Professional league

[SpaceCoastVol]

I think we all agree that college athletes are professionals at this point. The advantage is mostly to the players however now. I was wondering when that particular wind might change direction. As we have been watching player after player now enter the portal, those decisions to go elsewhere reside mainly with them to the detriment of the team. Personally I think the ones that leave can go F themselves and I hope they never play a down anywhere else. When are the coaches/universities going to have more control over those players? i.e., when will CJH be able to TRADE a player to another university/coach or vice versa? It is becoming painfully obvious that the big money players couldn't give a rat's ass about the university the way most of us did/do... so why should they have as much leverage as they do?

AS a fan of UT football, shouldn't we want our management have some say/leverage as to who stays or goes? Right now it seems that they have very little as evidenced by the sudden departures to the portal. Rather than allow any given player to leave the team in the lurch, why shouldn't the coach be able to trade that player to another university? Will we see contracts with the university going forward? As I see it, right now there is nothing holding them to the deal they made when they take NIL money. How about getting some of that control back?

Thoughts?

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

I think we all agree that college athletes are professionals at this point. The advantage is mostly to the players however now. I was wondering when that particular wind might change direction. As we have been watching player after player now enter the portal, those decisions to go elsewhere reside mainly with them to the detriment of the team. Personally I think the ones that leave can go F themselves and I hope they never play a down anywhere else. When are the coaches/universities going to have more control over those players? i.e., when will CJH be able to TRADE a player to another university/coach or vice versa? It is becoming painfully obvious that the big money players couldn't give a rat's ass about the university the way most of us did/do... so why should they have as much leverage as they do?

AS a fan of UT football, shouldn't we want our management have some say/leverage as to who stays or goes? Right now it seems that they have very little as evidenced by the sudden departures to the portal. Rather than allow any given player to leave the team in the lurch, why shouldn't the coach be able to trade that player to another university? Will we see contracts with the university going forward? As I see it, right now there is nothing holding them to the deal they made when they take NIL money. How about getting some of that control back?

Thoughts?

When they stop having to go to classes and still matriculate academically, we can talk about them being professionals. In the true sense of it, they're still not professionals. Just because they're getting endorsement money doesn't make it so. They're limited on hours of practice. Professional athletes go work on their craft from early morning to late afternoon, daily

 

[MAD]

Players care more about their own interests over the team’s.

I’m wondering how many college football players look at the playoffs as almost a punishment. They see their peers working their future in the portal and trying to enhance what’s best for their NIL while they are still having to play, practice, no real vacation and missing out on a lot of opportunities for up to 4 games. In today’s climate if you don’t win it all it’s been a failed season. The system feels broken and I don’t see any solution of fixing it.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

When they stop having to go to classes and still matriculate academically, we can talk about them being professionals. In the true sense of it, they're still not professionals. Just because they're getting endorsement money doesn't make it so. They're limited on hours of practice. Professional athletes go work on their craft from early morning to late afternoon, daily

Yeah it does. When you are talking about multi million dollar 'endorsement' deals, they are professionals. And there is enough **** academics in college these days that they can continue the facade of student athlete without breaking a sweat. I will concede on the limited hours of practice etc that you mention, but I was not saying they are NFL caliber professional.

If I had $8 million when I was 18 I would never have had to work a day in my life after that.

Edit: I just ran the numbers, and $8M at 5% interest in 45 years will be worth $71M. You can beat the hell out of 5% with a Vanguard index ETF.

 

[Orangepantsforever]

I’d say a high percentage of high profile athletes have hardly ever gone to class, or have taken “classes” that would hardly be considered school. But professional athletes at least have to honor a contract. I’m hoping for a developmental/minor league system. If all you want to do is play ball, go there. Make normal amounts of money, with the possibility to make big bucks. Let the networks get their TV hands on that, and return college to what it once was. Bring down ticket prices, and make it affordable to go to games and just watch football. I’m well old enough to remember not having all games on TV. Worked out well.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

When they stop having to go to classes and still matriculate academically, we can talk about them being professionals. In the true sense of it, they're still not professionals. Just because they're getting endorsement money doesn't make it so. They're limited on hours of practice. Professional athletes go work on their craft from early morning to late afternoon, daily

So when the courts declare them employees of the university, even though the NCAA still insists they be enrolled, how long do you think NCAA will keep enrollment as a stipulation? I'd say until the first lawsuit and court order to stop requiring it until the suit is settled, like the open portal lawsuit, and they'll officially abandon it shortly after.

That's the thread we're hanging by currently.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Yeah it does. When you are talking about multi million dollar 'endorsement' deals, they are professionals. And there is enough **** academics in college these days that they can continue the facade of student athlete without breaking a sweat. I will concede on the limited hours of practice etc that you mention, but I was not saying they are NFL caliber professional.

If I had $8 million when I was 18 I would never have had to work a day in my life after that.

Edit: I just ran the numbers, and $8M at 5% interest in 45 years will be worth $71M. You can beat the hell out of 5% with a Vanguard index ETF.

