13 - Trillion that is.

#3
#3
How's this for leadership?

t's not often that President Obama mentions the debt, but 90 minutes before the latest number was posted, it was part of his speech on the economy delivered at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh.

He was making the case that the record high federal deficits on his watch were not really his fault.

Mr. Obama says that if these were "ordinary times," he would have acted more aggressively to reduce the annual federal deficits.
 
#6
#6
How's this for leadership?

yeah because the healthcare bill was all about economic stimulus. i particurally like the fact that the BLS is clearly leaking the job reports to the president which is 100% illegal. biden just last night said that the jobs report would be much better than expected. how does he know that exactly?
 
#7
#7
Glad to know my life savings are soon to be worthless, when someone calls in this debt.
 
#11
#11
Sure.

And I agree the debt is too high.

However, I think we also need to keep it in perspective to our ability to repay it. A guy who makes 100,000 a year can service 10,000 in debt whereas to someone making only 25,000 that would be very difficult.
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#12
#12
well we'd be the equivalent of the guy making $100k a year with $90k worth of debt. not exactly firm footing.
 
#18
#18
It's amazing to consider that if Bill Gates were to donate all his wealth to the national debt is would only stall it growing for about 2 weeks.
 
#21
#21
well we'd be the equivalent of the guy making $100k a year with $90k worth of debt. not exactly firm footing.

A guy with 100k income and 90k debt will be able to allocate that portion of his income necessary to pay off his debt in a reasonable time (10 years?) But how is he going to do it? By either making personal spending decisions to allocate more income to paying off the debt, or grow his way out of his debt by raising his income so that his debt payments represent are a smaller percentage of income. Our government can't do either.

Spending wise, what is congress going to cut? If it's an individual with debt, there's lots of things to cut: drive a less expensive car, live in a cheaper apartment, go out less, stop tithing, stop giving to charity, pick up a second job, borrow interest free from a relative to pay off interest-bearing debt, etc. Individual debt is so much easier to pay off because it's a single person making individual choices. Also, there's bankruptcy if it came down to it. Sure there would be the stigma of being a bankrupt and a hit on the credit score, but that would be after a single person weighs the options and chooses the most personally preferential way to pay off the debt.

What can our gov't do to pay off our debt? Raise taxes, which would impede future growth, cut spending, which is politically unfeasible (at least to the extent necessary to pay off the debt), inflate our way out (which will hurt both individuals with assets as well as future investment), or sell off assets (what are we really going to sell? Apart from federal lands which might garner a trillion). Raise taxes and 50% of voters are against it (ignoring whatever economic effect). And what can be cut? Military? Probably but there are political consequences to that. Medicare and SS? Sure, it could be cut, but again with severe political repercussions. Homeland Security? Education? Dept. of the interior? FAA? FDA? FCA? What can realistically be cut to apply to our debt? A single individual would quickly decide what to cut based on individual preferences, but our political system cannot act as an individual.

A recent grad that grows his way out of debt is able to do so precisely because he doesn't have high overhead coming out of school. I have a friend who is 150k in debt, but his salary is 150k a year. He's able to pay off his debt because his non-debt expenditures are going to be far less than that salary. But with our gov't, there's no politically feasible way to pay off that debt. We're spending more than we're taking in, unlike a recent grad, or a person with 100k income and 90k debt. We're taking in 150k a year and spending 200k, without the ability to make the personal choices necessary to service that debt. That's the problem. And of course everyone has their own answers. If it was me I would lay a 10% cut in spending across the board, political consequences be damned, but I'm not in washington, and I don't have to worry about being re-elected or politicking to get my personal preferences enacted. And, there is no bankruptcy option for our gov't. Sure, the EU can bail out Greece, and the US if needed could even bail out CA or NY, but at some point it all has to be paid or the crap hits the fan.
 
#22
#22
You're going to need one helluva scarecrow when starvation sets in on the city folk. :muahaha:

A scarecrow with a shot gun?







