Why do our 5 star players struggle?

#1

CA_Vol

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#1
After watching another rough night for JJJ, I started thinking about why our recent 5 star players seem to never materialize into the dominate players they are supposed to be.

JJJ looks more like a project than a one-and-done type. Hubbs has a rather unremarkable career. Harris I suppose was the best 5 star we’ve had, but he seems to be the sole example of hype and performance. Hopson has a good career, but I he wasn’t dominating.

Why do you think our 5 star guys seem to struggle so badly compared to those at Duke, Kansas, etc? Not enough quality role players?
 
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#2
#2
Need to copy and paste the post comparing JJJ to the others...he’s performing better than most other 5 stars.

Short answer...there’s a big difference between a guy ranked 3, 7 or 10 and I guy barely in the Top 30 like JJJ, he was right on the cusp of being a 4 star.
 
#3
#3
You have to run a system that lets your horses run. Good coaches position and play their best players in a manner that allows their talents to shine. IMO, that’s why Pearl gets a lot from his kids. If you coach uptight, they’re gonna play hesitantly. For me, I wanna see Santi unload those 3balls, not drive to the land of giants and turn it over. I get they’re trying to create an inside out game but forcing it is causing tons of turnovers.
 
#4
#4
After watching another rough night for JJJ, I started thinking about why our recent 5 star players seem to never materialize into the dominate players they are supposed to be.

JJJ looks more like a project than a one-and-done type. Hubbs has a rather unremarkable career. Harris I suppose was the best 5 star we’ve had, but he seems to be the sole example of hype and performance. Hopson has a good career, but I he wasn’t dominating.

Why do you think our 5 star guys seem to struggle so badly compared to those at Duke, Kansas, etc? Not enough quality role players?
More than anything else, you are dealing with a very small sample size of 5 star players at Tennessee, unlike what you have at Duke, Kansas, etc. You even allude to the fact that of the only 4 players that you can come up with, Tobias Harris played very well at Tennessee and is currently having a good career in the NBA, and while not being an NBA prospect, Scotty Hopson also had a good career at Tennessee. I'm sorry you're frustrated at Josiah James's freshman season, but again, he is just a freshman.
 
#5
#5
I see flashes from JJJ but a lot of frustrating things too. He is too physically gifted to be playing so indecisively.

He needs to trust his shot and take it when available. Surprised he doesn't have a post game. He should dominate smaller guards down low. I get that he is just a freshman and injuries have set him back but I expected him to look better. He is much further along than most of the Barnes freshman recruits so he should be very solid next year and all SEC by junior year if our typical player progression holds form.

JJJ may have a higher ceiling but I think Vescovi will be the better college player. Love his game.
 
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#8
#8
Honestly there's probably 5-10 5 stars that are "impact" players in year 1.

There's only 10 freshman in the top 150 in scoring.

And let's be honest that's what you're commenting on. James' per games are very solid for a freshman who isn't the feature guy.

7.3 PPG (46th among 2019 class)
5.6 RPG (16th among 2019 class)
2.8 APG (9th among 2019 class)
0.8 SPG (per game rank unavailable, but total numbers he's top 30)
0.9 BPG (per game rank unavailable, but total numbers he's top 25)

So despite missing 4 games he's in the top 30 of every major category among freshman except scoring. Which I just don't think that's what he's being asked to do, coming into the season I'm sure he was 4th or 5th as the "option" to score behind Turner, Bowden, Fulkerson and possibly Pons. With Turner out and Santiago arriving he's still probably the 3rd option at best.
 
#10
#10
JJJ is playing out of position.

He’s not a PG at the college level.
Agree and he probably won’t play any point next year. That’ll be handled by some combo of Vescovi, Springer, and Bailey. James’s future is as a “3 and D” wing. He will be good in that role with another offseason of work.
 
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#11
#11
You have to run a system that lets your horses run. Good coaches position and play their best players in a manner that allows their talents to shine. IMO, that’s why Pearl gets a lot from his kids. If you coach uptight, they’re gonna play hesitantly. For me, I wanna see Santi unload those 3balls, not drive to the land of giants and turn it over. I get they’re trying to create an inside out game but forcing it is causing tons of turnovers.
Pearl and Calipari run similar philosophies I think. For comparison, I think Barnes runs more of a program like Jay Wright at Villanova, where you develop understanding and execution over a period of time, and stay in the confines of the scheme. This works, as we've seen from UT and Nova the past 5 years...but, as we've seen this year, if you're devoid of consistency in leadership/execution because of the back-fill of players, it can be a struggle.
 
#12
#12
He was never a “one & done” player. Not all 5* guys are Zion, etc. He had a nice year going until he got hurt, missed 2 weeks. Yesterday he was sick. 102 degree fever.
Is that true? He shouldn’t have been playing at all if it is.
 
#13
#13
The biggest reason is he's being asked to do things he's not strong at, and this team has no leader. I 100% believe if Turner had been healthy this year we'd have about 4-5 more wins, if not more. We would have won yesterday, we would have won at SC, we would have beaten TAMU, we may have even beaten UK.

But ifs and buts, and the reality is we don't have Turner. And while I hate beating the dead horse, it is on Barnes that we don't have anyone on the team right now that doesn't lose their s*** under pressure. Turner was that guy.
 
#14
#14
Wasn’t Stokes a 5-star? I’d say he did alright for us.

I also think at least one service had Duke Crews as a 5-star.

