“It’s the end of the World as we Know it!”, Global Warming? Yes, but not man Made?

#1
OrangeEmpire

OrangeEmpire

The White Debonair
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Nov 28, 2005
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#1
First the UN says that we are all going to die.

Climate change means hunger and thirst for billions: report

Or at least be very thirsty

Billions of people will suffer water shortages and the number of hungry will grow by hundreds of millions by 2080 as global temperatures rise, scientists warn in a new report.

The report estimates that between 1.1 billion and 3.2 billion people will be suffering from water scarcity problems by 2080 and between 200 million and 600 million more people will be going hungry.
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While some, agreeing that the earth is warming say it all natural.

Two New Books Confirm Global Warming is Natural; Not Caused By Human Activity

Two powerful new books say today’s global warming is due not to human activity but primarily to a long, moderate solar-linked cycle. Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1500 Years, by physicist Fred Singer and economist Dennis Avery was released just before Christmas. The Chilling Stars: A New Theory of Climate Change, by Danish physicist Henrik Svensmark and former BBC science writer Nigel Calder (Icon Books), is due out in March.

Singer and Avery note that most of the earth’s recent warming occurred before 1940, and thus before much human-emitted CO2. Moreover, physical evidence shows 600 moderate warmings in the earth’s last million years. The evidence ranges from ancient Nile flood records, Chinese court documents and Roman wine grapes to modern spectral analysis of polar ice cores, deep seabed sediments, and layered cave stalagmites.

Unstoppable Global Warming shows the earth’s temperatures following variations in solar intensity through centuries of sunspot records, and finds cycles of sun-linked isotopes in ice and tree rings. The book cites the work of Svensmark, who says cosmic rays vary the earth’s temperatures by creating more or fewer of the low, wet clouds that cool the earth. It notes that global climate models can’t accurately register cloud effects.

The Chilling Stars relates how Svensmark’s team mimicked the chemistry of earth’s atmosphere, by putting realistic mixtures of atmospheric gases into a large reaction chamber, with ultraviolet light as a stand-in for the sun. When they turned on the UV, microscopic droplets—cloud seeds—started floating through the chamber.

“We were amazed by the speed and efficiency with which the electrons [generated by cosmic rays] do their work of creating the building blocks for the cloud condensation nuclei,” says Svensmark.

The Chilling Stars documents how cosmic rays amplify small changes in the sun’s irradiance fourfold, creating 1-2 degree C cycles in earth’s temperatures: Cosmic rays continually slam into the earth’s atmosphere from outer space, creating ion clusters that become seeds for small droplets of water and sulfuric acid. The droplets then form the low, wet clouds that reflect solar energy back into space. When the sun is more active, it shields the earth from some of the rays, clouds wane, and the planet warms.

Unstoppable Global Warming documents the reality of a moderate, natural, 1500-year climate cycle on the earth. The Chilling Stars explains the why and how.
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While others try and convince us it’s all our fault…

A NEW worldwide movement backed by celebrities, musicians, politicians and business leaders is aiming to reverse the effects of global warming over the next decade.

Global Cool launched in London and LA today and is calling on one billion people to reduce their carbon emissions by just one tonne a year, for the next 10 years.

Boffins have found the climatic tipping point - when the climate becomes irreversibly damaged - can be turned back if global CO2 emissions are reduced by one billion tonnes a year.

Campaigners then hope cleaner, renewable energy sources such as solar, wind, water and hydrogen would have been developed.

Big names including Leonardo Di Caprio, Orlando Bloom, KT Tunstall, Pink, The Killers, Razorlight and Josh Hartnett have thrown their weight behind the worldwide effort to beat climate change.
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So let’s see… physicist Fred Singer, or Orlando Bloom?

Thoughts?
 
#3
#3
I'll believe Hollywood is serious about this when they stop Ben Affleck from starring in another movie. Or when they stop driving a Prius to their private jet.
 
#5
#5
Great article and I think that makes much more sense than what we're being fed right now.
 
#6
#6
From the short blurb, I can't find any faults with what he is saying. But, we all know that the earth has seen periods of warming and cooling over the years - I guess this gives a reason. What I am worried about more is what effects increasing CO2 concentration will have on the natural cycles - how much higher will the "highs" be?

