What is the story with Bill Battle?

[onevol74]

I've heard that he wanted undersized linemen who were faster than the opposing teams linemen. Give me the big uglies who are stronger than the other teams big uglies.

That was the prevailing philosophy at the time because Alabama used smaller and quicker players to defeat Nebraska in the 1967? Sugar Bowl. I think the score was an upset of 35-7.

 

[knox73]

The problem with Battle’s smaller linemen was they were slow and unfortunately not athletic or strong. Alabama, Nebraska and Oklahoma knew what they were trying to do and recruited major talent to their systems, Battle tried the Houston veer a year or 2 and ended up with a poor man’s version of the wishbone. It was an absolute mess. Player evaluations were appalling. Favorite son Johnny Majors whose brother Bobby was a star at Tennessee under Battle was proceeding to build Pitt into a powerhouse at the same time. Anyway a really nice young man realized coaching was not his calling and he went home to Alabama working with Bear’s network and became a really nice rich man. However the Vols paid dearly for Bob Woodruff’s folly with the kid coach and the favorite son could not put Humpty Dumpty back together without blood sweat and tears. To make the drama even better many fans including me despised Doug Dickey who flopped at Florida and as an assistant at Colorado then landed the AD job at Tennessee. But in 1985, Doug’s son Daryl came off the bench and led the Vols to an astounding Sugar Bowl victor that cost Miami and Jimmy Johnson a national championship and Doug was forgiven. Battle continued to somewhat live in infamy until Mike Hamilton hired another kid coach named Kiffin who destroyed what Fulmer built in 11 months and Kiffin is assuredly the most despised man and Bill Battle is off the hook. This is not fair to Battle who is a high character person thrust into a difficult position unlike that scrounging earthworm punk Kiffin who maneuvered his way into his USC dream job and got fired on the tarmac not long after.

 

[Backwards K]

Battle was a good coach but not a good recruiter. Took over the Vols after Dickey had them at the top of the SEC. He won while he was coaching Dickey's talent but didn't bring in enough talent to stay successful. Turned out to be great move for Battle in that he made a lot of money selling college aports apparel

 

[Savannahbayvol]

Thanks for the input It was Fisher and I thought he was from Memphis. Sorry for the error.

No problem, remember sitting in my room at Hess Hall when the news broke. A real tragedy, especially after losing the 3 coaches only 4 months before.

 

[WillisWG]

I don't think he was a good X's and 0's coach. I attended the 1974 game at LSU during his tenure and watched the Vols run the same pass play over and over. We had a 10-0 lead in the second quarter thanks to 4 LSU fumbles, but LSU made the proper adjustment and shut down the one pass play that worked and the Vols didn't threaten to score thereafter. The Vols continued to run the play the second half with poor results and ended up losing. I saw no adjustments from the Vol coaching staff. With Holloway at QB, Larry Seivers and Stanley Morgan at WR, Paul Johnson and Mickey Marvin on the OL, a pretty good Vols roster looked inept vs. a 1-2-1 LSU team that finished 5-5-1. Battle was a fine man, just too inexperienced to be a head coach in the SEC.

Things you remember, that LSU W was only their 2nd win against us. We had installed the veer that year, we really didn't have the backfield to run the veer. Missed a FG in the early 4th that would have tied it then came their long drive and it was pretty much over. Had a late drive but that stalled at their 5. Did not capitalize on their fumbles.

 

[rikberry31]

Dooley or Battle,Who left rocky top in the worst shape ?I don't like ole Butchy but what he got from Dooley was a dumpster fire. Wasn't around in 77. Just wondering what the old head have to say.

Butch inherited a roster that was head and shoulders above the one Majors inherited.

 

[Backwards K]

The 77 roster was not as devoid of talent as Ol Johnny wanted everyone to believe. Had Tim Irwin and Robert Shaw on the OL, Jimmy Streater at QB, Hubert Simpson and Kelsey Finch at RB, Jimmy Noonan was a very good DT and Roland James became an All American in the defensive backfield. I'd say the talent that Butch and Johnny inherited were pretty similar with some very talented skill position players but not much depth at any position especially on both sides of the line of scrimmage. Butch inherited a much tougher schedule tho.

Johnny's biggest problem in his early years was losing to teams he should have beat. This includes some mediocre Ga Tech, & Miss St teams along with head scratchers to the likes of Rutgers and Army. Heck, the Vols only played 6 SEC games back then and they always closed the season with Ole Miss, Kentucky, and Vandy. Johnny only swept those 3 cupcakes once in his first 8 seasons at the helm.