No, in the true sense, it doesn't. What you would do at 18 is different than what another 18 year old might do who has elite level athletic ability

They're not getting paid for their time in the job. They're getting paid for their name. They don't check a game check. That's a fact.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

So when the courts declare them employees of the university, even though the NCAA still insists they be enrolled, how long do you think NCAA will keep enrollment as a stipulation? I'd say until the first lawsuit and court order to stop requiring it until the suit is settled, like the open portal lawsuit, and they'll officially abandon it shortly after.

That's the thread we're hanging by currently.

Until they get paid for showing up every day and working on their craft 24/7, they're still not like NFL and professional league players. They're getting paid because of their name

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

So when the courts declare them employees of the university, even though the NCAA still insists they be enrolled, how long do you think NCAA will keep enrollment as a stipulation? I'd say until the first lawsuit and court order to stop requiring it until the suit is settled, like the open portal lawsuit, and they'll officially abandon it shortly after.

That's the thread we're hanging by currently.

The best thing in the world that could happen at this point is to have them declared employees of the universities. Then we get them under contract. Then they have to perform to get to the next level and can't opt out or just leave. They would actually have a lot to work for at that point. ANd then who GAS if they go to classes. It's what everybody wants, right? We can get rid of all those meaningless bowls and just focus on the same 20 or so teams every year. Yeah. That will be awesome

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Until they get paid for showing up every day and working on their craft 24/7, they're still not like NFL and professional league players. They're getting paid because of their name

You are picking fly specks out of pepper. Nico won't be paid **** if he were a plumber.

 

[backdoorcutvol]

When they stop having to go to classes and still matriculate academically, we can talk about them being professionals. In the true sense of it, they're still not professionals. Just because they're getting endorsement money doesn't make it so. They're limited on hours of practice. Professional athletes go work on their craft from early morning to late afternoon, daily

Not saying some don’t go to class, when was the last time a player at any P4 school been academically ineligibl?

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

No, in the true sense, it doesn't. What you would do at 18 is different than what another 18 year old might do who has elite level athletic ability

They're not getting paid for their time in the job. They're getting paid for their name. They don't check a game check. That's a fact.

True, because the vast majority of elite athletes are idiots when it comes to money. And I am not sure what you mean by 'their time in the job' They don't punch a clock and if they don't produce to the expected level the gravy train comes to a halt.

 

[Voltopia]

The people pushing for NIL and unlimited movement have essentially said "schools, you can't operate by giving scholarships in exchange for representing the school in sports anymore." So much so that they've completely defanged both the schools and the NCAA.

Here's how I think this would go in a rational world.

1. The schools work with congress to get an anti-trust exemption that allows them to negotiate with a college player's union.
2. The teams and programs become employer/employee relationships.
3. The schools realize that they shouldn't be in the business of running professional sports leagues, and the college teams are spun off and converted to private companies.
4. The private companies attempt to run their new mini-NFL, minus any of the college pageantry or school ties. No more singing the Alma Mater if you get my drift. Why bother?
5. Fans realize that supporting football teams which don't have students and don't have any connection to either student life or scholastic endeavour is really pretty pointless and stupid when you think about it.
6. The whole thing atrophies and dies a slow but certain death as the people who grew up with the old system, uh, you know, pass on.
7. The end.

Meanwhile, the schools revisit running their own college football programs, but with much more stringent and forward-facing frameworks that work to keep revenue at levels reasonable for intercollegiate competition. But that's its own story. A reset if you will. Maybe they'll even get to use the stadiums built by their more financially flush forbears? And play in games without men in red hats, or even set kickoffs. Just college competition again. Who knows. People can dream, I suppose.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Until they get paid for showing up every day and working on their craft 24/7, they're still not like NFL and professional league players. They're getting paid because of their name

Once the courts call them employees, they'll sign contracts and those mutually agreed upon contracts will determine their work hours and requirements. They will unionize, like pros, and collectively bargain for pay, working conditions, etc and one of those conditions they will want lifted is almost certainly mandatory enrollment in school.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

True, because the vast majority of elite athletes are idiots when it comes to money. And I am not sure what you mean by 'their time in the job' They don't punch a clock and if they don't produce to the expected level the gravy train comes to a halt.

You made my point with your last comment. That's what keeps college players from being true professional football players.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

The people pushing for NIL and unlimited movement have essentially said "schools, you can't operate by giving scholarships in exchange for representing the school in sports anymore." So much so that they've completely defanged both the schools and the NCAA.

Here's how I think this would go in a rational world.

1. The schools work with congress to get an anti-trust exemption that allows them to negotiate with a college player's union.
2. The teams and programs become employer/employee relationships.
3. The schools realize that they shouldn't be in the business of running professional sports leagues, and the college football teams are spun off and converted to private companies.
4. The private companies attempt to run their new mini-NFL, minus any of the college pageantry or school ties.
5. Fans realize that supporting football teams which don't have students and don't have any connection to either student life or scholastic endeavour is completely preposterous.
6. The whole thing atrophies and dies a slow but certain death as the people who grew up with the old system, uh, you know, pass on.
7. The end.