Also, I don't know what wavelength the reflected light from these "low-lying clouds" is or how effective they are at reflecting light as compared to CO2. The reason I say this is that the wavelength of energy from the sun can pass through CO2 on the way to the earth..the problem (I believe) is that as it is radiated back by the earth - the wavelength changes and CO2 now traps it in (of course, some escapes .... as it is not a 100% reflector). My question is how much energy loss is incurred after reflecting off of these "low-lying" clouds, what is the wavelength, and would CO2 reflect it back to the earth at a greater rate than the clouds reflect it back to space. I'm not taking a stance here...just wondering what the case is....
 
#7
#7
TennTradition said:
From the short blurb, I can't find any faults with what he is saying. But, we all know that the earth has seen periods of warming and cooling over the years - I guess this gives a reason. What I am worried about more is what effects increasing CO2 concentration will have on the natural cycles - how much higher will the "highs" be?

Also, I don't know what wavelength the reflected light from these "low-lying clouds" is or how effective they are at reflecting light as compared to CO2. The reason I say this is that the wavelength of energy from the sun can pass through CO2 on the way to the earth..the problem (I believe) is that as it is radiated back by the earth - the wavelength changes and CO2 now traps it in (of course, some escapes .... as it is not a 100% reflector). My question is how much energy loss is incurred after reflecting off of these "low-lying" clouds, what is the wavelength, and would CO2 reflect it back to the earth at a greater rate than the clouds reflect it back to space. I'm not taking a stance here...just wondering what the case is....
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All legit questions. I'm sure there's no harm in reducing carbon emissions (since they've been much lower in the past). Efforts to reduce fossil fuel consumption make sense for a variety of reasons. It's when we see these issues driving drastic legislation --- well, to me that's as troubling as the GW phenom. itself.
 
#8
#8
volinbham said:
It's when we see these issues driving drastic legislation --- well, to me that's as troubling as the GW phenom. itself.
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It has occured to me that it may just be the height of human arrogance to even think it is in our power to fix this.

You hear things like, if we can go to the moon we can find a way to solve this... says who?

This may be one of those things like a timing belt on your car, by the time you find out it needs replacing, the whole damn engine is shot to hell. New engines can be bought, new earth's are a little tougher to come by.
 
#11
#11
orange+white=heaven said:
It has occured to me that it may just be the height of human arrogance to even think it is in our power to fix this.

You hear things like, if we can go to the moon we can find a way to solve this... says who?

This may be one of those things like a timing belt on your car, by the time you find out it needs replacing, the whole damn engine is shot to hell. New engines can be bought, new earth's are a little tougher to come by.
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One of my profs this past semester actually said that he thinks it is too late. He doesn't see us finding a solution in time or at all that can really fix the problem...he is just waiting to see what the consequences will be. But, cutting back on emissions at least gives us a better chance *if* the consequences are severe, in my opinion. A lot of people value his opinion...but not everyone, for sure. I'm some where in the middle...but generally...he knows what he is talking about when it comes to energy related issues.
 
#12
#12
orange+white=heaven said:
It has occured to me that it may just be the height of human arrogance to even think it is in our power to fix this.

You hear things like, if we can go to the moon we can find a way to solve this... says who?

This may be one of those things like a timing belt on your car, by the time you find out it needs replacing, the whole damn engine is shot to hell. New engines can be bought, new earth's are a little tougher to come by.
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Interesting point. Man has been attempting to triumph over nature since his beginning. Usually, we fail in the long run.

Forest fires are a natural restorative process yet no one wants one near them!
 
#13
#13
TennTradition said:
One of my profs this past semester actually said that he thinks it is too late. He doesn't see us finding a solution in time or at all that can really fix the problem...he is just waiting to see what the consequences will be. But, cutting back on emissions at least gives us a better chance *if* the consequences are severe, in my opinion. A lot of people value his opinion...but not everyone, for sure. I'm some where in the middle...but generally...he knows what he is talking about when it comes to energy related issues.
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Just curious if he has scientific data to back his views up or if they are just his opinion.

For something as important as this, I hope we are making decisions based on reliable scientific data.
 
#14
#14
volinbham said:
Just curious if he has scientific data to back his views up or if they are just his opinion.

For something as important as this, I hope we are making decisions based on reliable scientific data.
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Yeah. The comment was certainly made in passing (in the context of capture and sequestration technologies). It was funny...when he made the comment he framed it very carefully...acknowledging how many unknowns there are.

