tiger High, stuck with Pastner, looking at AD

#1
wmcovol

wmcovol

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#1
and a conflict of interest issue surrounding the same firm representing both he and Joshboy. Seems the pay out after last season would have been $10.6 million....after the AD extended JPs contract a few yrs ago.

Now is a time to strike in Memphis if there are any players there that Vols want. Tiger High is in turmoil. They want JP gone so bad, cant afford it and now one else wants him.....
 
#2
#2
Supposedly the president leaked this info, he is looking to find a way to fire Pastner with cause to get out of his buyout.
 
#6
#6
The meltdown here in Memphis, is very entertaining. There are so many angles to this. Pastner's buyout, Bowen's involvement and propensity to improve a struggling historical power in bball as a football focused AD, whether or not keeping the Lawson's and their dad played into any of these decisions....etc. I think the most interesting dynamic is that Memphis must average at least 6000 fans a game in order to continue receiving their annual payment from the Grizzlies in order to use the arena. They barely reached that last year and will be staring at abysmal home crowds next year as well. Every year they keep Pastner is digging the hole bigger for the next coach. Interestingly enough, the name at the top of most Memphis fans wish list is Bruce Pearl, but regardless I agree with the poster that Barnes needs to take advantage of the rich Memphis recruiting bed while the tigers are down.
 
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#7
#7
This is really turning ugly to say the least. CJP is notoriously known as a clean, well respected gentleman and by all accounts and people I know (have a best friends son on staff as a major player) he is...SO...they want him gone SO badly that they are starting to eat folks alive and it appears they are willing to destroy a couple of peoples reputation to get it done....its very sad and just plain ugly...WOW!!!
 
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#8
#8
tennrich1 said:
This is really turning ugly to say the least. CJP is notoriously known as a clean, well respected boy and by all accounts and people I know (have a best friends son on staff as a major player) he is...SO...they want him gone SO badly that they are starting to eat folks alive and it appears they are willing to destroy a couple of peoples reputation to get it done....its very sad and just plain ugly...WOW!!!
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fyp
 
#9
#9
Memphis is losing 3 key seniors ans possibly it best player in Dedric Lawson.

Memphis will struggle to get 10 wins next season. They are going to hit rock bottom. There won't be much talent left.
 
#11
#11
bleedingTNorange said:
Supposedly the president leaked this info, he is looking to find a way to fire Pastner with cause to get out of his buyout.
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If they are leaking this kind of thing on purpose then they may indeed fire him in the end. Going this route is cutting his legs out from under him. You don't do that if you aren't willing to fire him if it doesn't work. Of course, we are talking about a place that gave a $10.6 million buyout to a holdover place holder coach that should have never seen year 4 so we obviously aren't dealing with people who make sound decisions.

Just my immediate take on this. I haven't followed this story. Just going off OP and your post.
 
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#12
#12
BigZiti09 said:
If they are leaking this kind of thing on purpose then they may indeed fire him in the end. Going this route is cutting his legs out from under him. You don't do that if you aren't willing to fire him if it doesn't work. Of course, we are talking about a place that gave a $10.6 million buyout to a holdover place holder coach that should have never seen year 4 so we obviously aren't dealing with people who make sound decisions.

Just my immediate take on this. I haven't followed this story. Just going off OP and your post.
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You are pretty much on point with your assessment. Pastner's best year was his first, when he won 24 games after Cal took the Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe (would have been Xavier Henry, had calipari stayed in Mem) class with him. He recruited great talent his first 4 or so years but none of that talent developed or got any better (Maybe Barton, maybe). Goodwin has gotten worse. He has won 2 meaningless first round tourney games in 7 years with Memphis talent and gotten boat raced in the other tourney games. I think he could have been a decent head coach if he had gone the smaller conference route first and not come to Memphis were the coach needs to be able to relate and gain the respect of a lot of inner city players. Pastner, who looks like the newest Jonas Brother and has never cussed (not a joke), is certainly not that type of coach. Now, he has probably ruined any chance, maybe ever, to be a head coach at a major program again. He is excellent with the X's and O's he just doesn't know how to develop or motivate right now and that is his problem.