LOL I am guessing that your disgust with the way this is going is somewhere on the same plane as mine.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Not saying some don’t go to class, when was the last time a player at any P4 school been academically ineligibl?

You hear more about academic achievement than academic failure

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

You made my point with your last comment. That's what keeps college players from being true professional football players.

I was referring to pros. They are getting paid to perform. At some point, that is how this is going to go down in college. The true fans are already unhappy with the performance of some of these highly paid players.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The people pushing for NIL and unlimited movement have essentially said "schools, you can't operate by giving scholarships in exchange for representing the school in sports anymore." So much so that they've completely defanged both the schools and the NCAA.

Here's how I think this would go in a rational world.

1. The schools work with congress to get an anti-trust exemption that allows them to negotiate with a college player's union.
2. The teams and programs become employer/employee relationships.
3. The schools realize that they shouldn't be in the business of running professional sports leagues, and the college teams are spun off and converted to private companies.
4. The private companies attempt to run their new mini-NFL, minus any of the college pageantry or school ties. No more singing the Alma Mater if you get my drift. Why bother?
5. Fans realize that supporting football teams which don't have students and don't have any connection to either student life or scholastic endeavour is really pretty pointless and stupid when you think about it.
6. The whole thing atrophies and dies a slow but certain death as the people who grew up with the old system, uh, you know, pass on.
7. The end.

Meanwhile, the schools revisit running their own college football programs, but with much more stringent and forward-facing frameworks that work to keep revenue at levels reasonable for intercollegiate competition. But that's its own story. A reset if you will. Maybe they'll even get to use the stadiums built by their more financially flush forbears? And play in games without men in red hats, or even set kickoffs. Just college competition again. Who knows. People can dream, I suppose.

The #1-7 is the way.

The final paragraph is thwarted by #1 and #2. Resetting college football after agreeing to an employer/employee relationship seems impossible. Any restart is bound to the agreement.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

The #1-7 is the way.

The final paragraph is thwarted by #1 and #2. Resetting college football after agreeing to an employer/employee relationship seems impossible. Any restart is bound to the agreement.

Why is it impossible? I think it is essential at this point. Right now it is little better than sandlot pick up ball in a sense as far as building a team goes. The portal must be a nightmare for these coaches when a player can just up and go in the middle of the night.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

I was referring to pros. They are getting paid to perform. At some point, that is how this is going to go down in college. The true fans are already unhappy with the performance of some of these highly paid players.

Yes, I knew that's what you were implying.

What makes you think you have the pulse of true fans? What's your definition of a "true fan" ?

 

[Voltopia]

The #1-7 is the way.

The final paragraph is thwarted by #1 and #2. Resetting college football after agreeing to an employer/employee relationship seems impossible. Any restart is bound to the agreement.

Maybe. Maybe not. If Congress provides laws that allow for athletic scholarships for schools, within certain frameworks, it could be possible. Maybe a situation with strict rules on money and how it's handled, revenue, etc., such as it is. Anything's possible if the laws are made for it. Schools are still offering scholarships for athletics programs, last I checked. If the whole concept of "scholarships in exchange for athetlic performance" is just completely illegal, then every athletic scholarship in existence needs to be revoked, immediately. And maybe that's what it is, maybe the entire concept of athletic scholarships is just bunk now. That's a whole tangle to figure out though, since a lot of those really are boons to the students that accept them. Eh. A bigger ball of wax than I can melt, to be sure.

 

[Wahoooo]

When they stop having to go to classes and still matriculate academically, we can talk about them being professionals. In the true sense of it, they're still not professionals. Just because they're getting endorsement money doesn't make it so. They're limited on hours of practice. Professional athletes go work on their craft from early morning to late afternoon, daily

When is the last time you heard of any football player on a major D1 program being academically ineligible? Are they even required to go to class anymore? If so, do they really need to be working towards a degree or can they take 12 hours of PE classes per semester to stay eligible????

 

[Voltopia]

LOL I am guessing that your disgust with the way this is going is somewhere on the same plane as mine.

Heh. It is a disgust in some ways, true. My reaction is mostly around the mismanagement that got us here, twinged with a lot of "you're going to miss this when it's gone" energy.

I do confess that I get incredibly judgmental about the commercialization of the sport. The canned commercial music overtake the unique stuff the Pride did, the spiraling prices, the synthesized experiences, or even just the ways games used to be run. I'm a bit antiquated in my thinking for some.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Yes, I knew that's what you were implying.

What makes you think you have the pulse of true fans? What's your definition of a "true fan" ?

That is actually a fair question. I can really only speak for myself, but I think money is more a driving factor for many fans than love of the teams/schools. Maybe the definition of a true fan has changed since I was in school.