The best thing Johnny accomplished was upgrading the facilities. When he arrived, the football was lifting weights in the hallway b/c the weight room wasn' t big enough. He did a great job of upgrading all of the facilities and finally upgraded the talent enough to compete with the top teams in the SEC.

 

[LAVol1]

Butch inherited a roster that was head and shoulders above the one Majors inherited.

Don't know about head and shoulders. Maybe marginally better. Didn't have a good QB. Had some good linemen and pretty good LB's. But both had to significantly upgrade the roster.

 

[volbound1700]

I am reading the posts. Appreciate it. Another question; it is odd that Battle got fired with a winning record (for example, Dooley, Jones, and Pruitt had far worse records). Was there controversy about his firing? Sounds like there wasn't because Majors was so popular.

Majors got Tennessee back to prominence but it took some time and he was widely inconsistent (winning SEC for example in 1985 but going 5-6 in 1988).

 

[Backwards K]

I am reading the posts. Appreciate it. Another question; it is odd that Battle got fired with a winning record (for example, Dooley, Jones, and Pruitt had far worse records). Was there controversy about his firing? Sounds like there wasn't because Majors was so popular.

Majors got Tennessee back to prominence but it took some time and he was widely inconsistent (winning SEC for example in 1985 but going 5-6 in 1988).

There wasn't a lot of uproar over Battle being fired. He took over the best football program in the SEC after Doug Dickey had built it up. The slide was very pronounced going from 10-1 in 1970 to .500 seasons in 75 & 76. A tie with Vanderbilt in 74, followed by a lost to Vandy in 75 set the table and when the 76 season was underwhelming, everyone in Big Orange Country was ready for Johnny to come marching home. We just didn't expect him to take 8 years to rebuild program.

If Tennessee had hired Johnny Majors when they hired Battle, it would have been a huge success. Majors understood recruiting and there weren't many restrictions in the early 70s. Majors signed about 125 freshmen at Pitt his first year there. He would have done the same thing at UT and the Vols may have challenged Bear Bryant and Alabama for the top sport in the SEC throughout the 70s. By the time Johnny came back home, the talent was way down, the facilities were poor and recruiting was restricted.

 

[ZZ13]

Battle was a good coach but not a good recruiter. Took over the Vols after Dickey had them at the top of the SEC. He won while he was coaching Dickey's talent but didn't bring in enough talent to stay successful. Turned out to be great move for Battle in that he made a lot of money selling college aports apparel

I didn’t think he was a good coach. He was coach my freshman and sophomore years. Moving Stanley Morgan from world class wide receiver to the backfield (in Battles “Tennessee T” offense) and repeatedly running him into the line where he continually amassed sprained ankle after sprained ankle was idiotic. Thus forcing your entire passing game being jump balls to Larry Seivers (let’s face it, Larry was good but could not get open against good to excellent DBs).

 

[Backwards K]

I didn’t think he was a good coach. He was coach my freshman and sophomore years. Moving Stanley Morgan from world class wide receiver to the backfield (in Battles “Tennessee T” offense) and repeatedly running him into the line where he continually amassed sprained ankle after sprained ankle was idiotic. Thus forcing your entire passing game being jump balls to Larry Seivers (let’s face it, Larry was good but could not get open against good to excellent DBs).

Heard Stanley Morgan talk about that at an event in Memphis. He hated playing running back but they didn't have a dynamic running back on the roster. He was the best choice for the team and he was willing to do it. Vols needed to get the ball in his hands more than 5 or 6 receptions a game. As discussed earlier, Battle let the talent level slip very quickly.

 

[WillisWG]

I am reading the posts. Appreciate it. Another question; it is odd that Battle got fired with a winning record (for example, Dooley, Jones, and Pruitt had far worse records). Was there controversy about his firing? Sounds like there wasn't because Majors was so popular.

Majors got Tennessee back to prominence but it took some time and he was widely inconsistent (winning SEC for example in 1985 but going 5-6 in 1988).

Controversy? No not really, “The Legion of the Miserable” had been marching for awhile and the rest of us came to same conclusion that he wasn't the guy to bring the program back.

Frankly, I was surprised when we hired Battle. Dickey had recommended either Jimmy Dunn, his offensive guy or Doug Knotts, his defensive guy for the Head job. He did mention Battle along with other assistants as capable. Majors was mentioned in the newspapers and within a matter of days Iowa State extended Johnny's contract five years. So that ended that. Woodruff passed on Dunn & Knotts, selected Battle. Then Dunn & Knotts followed Dickey to Florida. All quite surprising.