Sorry for the tiger high rant. I have to hear this crap 24/7down here. Barely any coverage for my Vols at all in the Memphis Sports media, but you can here about Memphis or Ole Miss whenever you want. Thank God for Volnation.
 
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#13
#13
The Artful Dodger said:
You are pretty much on point with your assessment. Pastner's best year was his first, when he won 24 games after Cal took the Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe (would have been Xavier Henry, had calipari stayed in Mem) class with him. He recruited great talent his first 4 or so years but none of that talent developed or got any better (Maybe Barton, maybe). Goodwin has gotten worse. He has won 2 meaningless first round tourney games in 7 years with Memphis talent and gotten boat raced in the other tourney games. I think he could have been a decent head coach if he had gone the smaller conference route first and not come to Memphis were the coach needs to be able to relate and gain the respect of a lot of inner city players. Pastner, who looks like the newest Jonas Brother and has never cussed (not a joke), is certainly not that type of coach. Now, he has probably ruined any chance, maybe ever, to be a head coach at a major program again. He is excellent with the X's and O's he just doesn't know how to develop or motivate right now and that is his problem.

Sorry for the tiger high rant. I have to hear this crap 24/7down here. Barely any coverage for my Vols at all in the Memphis Sports media, but you can here about Memphis or Ole Miss whenever you want. Thank God for Volnation.
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My impression of Pastner has always been that he has no control of or respect from his players. It's always seemed like he was in over his head. It was that way in year one and it still is today.

I remember his first year in Knoxville we embarrassed them and I sat near his bench. I never saw a guy who looked more lost than he did that night.
 
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#14
#14
BigZiti09 said:
My impression of Pastner has always been that he has no control of or respect from his players. It's always seemed like he was in over his head. It was that way in year one and it still is today.

I remember his first year in Knoxville we embarrassed them and I sat near his bench. I never saw a guy who looked more lost than he did that night.
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I been to a few UM games over his tenure and I've honestly never seen a bench more out of control than his....players not even listening to the head coach...that type of stuff....This whole mess could have set this program back for years and years...its has really taken the connection to the community right out of play....and now we see the city of Memphis is hard pressed to support a college and NBA team...it just is and now this rocky roads really highlites the issue...
 
#15
#15
The Artful Dodger said:
You are pretty much on point with your assessment. Pastner's best year was his first, when he won 24 games after Cal took the Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe (would have been Xavier Henry, had calipari stayed in Mem) class with him. He recruited great talent his first 4 or so years but none of that talent developed or got any better (Maybe Barton, maybe). Goodwin has gotten worse. He has won 2 meaningless first round tourney games in 7 years with Memphis talent and gotten boat raced in the other tourney games. I think he could have been a decent head coach if he had gone the smaller conference route first and not come to Memphis were the coach needs to be able to relate and gain the respect of a lot of inner city players. Pastner, who looks like the newest Jonas Brother and has never cussed (not a joke), is certainly not that type of coach. Now, he has probably ruined any chance, maybe ever, to be a head coach at a major program again. He is excellent with the X's and O's he just doesn't know how to develop or motivate right now and that is his problem.

Sorry for the tiger high rant. I have to hear this crap 24/7down here. Barely any coverage for my Vols at all in the Memphis Sports media, but you can here about Memphis or Ole Miss whenever you want. Thank God for Volnation.
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Artful, I am guessing by "best year" you are referring to his best coaching job. Pastner actually has 4 other seasons where they won at least 24 games. The reason they are in this mess is because they gave him the extension after a 31-5 season where they went 16-0 in conference, and he was bringing in a top 5 recruiting class. He was supposedly being pursued by other schools. Did the extension and some kind of raise make sense at the time? Yes. Did it make sense to include no buyout or offset clause? Heck no. That's the problem. It was just not negotiated very well.

There is talk that the President wants this known to look at the AD, Tom Bowen. So far, Rudd, the President has been well respected, and he is fairly new. He was not at the school when the extension was signed. There has been talk that the President and AD have a rocky relationship. It is indeed a mess. At least they have football in decent shape.
 
