Rick Barnes is 7-2 in the NCAAT the last three years but

[vol94]

Yep, 1985. Georgetown had beaten Villanova three times already, although all were close games. It took Villanova shooting 22 for 28 from the field that game - 79% - to finally do it. G-town shot 55% that night. Another crazy stat is there were only 31 rebounds in the entire game since so few shots were missed.

@ Vols calls, i enjoy tour comments. Even i disagree, i enjoy your perspective.

Keep posting

 

[vol94]

Yep, 1985. Georgetown had beaten Villanova three times already, although all were close games. It took Villanova shooting 22 for 28 from the field that game - 79% - to finally do it. G-town shot 55% that night. Another crazy stat is there were only 31 rebounds in the entire game since so few shots were missed.

They slowed down the game, and iirc, one of their players admitted being high on coke.

I was a huge UNC fan and despised UVA, Georgetown, and Duke. I still dislike those Teams, esp. Duke.

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

I didn't mean dislike the man. I meant dislike the idea of him as our coach.

First it was that he was washed up.
Then it was that he's coasting to retirement.
Then it was he can't recruit.
Then it was he can't win with his style.
Then it was he can't win in the postseason.
Now it's he can't make a F4.

Many of those who never liked the hire are just too stubborn to come off the idea and admit he's done a great job. They constantly move the goalpost to define success. Has he reached the pinnacle of success? No, but very few do and he's been the best coach Tennessee has ever had and has done things we've never seen. And he's done it with grace and class.

Rick was a rare hire that we have made that I was enthusiastically in favor of when it happened. I thought hiring a guy whose personal resume matched or exceeded our all time resume was a no brainer. He has exceeded my expectations though, even as someone who was on board with the hire from day 1.

That being said, people doubting his ability to win in the postseason is not just an example of Tennessee fans being too negative or of Tennessee fans not wanting to admit they were wrong or what have you. That’s a narrative that has plagued him for a long time, even before he came to Tennessee. It’s something that non-Tennessee fans and even national media have talked about for a long time. So I just don’t think it makes a lot of sense to paint this as an “ungrateful, dumb Vol fans” issue that was conjured up by people with an agenda when it is something that followed him here and something that he hasn’t totally dispelled yet, although his March results are now as strong or stronger than any coach’s that we have had here, and thus shouldn’t be held against him in terms of ranking Tennessee coaches.

 

[VolCalls]

They slowed down the game, and iirc, one of their players admitted being high on coke.

I was a huge UNC fan and despised UVA, Georgetown, and Duke. I still dislike those Teams, esp. Duke.

I think Gary McLain was the one with a coke habit at the time. I sometimes confuse he and his backcourt mate Dwayne McClain. I remember Harold Jensen coming off the bench that game and going 5-5 from both the field and the FT line for 15 points - he was barely averaging 4 ppg on the season.

 

[walkenvol]

No perfect coaches out there - they all have some kind of warts. I can say confidently that there’s no other basketball coach I would rather of had leading the VOLS for the last 10 years. His balance of winning along with assembling a group of young men who represent the university with class makes him the top of my list. JMO

 

[VolCalls]

I appreciate that. I’ve been a student of the game since I was a kid. If I come across as anal or arrogant when it comes to stats, dates, bracketing principles, etc. it’s not to come across as a know-it-all, it’s only to set the record straight.

 

[cncchris33]

Rick was a rare hire that we have made that I was enthusiastically in favor of when it happened. I thought hiring a guy whose personal resume matched or exceeded our all time resume was a no brainer. He has exceeded my expectations though, even as someone who was on board with the hire from day 1.

That being said, people doubting his ability to win in the postseason is not just an example of Tennessee fans being too negative or of Tennessee fans not wanting to admit they were wrong or what have you. That’s a narrative that has plagued him for a long time, even before he came to Tennessee. It’s something that non-Tennessee fans and even national media have talked about for a long time. So I just don’t think it makes a lot of sense to paint this as an “ungrateful, dumb Vol fans” issue that was conjured up by people with an agenda when it is something that followed him here and something that he hasn’t totally dispelled yet, although his March results are now as strong or stronger than any coach’s that we have had here, and thus shouldn’t be held against him in terms of ranking Tennessee coaches.