I would guess our boom/bust rate on 5-stars is probably around the average; we just haven’t had that many.
 
#15
#15
For JJJ, the ‘19 recruiting class was far from impressive. Most years, he’s probably a mid-tier 4 star. He got very lucky being in on of the thinnest classes in recent memory. He has the tools to develop into a very solid player, but he’s not someone we would be expecting to dominate, had he committed most any other year.
 
#16
#16
After watching another rough night for JJJ, I started thinking about why our recent 5 star players seem to never materialize into the dominate players they are supposed to be.

JJJ looks more like a project than a one-and-done type. Hubbs has a rather unremarkable career. Harris I suppose was the best 5 star we’ve had, but he seems to be the sole example of hype and performance. Hopson has a good career, but I he wasn’t dominating.

Why do you think our 5 star guys seem to struggle so badly compared to those at Duke, Kansas, etc? Not enough quality role players?
Duke, Kansas, etc have a couple of advantages being blue bloods ( not going to make this a cheating thing although that stuff I there).
1) they don’t rely on 1 5-star to ball out because they have six or seven 4-5 stars in the team and when one is struggling, they can rely on a large depth to take them far in games. If you notice those blue bloods rarely have streaks of 2-3 minutes without scoring like we and other teams do

2) they get the benefit of the doubt officiating at home and away that UT never does. Im not saying we lose every game because of the refs but they control the college basketball game flow much more than in any other sport. If we averaged 25 ft a game like they do, even this UT team would have 20 wins already
 
#17
#17
Some fans see 5 star and just think automatically One and Done. Very small percentage of all 5 stars our ready. Richard's from Ky player of the year this year in SEC and top 10 pick has taken 3 years to realize his tools he has. If JJJ is willing to listen and work like Grant Admiral Bone he will have a chance in NBA but at least he will play overseas.
 
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#18
#18
You have to run a system that lets your horses run. Good coaches position and play their best players in a manner that allows their talents to shine. IMO, that’s why Pearl gets a lot from his kids. If you coach uptight, they’re gonna play hesitantly. For me, I wanna see Santi unload those 3balls, not drive to the land of giants and turn it over. I get they’re trying to create an inside out game but forcing it is causing tons of turnovers.

Maybe he is thinking about the future, these guys are young? It's something they must learn and it will pay dividends in the years to come. Getting the ball inside, driving and getting fouled is there every night, 3 point shooting not so much.
 
#19
#19
Honestly there's probably 5-10 5 stars that are "impact" players in year 1.

There's only 10 freshman in the top 150 in scoring.

And let's be honest that's what you're commenting on. James' per games are very solid for a freshman who isn't the feature guy.

7.3 PPG (46th among 2019 class)
5.6 RPG (16th among 2019 class)
2.8 APG (9th among 2019 class)
0.8 SPG (per game rank unavailable, but total numbers he's top 30)
0.9 BPG (per game rank unavailable, but total numbers he's top 25)

So despite missing 4 games he's in the top 30 of every major category among freshman except scoring. Which I just don't think that's what he's being asked to do, coming into the season I'm sure he was 4th or 5th as the "option" to score behind Turner, Bowden, Fulkerson and possibly Pons. With Turner out and Santiago arriving he's still probably the 3rd option at best.
Probably could have stopped right there. James isn't a 5* and never was. Wiseman, Edwards, Anthony, Carey, and Mannion. I may be leaving out 1 or 2 guys, but those are the real 5*s from the 2019 class. Every one of the others all needed a little seasoning.
 
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#20
#20
After watching another rough night for JJJ, I started thinking about why our recent 5 star players seem to never materialize into the dominate players they are supposed to be.

JJJ looks more like a project than a one-and-done type. Hubbs has a rather unremarkable career. Harris I suppose was the best 5 star we’ve had, but he seems to be the sole example of hype and performance. Hopson has a good career, but I he wasn’t dominating.

Why do you think our 5 star guys seem to struggle so badly compared to those at Duke, Kansas, etc? Not enough quality role players?
I get what your talking about. I still do not know why a good coach would not call time out on a Auburn 18 - 0 run. Maybe what your talking about and what i brought up has to do with the head coach.
 
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#21
#21
If you watched JJJ's high school career, you could tell he isn't that killer instinct type of player. This isn't saying I am at all dissatisfied in his play. I think he will take a huge step forward with more talent around him.
 
#22
#22
If you watched JJJ's high school career, you could tell he isn't that killer instinct type of player. This isn't saying I am at all dissatisfied in his play. I think he will take a huge step forward with more talent around him.

We are very seldom going to steal a top 20 5 star player from the blue blood programs and that is fine with me. I would rather have lesser player who plays 90 games than a more skilled kid who plays 30 games. Next years class may change that, in the case of Springer, but that remains to be seen.
 
#23
#23
We are very seldom going to steal a top 20 5 star player from the blue blood programs and that is fine with me. I would rather have lesser player who plays 90 games than a more skilled kid who plays 30 games. Next years class may change that, in the case of Springer, but that remains to be seen.

I understand how you feel, but it would be nice to have a lottery pick type every once in awhile
 
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#24
#24
I understand how you feel, but it would be nice to have a lottery pick type every once in awhile

True, but I don't really feel like Harris is a Vol. Hardly remember him being here at all. Certainly not on my top 10 favorite player list. A team like UK fields every year is not college basketball to me.
 

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