Assisting the Runner Flag

[LT21]

We got called for this on 4th and 4 in the first quarter. We threw the long touchdown right after so it didnt matter, but is that a new rule? Can anyone weigh on why they called it? I was at the game and it was hard to see.

 

[LivinginthePast]

Apparently you can’t pull a runner forward you can only push behind the runner. Olineman was in front of him pulling him forward.

 

[TheVolsFrog]

I'm almost certain we had this called on us before I believe in '22

 

[hillsborovol]

Pulling the runner became a penalty in college football in 1950.

 

[dobre_shunka]

I'm curious why it was 4th and 4 before the penalty then 4th and 6 after. A 2 yard penalty?

 

[Gatlinburgvol]

I'm curious why it was 4th and 4 before the penalty then 4th and 6 after. A 2 yard penalty?

My guess is that it was a 5 yd spot penalty.

 

[Aerie Vol]

It was the right call. 40 years ago the whole “pushing the pile” thing was frequently called to. I like the rugby scrum, let the strongest team win, adjustment to the rule being enforced. But yea, we shouldn’t be grabbing our teammate and dragging him forward.

 

[WillisWG]

Push no pull

ARTICLE 2 a The ball carrier or passer may use their hand or arm to ward off or push opponents RULE 9 / Conduct of Players and others FR-107 b The ball carrier shall not grasp a teammate; and no other teammate shall grasp, pull, or lift the ball carrier to assist in forward progress (AR 9-3-2-I) c Teammates of the ball carrier or passer may interfere with opponents by blocking but shall not use interlocked interference by grasping or encircling one another in any manner while contacting an opponent

 

[Godfatha]

It's one of those calls you see go not-called a lot in those big rugby scrums.

 

[D-Vols]

Pulling the runner became a penalty in college football in 1950.

Back in 1974 Copper Basin High got called on it when our running back broke loose, was stumbling and another player helped him catch his balance while assisting him down the field.

 

[birdie74]

Back in 1974 Copper Basin High got called on it when our running back broke loose, was stumbling and another player helped him catch his balance while assisting him down the field.

I remember watching that game on ESPN

 

[Savannahbayvol]

We got called for this on 4th and 4 in the first quarter. We threw the long touchdown right after so it didnt matter, but is that a new rule? Can anyone weigh on why they called it? I was at the game and it was hard to see.

Tim Irwin said he has played football for 65 years and this was only the second time he has seen it called. Said it was the correct call but the officials didnt have the faintest idea where to spot the ball..

 

[WillisWG]

ND still bemoans the 2005 Bush Push (Bush-Leinart)

 

[DaddyChad]

We got called for this on 4th and 4 in the first quarter. We threw the long touchdown right after so it didnt matter, but is that a new rule? Can anyone weigh on why they called it? I was at the game and it was hard to see.

It’s not new. They never call it.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

We got called for this on 4th and 4 in the first quarter. We threw the long touchdown right after so it didnt matter, but is that a new rule? Can anyone weigh on why they called it? I was at the game and it was hard to see.

You can push but not pull a runner

We pulled and pushed

 

[wmcovol]

ESPN Ref guru & former official Mack Austin said he didn’t know the rule about where the ball was to be spotted.

And we wonder why games get so screwed up with officials

 

[UTFranklinVol]

Even the rules official for ESPN said that technically it was the right call even tho he would not have called it on that play.

 

[MurphyVol]

Tim Irwin said he has played football for 65 years and this was only the second time he has seen it called. Said it was the correct call but the officials didnt have the faintest idea where to spot the ball..

I heard that as well. The "in game rules analyst" or whatever they call the ref that weighs in on the calls said it was correct but he doesn't like to see it called when there is also push involved. He said he'd have kept the flag in his pocket since there were several vols pushing the runner as well.

 

[feathersax]

You can push but not pull a runner

We pulled and pushed

So it's like Doctor Dolittle's critter?

 

[Jackcrevol]

Tim Irwin said he has played football for 65 years and this was only the second time he has seen it called. Said it was the correct call but the officials didnt have the faintest idea where to spot the ball..

