with it and were able to move on. I personally think it was a total slap in the face and there is more than just the business side of it. He convinced families to trust their son to him and pulled the rug out from under them.
I did forget to add that he said he came to Tennessee without ever visiting it, just based on his conversations with Kiffin and staff.
 
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#11
#11
I'm one of the 3 Tennessee fans that just isn't that bothered by Kiffin. Everywhere he goes, players seem to like the guy. I think we were just the victim of circumstance in that whole deal.

Came across as immature and lacking a level of class I'd like as the CEO of my multi-million dollar program.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TvJy2Ot48M
This was pretty fitting.
 
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#12
#12
I'm so tired of being reminded that he was ever our coach. I wish I could never hear his name again. Just forget it, as if it were a bad dream. But so many of our "fans" seem to want to prove how mature, fair and objective they can be by continuing to defend him. Some even go so far as to seem that they want to rehabilitate his image.

I realize it's the off-season, but honestly...can we not just move on already?
 
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#13
#13
Kiffin never wanted to be at Tennessee. If you saw him during any of the Vol Walks, then you know what I mean. He not only didn't care for the media, he didn't care for the fans or the tradition. His only loves were winning anywhere at any costs and while wearing cool sunglasses. Glad he's gone and can't wait to beat him!
 
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#14
#14
Typical Volnation.
A player states that he actually liked Kiffin and talks about what a screw up Dooley was, and everyone focuses on griping about Kiffin.
 
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#15
#15
I'm one of the 3 Tennessee fans that just isn't that bothered by Kiffin. Everywhere he goes, players seem to like the guy. I think we were just the victim of circumstance in that whole deal.

Well I guess I'm 2 of 3. Hit the nail on the head.
 
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#17
#17
Doyle, you keep throwing me off by how often you change your avatar thumbnail.

Of course we complain more about Kiffin. Dooley crapped all over himself. Kiffin crapped all over Volunteer pride. The latter is much more offensive. Dooley was just an idiot; Kiffin was a smart-alec, immature, disrespectful, self-serving jackass. But no hard feelings, just hope he lives to a ripe old age full of regrets. :)

<-- not one of the 3.
 
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#18
#18
Typical Volnation.
A player states that he actually liked Kiffin and talks about what a screw up Dooley was, and everyone focuses on griping about Kiffin.

Go back and re-read the OP. The 3 nuggets were the fact that the players actually liked Kiffin, Dooley was a doofus and Butch has a good relationship with former players.

Only one of those observations is the least bit remarkable.
 
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#19
#19
I'm one of the 3 Tennessee fans that just isn't that bothered by Kiffin. Everywhere he goes, players seem to like the guy. I think we were just the victim of circumstance in that whole deal.

I think it just gets under people's skin that he seems to keep getting good gigs without actually having much on his resume, other than his last name, to justify the hire.
 
#20
#20
Does he cuss at the team? I supposed that means CBJ, but I wasn't sure.. If it was, I can answer that one easily.. Hel( Yes! he does, and his coaches and anyone else who isn't going 100% .. I never played for a coach that didn't and don't think I knew of any except Bobby Johnson at VU. THAT is NOT a big deal..
 
#21
#21
Doyle, you keep throwing me off by how often you change your avatar thumbnail.

Of course we complain more about Kiffin. Dooley crapped all over himself. Kiffin crapped all over Volunteer pride. The latter is much more offensive. Dooley was just an idiot; Kiffin was a smart-alec, immature, disrespectful, self-serving jackass. But no hard feelings, just hope he lives to a ripe old age full of regrets. :)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of the two coaches. I am of the opinion that Dooley did infinitely more damage to the program than Kiffin ever did. Honestly speaking though, the one we all should be blaming is Hamilton because he's the one who hired both of them. It still blows my mind how you fire a longstanding coach without any solid plan in place. I mean Kiffin supposedly told Hamilton that he would leave Tennessee for USC if the job became open and he hired him anyway.
 
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#22
#22
Absolutely agree that Hamilton has ultimate blame for the Vols Dark Ages.

Absolutely agree Dooley did more damage to the team, but that's primarily because he was allowed to continue his idiot ways for three whole years. Back to Hamilton for that.

Kiffin's damage to the program was more to tradition and pride. In my mind, you can't compare those two types of damage, they're just too different to try to equate.
 
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#23
#23
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of the two coaches. I am of the opinion that Dooley did infinitely more damage to the program than Kiffin ever did. Honestly speaking though, the one we all should be blaming is Hamilton because he's the one who hired both of them. It still blows my mind how you fire a longstanding coach without any solid plan in place. I mean Kiffin supposedly told Hamilton that he would leave Tennessee for USC if the job became open and he hired him anyway.

In fairness to Hamilton, No one thought Pete was going to leave USC anytime soon. As for the Dooley Hire, Im not sure at that point Hamilton could have gotten anybody, coaches ran and the timing was awful. The coaches were in full recruiting mode at that point. Tennessee had a black eye so to speak, and the rumors of Tenns tougher than their competitions admissions requirements were in full swing.

That said Hamiltons focus became more spiritual than professional and his heart wasn't 100% committed to UT. Not that serving his God was wrong, it just is what it was.
 
#24
#24
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of the two coaches. I am of the opinion that Dooley did infinitely more damage to the program than Kiffin ever did. Honestly speaking though, the one we all should be blaming is Hamilton because he's the one who hired both of them. It still blows my mind how you fire a longstanding coach without any solid plan in place. I mean Kiffin supposedly told Hamilton that he would leave Tennessee for USC if the job became open and he hired him anyway.

I think they both did damage in different ways. Kiffin destroyed the perception of the UT coaching job. I think it is despicable that he let Ogre try to steal recruits that were already on campus, however. I am not one of these fans that gets upset when a coach begins to recruit for their new school, but to call players already on campus from a cell phone provided by UT crosses all ethical lines.

Dooley was not at all qualified. He wanted to have a Sabanesque approach to coaching, but he had no area of expertise.
 
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#25
#25
Recollections of a dark past. We still have the admin that sat and fiddled as Rome burned. Our great facilities were made possible by our very generous alumni and fan base that love UT. :clapping:
 

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