#16
#16
The Artful Dodger said:
The meltdown here in Memphis, is very entertaining. There are so many angles to this. Pastner's buyout, Bowen's involvement and propensity to improve a struggling historical power in bball as a football focused AD, whether or not keeping the Lawson's and their dad played into any of these decisions....etc. I think the most interesting dynamic is that Memphis must average at least 6000 fans a game in order to continue receiving their annual payment from the Grizzlies in order to use the arena. They barely reached that last year and will be staring at abysmal home crowds next year as well. Every year they keep Pastner is digging the hole bigger for the next coach. Interestingly enough, the name at the top of most Memphis fans wish list is Bruce Pearl, but regardless I agree with the poster that Barnes needs to take advantage of the rich Memphis recruiting bed while the tigers are down.
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Really never have been a historical power. They have been pretty average for over 30 years. Only the Cal years were they elite. That was because Cal was elite not Memphis. They like to say "3 final fours", but that's over a 50 year period. Marquette has 5, are they a historical power? Fact is, they have had scattered success here and there and that's it.... I told the tiger fans here this exact thing was gonna happen. They are worse than they normally are, but not a historical power.
Not directed at you by the way, I just love telling the tiger fans this... Where is memphiscane by the way! Lol
 
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#17
#17
the artful dodger said:
you are pretty much on point with your assessment. Pastner's best year was his first, when he won 24 games after cal took the wall, cousins, bledsoe (would have been xavier henry, had calipari stayed in mem) class with him. He recruited great talent his first 4 or so years but none of that talent developed or got any better (maybe barton, maybe). Goodwin has gotten worse. He has won 2 meaningless first round tourney games in 7 years with memphis talent and gotten boat raced in the other tourney games. I think he could have been a decent head coach if he had gone the smaller conference route first and not come to memphis were the coach needs to be able to relate and gain the respect of a lot of inner city players. Pastner, who looks like the newest jonas brother and has never cussed (not a joke), is certainly not that type of coach. Now, he has probably ruined any chance, maybe ever, to be a head coach at a major program again. He is excellent with the x's and o's he just doesn't know how to develop or motivate right now and that is his problem.

Sorry for the tiger high rant. I have to hear this crap 24/7down here. Barely any coverage for my vols at all in the memphis sports media, but you can here about memphis or ole miss whenever you want. Thank god for volnation.
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spot on
 
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#18
#18
I wouldn't say Pastner is excellent with X's and O's. His teams have always been undisciplined and look street ball, AAU esque.
 
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#19
#19
Chris Vernon has been hammering the Tigers here on AM radio. I love it!!! I truly dispise the "Memphis Faithful" bc the majority of those faithful might is well get a divorce over adultery. When things are good, you see flags, t-shirts, hats, etc.... Blah blah blah but when things are bad not a Tiger emblem in site. Hell I even went to the UofM and wore my Vols attire proudly to class day in day out.

Living in this sespool of a city, everybody's fat, everybody's broke, crime is terrible, pretty much don't come here unless you like the suburbs they are nice (for the most part) I learned very quickly to enjoy Knox the 5 or 6 times a year I'm there. I hope they keep pastner forever!! 😂😂😂

PS. Sorry but this guy in 7th grade ruined me on the Tigers. Yea petty, salty, whatever it stuck with me always has always will. Do you know what it's like walking out of a gas station with my vols gear on and hear from a tiger fan "them vols actually gonna do something this year?" my response is always the same "you want my foot in your a$$!?!"

EDIT- btw most tiger fans are secretly Bama fans and Patriots, and Cavs/Heat fans depending on where Diva James is flopping at.
 
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#20
#20
Giveem6 said:
Chris Vernon has been hammering the Tigers here on AM radio. I love it!!! I truly dispise the "Memphis Faithful" bc the majority of those faithful might is well get a divorce over adultery. When things are good, you see flags, t-shirts, hats, etc.... Blah blah blah but when things are bad not a Tiger emblem in site. Hell I even went to the UofM and wore my Vols attire proudly to class day in day out.

Living in this sespool of a city, everybody's fat, everybody's broke, crime is terrible, pretty much don't come here unless you like the suburbs they are nice (for the most part) I learned very quickly to enjoy Knox the 5 or 6 times a year I'm there. I hope they keep pastner forever!! 😂😂😂

PS. Sorry but this guy in 7th grade ruined me on the Tigers. Yea petty, salty, whatever it stuck with me always has always will. Do you know what it's like walking out of a gas station with my vols gear on and hear from a tiger fan "them vols actually gonna do something this year?" my response is always the same "you want my foot in your a$$!?!"