It seems like you're overthinking my original post which was aimed at those who didn't like the Barnes hire from the jump and continue moving the goalposts every time he unchecks one of their boxes for disliking him as the hire 10 years ago.

He isn't perfect and he makes mistakes. His postseason record in his final Texas years and in a few of his Tennessee years has left something to be desired. But some never gave him a chance and in their effort to just "be right" about it, they still examine his flaws thru a microscope. That major flaw currently happens to be the evasive Final Four at Tennessee. I have no doubt that once that milestone is (hopefully) achieved, the target will either shift once again to the next milestone he hasn't obtained, or somehow else be qualified (easy path, generational player, etc).

 

[StickMan]

I've been waiting all year for Igor to step up. Sadly, still waiting,,,,,,,

As a scorer, yes, he's been a bit of a disappointment. But he has contributed in other ways, mainly as our best rebounder.

 

[The Dog]

I think Gary McLain was the one with a coke habit at the time. I sometimes confuse he and his backcourt mate Dwayne McClain. I remember Harold Jensen coming off the bench that game and going 5-5 from both the field and the FT line for 15 points - he was barely averaging 4 ppg on the season.

Yeah, I read that SI article, had to be around 15. Btw, it was the first Final 4 game against Memphis, McLain said he was high, iIrc. He also said, he was right behind Ronald Reagan at the White House visit and thought, if I just slap him in the back of the head, I would start a world-wide incident. Cocaine is a hell of drug

 

[StickMan]

Can anybody really beat Duke , the answer is NO! Everybody just enjoy the ride . And hope, and it is a serious HOPE that Duke shoots 30% and somehow gets knocked out. There is always one team that is just better than everybody else.

Duke is very good, but they are nowhere near unbeatable, in my view. They have probably the best freshman duo in the country, but I believe Florida, Auburn and Alabama are all deeper.

 

[05_never_again]

Duke is very good, but they are nowhere near unbeatable, in my view. They have probably the best freshman duo in the country, but I believe Florida, Auburn and Alabama are all deeper.

Not Bama, but UF and Auburn are.

 

[05_never_again]

Well Texas still hasn’t replaced him. Tennessee isn’t a rich program historically. Barnes is the best coach in Tennessee history.

This is ultimately why most of the critiques Rick gets are kind of ridiculous. I could get on board with some of them if Tennessee had a rich basketball history with multiple national titles or a bunch of trips to the FF/EE.

I think many lose sight of the fact that Tennessee has only been to 2 EEs in our history, and Rick took us to one of them. We've only won one SECT since 1979, and that was from Rick. Of our 11 Sweet 16 appearances, 6 of them have occurred just since 2010. We didn't even make the NCAAT from 1989 to 1998 and then again from 2000 to 2006. We've never won a title or been to a FF. Historically speaking Tennessee is not a particularly accomplished basketball program.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

It seems like you're overthinking my original post which was aimed at those who didn't like the Barnes hire from the jump and continue moving the goalposts every time he unchecks one of their boxes for disliking him as the hire 10 years ago.

He isn't perfect and he makes mistakes. His postseason record in his final Texas years and in a few of his Tennessee years has left something to be desired. But some never gave him a chance and in their effort to just "be right" about it, they still examine his flaws thru a microscope. That major flaw currently happens to be the evasive Final Four at Tennessee. I have no doubt that once that milestone is (hopefully) achieved, the target will either shift once again to the next milestone he hasn't obtained, or somehow else be qualified (easy path, generational player, etc).

My problem is Barnes is dragged for his postseason results while other coaches that will remain nameless are praised whose own postseason records aren't exactly great.

Also while I do think Barnes' poststeason results are fair game to criticize, I also think it's fair to push back and judge him against UT coaches in that regard and by that measure he's done quite well.