Battle install the veer in 74, Holloway was the perfect QB to do that but we weren't deep enough on RBs to make it work so it sputtered when a back went down. John brought with him his triple option veer and a 5-2 defense. While some say we did have any players when Johnny arrived, I am more of the opinion we did not have the types of players needed to run a triple option nor a 5-2. Our QB didn't fit the veer, so we moved Streater to QB but our backs were good but they weren't great like Tony Dorsett.

Majors first year was filled with turnovers and injuries. Turnovers were so bad I remember Johnny referring to the players as Santa Claus because they gifted the other teams wins. Nobody and I mean nobody thought it would take Majors so long....NOBODY!

 

[volbound1700]

Controversy? No not really, “The Legion of the Miserable” had been marching for awhile and the rest of us came to same conclusion that he wasn't the guy to bring the program back.

Frankly, I was surprised when we hired Battle. Dickey had recommended either Jimmy Dunn, his offensive guy or Doug Knotts, his defensive guy for the Head job. He did mention Battle along with other assistants as capable. Majors was mentioned in the newspapers and within a matter of days Iowa State extended Johnny's contract five years. So that ended that. Woodruff passed on Dunn & Knotts, selected Battle. Then Dunn & Knotts followed Dickey to Florida. All quite surprising.

Battle install the veer in 74, Holloway was the perfect QB to do that but we weren't deep enough on RBs to make it work so it sputtered when a back went down. John brought with him his triple option veer and a 5-2 defense. While some say we did have any players when Johnny arrived, I am more of the opinion we did not have the types of players needed to run a triple option nor a 5-2. Our QB didn't fit the veer, so we moved Streater to QB but our backs were good but they weren't great like Tony Dorsett.

Majors first year was filled with turnovers and injuries. Turnovers were so bad I remember Johnny referring to the players as Santa Claus because they gifted the other teams wins. Nobody and I mean nobody thought it would take Majors so long....NOBODY!

This reminds me of a situation where John Chavis wanted to take over after Kiffin failed. I wonder what that would have looked like instead of Dooley.

 

[Pappy]

He naturally attracted moving vans to his home

 

[WillisWG]

This reminds me of a situation where John Chavis wanted to take over after Kiffin failed. I wonder what that would have looked like instead of Dooley.

Believe you mean Cutcliffe. I would like to the think that Coach Cut would not have made the coaching errors that Dooley did. i.e. too many on the field against LSU, the goof-up against UNC in the bowl

 

[ZZ13]

Heard Stanley Morgan talk about that at an event in Memphis. He hated playing running back but they didn't have a dynamic running back on the roster. He was the best choice for the team and he was willing to do it. Vols needed to get the ball in his hands more than 5 or 6 receptions a game. As discussed earlier, Battle let the talent level slip very quickly.

I would have taken my chances with 5-6 touches down field versus 12-15 runs out of the backfield. I’m guessing that would have been more productive. Of course now, there are a lot more creative ways to more frequently get the ball in space to a dynamic open field runner.

 

[volbound1700]

Believe you mean Cutcliffe. I would like to the think that Coach Cut would not have made the coaching errors that Dooley did. i.e. too many on the field against LSU, the goof-up against UNC in the bowl

Cutcliffe actually got an offer at one point and wanted to stay at Duke. Chavis wanted the job. I can't remember, exactly, which of the openings that both happened with or when they happened off the top of my head.

 

[WillisWG]

Cutcliffe actually got an offer at one point and wanted to stay at Duke. Chavis wanted the job. I can't remember, exactly, which of the openings that both happened with or when they happened off the top of my head.

I don't particularly remember Chavis wanting or asking about the job but he may have. It was messy search bungled by Hamilton.

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[Jax_Vol]

I am reading the posts. Appreciate it. Another question; it is odd that Battle got fired with a winning record (for example, Dooley, Jones, and Pruitt had far worse records). Was there controversy about his firing? Sounds like there wasn't because Majors was so popular.

Majors got Tennessee back to prominence but it took some time and he was widely inconsistent (winning SEC for example in 1985 but going 5-6 in 1988).

No controversy on that one. Johnny was fresh off winning a national championship with an undefeated team at Pittsburgh. Most fans were very pleased that he would come home to take over a big mess. It doesn't work that way very often.

Thought of that scenario this winter when Harbough left Michigan after winning a national championship.

 

[onevol74]

Johnny left the Pitt fully loaded for Sherrill.

 

[VFL1953]

I don't remember which particular establishment it was (The Last Lap maybe?). But I'll never forget the marquee out on Cumberland Avenue.........."You can't win the war until you lose the Battle".