EDIT- btw most tiger fans are secretly Bama fans and Patriots, and Cavs/Heat fans depending on where Diva James is flopping at.
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I like the Grizz. I love seeing the Grizz kill the Tigers in fan support. I also like the BBQ.
 
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#21
#21
VolGee4 said:
Artful, I am guessing by "best year" you are referring to his best coaching job. Pastner actually has 4 other seasons where they won at least 24 games. The reason they are in this mess is because they gave him the extension after a 31-5 season where they went 16-0 in conference, and he was bringing in a top 5 recruiting class. He was supposedly being pursued by other schools. Did the extension and some kind of raise make sense at the time? Yes. Did it make sense to include no buyout or offset clause? Heck no. That's the problem. It was just not negotiated very well.

There is talk that the President wants this known to look at the AD, Tom Bowen. So far, Rudd, the President has been well respected, and he is fairly new. He was not at the school when the extension was signed. There has been talk that the President and AD have a rocky relationship. It is indeed a mess. At least they have football in decent shape.
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Yes, I believe it was USCw that was also pursuing him. Truth is, he should have never made to that extension as one poster said above. There were many teams in the country that could have gone undefeated in the old conference usa, but the inflated regular season record glosses over the fact that he got bounced in the round of 32, with really good talent. Some people say that the talent turned out to be a bust, but that is either because Paster can't evaluate or he can't develop. So its still on him.
 
#22
#22
CWGvol said:
Really never have been a historical power. They have been pretty average for over 30 years. Only the Cal years were they elite. That was because Cal was elite not Memphis. They like to say "3 final fours", but that's over a 50 year period. Marquette has 5, are they a historical power? Fact is, they have had scattered success here and there and that's it.... I told the tiger fans here this exact thing was gonna happen. They are worse than they normally are, but not a historical power.
Not directed at you by the way, I just love telling the tiger fans this... Where is memphiscane by the way! Lol
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I was telling Tiger fans that he wasn't up for the job since year three. I was berated for this opinion back then. I was labeled as a Tennessee fan hating on Memphis. One of the main things that showed me he wasn't up for the job is because he didn't want to play local teams like Tennessee because it hurt the tigers recruiting in the city. That timid attitude will never lead to being a successful D-1 head coach. A good coach wants to play (and beat) all your local rivals in order to boost recruiting, not be scared of what would happen if you played them. Either way the meltdown here is hilarious. Its a funny dynamic between most Memphis Vol fans and Tiger fans here in Memphis. Tiger fans hate Tennessee and view us much like an older brother that they will never measure up to. While Tennessee fans here in Memphis have to hear about Memphis constantly, but never really seem to care to much about their little tiger high brethren.
 
#24
#24
The Artful Dodger said:
I was telling Tiger fans that he wasn't up for the job since year three. I was berated for this opinion back then. I was labeled as a Tennessee fan hating on Memphis. One of the main things that showed me he wasn't up for the job is because he didn't want to play local teams like Tennessee because it hurt the tigers recruiting in the city. That timid attitude will never lead to being a successful D-1 head coach. A good coach wants to play (and beat) all your local rivals in order to boost recruiting, not be scared of what would happen if you played them. Either way the meltdown here is hilarious. Its a funny dynamic between most Memphis Vol fans and Tiger fans here in Memphis. Tiger fans hate Tennessee and view us much like an older brother that they will never measure up to. While Tennessee fans here in Memphis have to hear about Memphis constantly, but never really seem to care to much about their little tiger high brethren.
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That opinion isn't unique to Pastner though. Cal didn't want to play Tennessee either when he was there, for the same reasons. He didn't want to givethe Univ. of Tennessee exposure to local Memphis kids.
 
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#25
#25
cncchris33 said:
That opinion isn't unique to Pastner though. Cal didn't want to play Tennessee either when he was there, for the same reasons. He didn't want to givethe Univ. of Tennessee exposure to local Memphis kids.
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Cal actually understood the benefit of playing Tennessee and Ole Miss, though, and he wasn't scared of losing recruits. Cal also didn't recruit a lot of the Memphis kids, only a select few.
 
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