 

[The Dog]

My problem is Barnes is dragged for his postseason results while other coaches that will remain nameless are praised whose own postseason records aren't exactly great.

Also while I do think Barnes' poststeason results are fair game to criticize, I also think it's fair to push back and judge him against UT coaches in that regard and by that measure he's done quite well.

When we win Friday to go to back to back Elite 8s, that should quiet some people. That Final 4's coming, also. Even, if they don't, 3 straight Sweet 16s are another first at Tennessee

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

This is ultimately why most of the critiques Rick gets are kind of ridiculous. I could get on board with some of them if Tennessee had a rich basketball history with multiple national titles or a bunch of trips to the FF/EE.

I think many lose sight of the fact that Tennessee has only been to 2 EEs in our history, and Rick took us to one of them. We've only won one SECT since 1979, and that was from Rick. Of our 11 Sweet 16 appearances, 6 of them have occurred just since 2010. We didn't even make the NCAAT from 1989 to 1998 and then again from 2000 to 2006. We've never won a title or been to a FF. Historically speaking Tennessee is not a particularly accomplished basketball program.

It was somewhat accomplished until the farce of that 1989-1998 stretch. Doug Dickey not giving a damn either

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

My problem is Barnes is dragged for his postseason results while other coaches that will remain nameless are praised whose own postseason records aren't exactly great.

Also while I do think Barnes' poststeason results are fair game to criticize, I also think it's fair to push back and judge him against UT coaches in that regard and by that measure he's done quite well.

I think the difference between the way Pearl’s postseason resume is viewed and the way Rick’s is viewed is twofold. First, Rick had that reputation of choking in March before coming here. Bruce had never been at a big program but already had a Sweet 16 under his belt.

Secondly, Pearl got here and made the tournament all 6 years, with 2 of those years ending in the Sweet 16 and 1 ending in our first Elite 8. Rick’s resume didn’t look as good here because he missed the tournament his first two years, and he only had 4 tournament wins with one trip past the first weekend in his first 7 seasons at UT. At this point now though, his tournament resume at UT is probably better than what Pearl did here and would move into a tier of its own if he can win Friday.

 

[cncchris33]

My problem is Barnes is dragged for his postseason results while other coaches that will remain nameless are praised whose own postseason records aren't exactly great.

Also while I do think Barnes' poststeason results are fair game to criticize, I also think it's fair to push back and judge him against UT coaches in that regard and by that measure he's done quite well.

I agree. And I'm fine with questioning the postseason results. It's been fair game as far as I'm concerned, but that wick is getting short. Three S16s in a row with an E8 mixed in is pretty unprecedented at Tennessee. We aren't Duke, we aren't UNC, we aren't Kansas. That being the expectation isn't really logical.

 

[lawgator1]

These standards are so unfair. Even for the blue bloods it is difficult to make an S16. An FF is superb.

 

[vol94]

I think Gary McLain was the one with a coke habit at the time. I sometimes confuse he and his backcourt mate Dwayne McClain. I remember Harold Jensen coming off the bench that game and going 5-5 from both the field and the FT line for 15 points - he was barely averaging 4 ppg on the season.

Iirc, Nova played a flawless game for the most part.

 

[vol94]

It was somewhat accomplished until the farce of that 1989-1998 stretch. Doug Dickey not giving a damn either

Yeah, the word basketball wasn’t in Dickey’s vocabulary.

IMO, I don’t think Dickey felt it was possible to win in two sports. The early 90s teams were so bad - horrible to watch. I went to one game as a student.

I think it was 1993 as we beat KY.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Yeah, the word basketball wasn’t in Dickey’s vocabulary.

IMO, I don’t think Dickey felt it was possible to win in two sports. The early 90s teams were so bad - horrible to watch. I went to one game as a student.

I think it was 1993 as we beat KY.