But, I agree. Decisions would have to be made on reliable scientific data, if available. If I had to guess, I would say that this is his opinion based on the science he is familiar with - but dispensed with the disclaimer that he could be, and hopes that he is, wrong.
 
#15
#15
"the UN"

Now there is a real bunch of Third World money grabbers. If we walked--the UN would deflate.

UN =
bored1.gif
 
#16
#16
What if global warming is simply the Earth's own way of beginning another ice age, or at least cooling? everyone is familiar with the Gulf stream. It runs from the equator in the Gulf of Mexico where it gathers heat, then it actually supplies heat and keeps Great Britain warm. It then continues north until it goes deep and cools off due to increased salinity and cooler, denser waters where a conveyor effect takes place and the cool water makes its way back south. I found a great article that describes an ice age in the making whose foundation is being laid by what else? Global warming. As fresh water is being fed into the gulf stream in the north by rivers in Siberia and melting ice sheets in Greenland, the salinity which causes the stream to convey and continue its cycle is being diluted (a fact). Scientists expect this to cause disruption in the heat provided to the climate in GB which could have a global cooling effect that is far greater than global warming:

BBC - Science & Nature - Horizon - Big Chill
 
#17
#17
J.Quest said:
What if global warming is simply the Earth's own way of beginning another ice age, or at least cooling? everyone is familiar with the Gulf stream. It runs from the equator in the Gulf of Mexico where it gathers heat, then it actually supplies heat and keeps Great Britain warm. It then continues north until it goes deep and cools off due to increased salinity and cooler, denser waters where a conveyor effect takes place and the cool water makes its way back south. I found a great article that describes an ice age in the making whose foundation is being laid by what else? Global warming. As fresh water is being fed into the gulf stream in the north by rivers in Siberia and melting ice sheets in Greenland, the salinity which causes the stream to convey and continue its cycle is being diluted (a fact). Scientists expect this to cause disruption in the heat provided to the climate in GB which could have a global cooling effect that is far greater than global warming:

BBC - Science & Nature - Horizon - Big Chill
Click to expand...

I've heard this discussed, but usually in the context of ocean circulation in the atlantic...not the entire gulf stream. I went to a panel discussion here at school a few weeks ago by some of our leading climate scientists who discussed this. They posed the idea of a conveyor or Gulf Stream shut down as "very" unlikely...but did say that some smaller convective currents could certainly be diminished or shut down. But, I don't remember enough of their points to argue anything (and they didn't really have time to give facts so that I could argue the point...). I know that they did say that there is a lot of misunderstanding when people talk about ocean circulation and climate change.
 
#18
#18
J.Quest said:
What if global warming is simply the Earth's own way of beginning another ice age, or at least cooling? everyone is familiar with the Gulf stream. It runs from the equator in the Gulf of Mexico where it gathers heat, then it actually supplies heat and keeps Great Britain warm. It then continues north until it goes deep and cools off due to increased salinity and cooler, denser waters where a conveyor effect takes place and the cool water makes its way back south. I found a great article that describes an ice age in the making whose foundation is being laid by what else? Global warming. As fresh water is being fed into the gulf stream in the north by rivers in Siberia and melting ice sheets in Greenland, the salinity which causes the stream to convey and continue its cycle is being diluted (a fact). Scientists expect this to cause disruption in the heat provided to the climate in GB which could have a global cooling effect that is far greater than global warming:

BBC - Science & Nature - Horizon - Big Chill
Click to expand...

I want to add to my earlier post that I don't see anything glaringly wrong with what this guy is saying - just that I have heard someone contradict that line of thought in the past few weeks (but granted..they didn't give me a whole lot of facts).

One thing I would like to say, though, is would this actually plummit us into an ice age. The conveyor is just good for distributing the heat on earth...not warming the earth, no? If it shuts down, that just means GB + Scandanivia gets much colder and the tropics get even warmer as they are no longer getting this cooler water coming from the north. I don't see how this would affect the global average temperature...just local temperatures.
 
#19
#19
Isn't this the plot for a Jake Gyllenhal movie? and I don't mean "brokeback mountain"
 
#20
#20
Your tax money to solve ALLEGED "global warming"

money_down_drain-704115.jpg


Programs like this help solidify the Republican effort.
 
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