Announcers brought in a rules expert. Said it shouldve been a no call bc of so many pushing. What about the defensive holding on Thornton to impede a TD? The no call PI on long pass play on left side in first half? Then the no call horse collar on Squirrel OOB, in 2nd half? Not to mention any holds against our Dline.

But they did manage several offsetting penalties. I dont know what these guys are seeing, we all see it. How can they not?

Fact they cant get ball spotted right tells me all I need to know.

 

[whobethis16]

Announcers brought in a rules expert. Said it shouldve been a no call bc of so many pushing. What about the defensive holding on Thornton to impede a TD? The no call PI on long pass play on left side in first half? Then the no call horse collar on Squirrel OOB, in 2nd half? Not to mention any holds against our Dline.

But they did manage several offsetting penalties. I dont know what these guys are seeing, we all see it. How can they not?

Fact they cant get ball spotted right tells me all I need to know.

"Horse-Collar TackleARTICLE 15. All players are prohibited from grabbing the inside back or side collar of the shoulder pads or jersey, or the nameplate area, and abruptly pulling the ball carrier down. This rule applies to a ball carrier, including a potential passer, who is inside the tackle box." MSU defender's hands were not at any of those spots, so no, it wasn't a horse-collar. Also, that was in the 2nd quarter, not the 2nd half, so if you're going to whine about the details from the officials, maybe have yours correct.

You want what you see to be called? Go out there and call it. Clearly you're just mad they're not calling as you want it to be.

The fact so many people on here didn't even know the pulling of a player is illegal tells me all I need to know about who to listen to. One is just confused because of the rarity, the other is completely oblivious to the rulebook. I'll take the confusion.

 

[Jackcrevol]

"Horse-Collar TackleARTICLE 15. All players are prohibited from grabbing the inside back or side collar of the shoulder pads or jersey, or the nameplate area, and abruptly pulling the ball carrier down. This rule applies to a ball carrier, including a potential passer, who is inside the tackle box." MSU defender's hands were not at any of those spots, so no, it wasn't a horse-collar. Also, that was in the 2nd quarter, not the 2nd half, so if you're going to whine about the details from the officials, maybe have yours correct.

You want what you see to be called? Go out there and call it. Clearly you're just mad they're not calling as you want it to be.

The fact so many people on here didn't even know the pulling of a player is illegal tells me all I need to know about who to listen to. One is just confused because of the rarity, the other is completely oblivious to the rulebook. I'll take the confusion.

Seems like an odd hill to die on, but ok.

Either you are a CFB official, or an MSU Bulldog fan.

I actually did know about the pulling, but had fallen away due to obscurity. Regardless if I had rule book handy at time of play, the fact remains as i'd paraphrased the opinion of the ESPN rules expert. My own is that it's a nothing burger. Fact that they took nearly 5 minutes of time just to decide ball placement, lends to the mountain of evidence that officials are singling out TN to penalize versus other teams.



As far as the horse collar, from the other angle it looked like he was pulled down from back. To me, it was a tweener call. Prob a good no call, i'll grant you.

But the other no call Pass Interference, were total BS. Total BS.

While we arent victims. We certainly get called 2 or 3:1 vs other teams, esp for holding.

 

[allstar34bd]

This may be the one penalty all year that I can’t be upset about. Atleast he was making an effort, didn’t work; but he was trying everything to make that first down happen.

 

[GVF]

Apparently you can’t pull a runner forward you can only push behind the runner. Olineman was in front of him pulling him forward.

That is correct, but that is a long established rule. Always have to push the pile.

 

[KoachKrab127]

I didn’t mind the refs making the call. What drove me crazy was how long of a delay there was after the call. The refs were all standing around because they didn’t know where to spot the ball. Then, right before UT snapped the ball, the ref blows his whistle, picks the ball up, moves it backwards from the 32 yard line to the 34, then resets. I mean seriously. What the heck?!? Why could they not get the original spot correct during that 2-minute delay that just happened? And you know what? I still think they got the spot wrong. If it was supposed to be a 5 yard penalty from the previous spot (which is what the ref analyst said), it should’ve been spotted at the 36. The entire thing was handled so poorly, and I’m so glad we scored a TD on the very next play. Stuff it, refs. You are terrible. The league seriously needs full time officials.