The football team was rolling, generating lots of wins AND big time revenue. Not sure it's absolutely true, but there was the story Dickey didn't didn't like the attention Mears was getting for success with basketball team while he was football coach and having big time success too. Mears coined the phrase, "Big Orange Country" and was recognized for it. Dickey didn't like it which seemingly was about the time he took the Florida job in secret after the end of the 69 regular season. We were 10-1, after the Jackson Massacre. We played FLORIDA in the freaking Gator bowl, with Dickey coaching after accepting the FLORIDA job. Not everyone was happy when he got the AD job here

His antics while leaving us for another program were at least as shady as Kiffin's were when he left. The difference? No social media in 1969. Maybe worse

 

[KTrain]

I think one of the things that makes it tough is that when we've had the teams to make that Final Four run we haven't really gotten lucky in terms of the draw. Last year's squad was good enough and if we'd gotten Alabama's draw we'd have made it. But we didn't. We got Purdue and Edey, and that was going to be tough for anyone other than UCONN. This year if we manage to get past the Sweet 16 it's likely to be Houston, who is also elite. That makes it a taller order than drawing, say, Clemson.

The one year I really felt we could've made it under Barnes was 2018 when we were upset by Loyola. If we'd avoided that upset we really did have a favorable path.

2018 Kyle getting hurt & missing the Loyola game cost us Fulky played OK as his replacement but was a young RS Freshman. We win that and If K Alexander played, you're right we had the path.

 

[wmcovol]

Yeah, the word basketball wasn’t in Dickey’s vocabulary.

IMO, I don’t think Dickey felt it was possible to win in two sports. The early 90s teams were so bad - horrible to watch. I went to one game as a student.

I think it was 1993 as we beat KY.

I believe Dickey wanted a winning program (he liked the $) but he couldn’t pick out a coach to save his like. Lamar Alexander hired Wade Houston after Pat Kennedy (Dickey’s choice) used them for a raise at Fla State.

After Houston, Dickey hired Kevin ONeil who was hot choice after making E8 at Marquette but KO turned out to be his biggest problem. The guy could coach but he couldn’t keep a job. Then Dickey screwed up the Kevin Stallings hire (he’d been better than Jerry Green). Last, Dickey asked Joe Dean in 2001 who was the best young coach when he fired Green. Dean told him Buzz Peterson (I’ll assume with a straight face). The ridiculous hires after than were by other ADs.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I believe Dickey wanted a winning program (he liked the $) but he couldn’t pick out a coach to save his like. Lamar Alexander hired Wade Houston after Pat Kennedy (Dickey’s choice) used them for a raise at Fla State.

After Houston, Dickey hired Kevin ONeil who was hot choice after making E8 at Marquette but KO turned out to be his biggest problem. The guy could coach but he couldn’t keep a job. Then Dickey screwed up the Kevin Stallings hire (he’d been better than Jerry Green). Last, Dickey asked Joe Dean in 2001 who was the best young coach when he fired Green. Dean told him Buzz Peterson (I’ll assume with a straight face). The ridiculous hires after than were by other ADs.

One clarification. O’Neill lost the Sweet 16 game to Duke and just missed the EE in 1994. But he beat KY the previous weekend to get to the Sweet 16. That sealed the deal for UT fans wanting KO to be hired. It was pretty much known that UT was going to hire him while Marquette played in Knoxville during that regional. And Cuonzo was on Purdue’s roster on the other side of the bracket. Duke beat two future UT coaches at the TBA that weekend. Purdue beat Kansas to reach the finals.

Dickey also wanted Leonard Hamilton instead of Wade Houston. Lamar Alexander did in fact force Wade on UT fans and DA Dickey. Everybody at UT wanted Pat Kennedy in 1989. He was the hottest name in college basketball as a possible hire that year.

Who was it that Dickey took the call from when he was at Stallings’ house while trying to close that deal? Stallings overheard the conversation and then told Dickey to kick rocks.

 

[05_never_again]

When we win Friday to go to back to back Elite 8s, that should quiet some people. That Final 4's coming, also. Even, if they don't, 3 straight Sweet 16s are another first at Tennessee

Honestly, there is a set of people that won't stop chirping until he makes a FF or maybe even wins a national title. Even then, the narrative at that point would become "...but he only made one FF at Tennessee!"