A guy with 100k income and 90k debt will be able to allocate that portion of his income necessary to pay off his debt in a reasonable time (10 years?) But how is he going to do it? By either making personal spending decisions to allocate more income to paying off the debt, or grow his way out of his debt by raising his income so that his debt payments represent are a smaller percentage of income. Our government can't do either.

Spending wise, what is congress going to cut? If it's an individual with debt, there's lots of things to cut: drive a less expensive car, live in a cheaper apartment, go out less, stop tithing, stop giving to charity, pick up a second job, borrow interest free from a relative to pay off interest-bearing debt, etc. Individual debt is so much easier to pay off because it's a single person making individual choices. Also, there's bankruptcy if it came down to it. Sure there would be the stigma of being a bankrupt and a hit on the credit score, but that would be after a single person weighs the options and chooses the most personally preferential way to pay off the debt.

What can our gov't do to pay off our debt? Raise taxes, which would impede future growth, cut spending, which is politically unfeasible (at least to the extent necessary to pay off the debt), inflate our way out (which will hurt both individuals with assets as well as future investment), or sell off assets (what are we really going to sell? Apart from federal lands which might garner a trillion). Raise taxes and 50% of voters are against it (ignoring whatever economic effect). And what can be cut? Military? Probably but there are political consequences to that. Medicare and SS? Sure, it could be cut, but again with severe political repercussions. Homeland Security? Education? Dept. of the interior? FAA? FDA? FCA? What can realistically be cut to apply to our debt? A single individual would quickly decide what to cut based on individual preferences, but our political system cannot act as an individual.

A recent grad that grows his way out of debt is able to do so precisely because he doesn't have high overhead coming out of school. I have a friend who is 150k in debt, but his salary is 150k a year. He's able to pay off his debt because his non-debt expenditures are going to be far less than that salary. But with our gov't, there's no politically feasible way to pay off that debt. We're spending more than we're taking in, unlike a recent grad, or a person with 100k income and 90k debt. We're taking in 150k a year and spending 200k, without the ability to make the personal choices necessary to service that debt. That's the problem. And of course everyone has their own answers. If it was me I would lay a 10% cut in spending across the board, political consequences be damned, but I'm not in washington, and I don't have to worry about being re-elected or politicking to get my personal preferences enacted. And, there is no bankruptcy option for our gov't. Sure, the EU can bail out Greece, and the US if needed could even bail out CA or NY, but at some point it all has to be paid or the crap hits the fan.

So then if we continue down this foolish road we end up being a slave nation??

That's the only outcome I can foresee.
 
#23
#23
A scarecrow with a shot gun?









So then if we continue down this foolish road we end up being a slave nation??

That's the only outcome I can foresee.

Yeah, I mean, really how are we going to pay off the 13 trillion debt? it's easy if it's one omnipotent power making decisions, its another with our bureaucracy trying to make cuts. We're going to either cut, or raise taxes, or both, and each is going to be a crap storm and either way we're all going to pay
 
#24
#24
$19.6 trillion by 2015 ... that would be enough $1 bills laid end to end to go to the sun and back .. 10 times!

that would be enough $1 bills stacked on top of each other to go to the moon 5 times!!!

wow.


U.S debt to rise to $19.6 trillion by 2015 | Reuters

U.S debt to rise to $19.6 trillion by 2015

WASHINGTON
Tue Jun 8, 2010 6:19pm EDT

WASHINGTON June 8 (Reuters) - The U.S. debt will top $13.6 trillion this year and climb to an estimated $19.6 trillion by 2015, according to a Treasury Department report to Congress.
 
#25
#25
$19.6 trillion by 2015 ... that would be enough $1 bills laid end to end to go to the sun and back .. 10 times!

that would be enough $1 bills stacked on top of each other to go to the moon 5 times!!!

wow.


U.S debt to rise to $19.6 trillion by 2015 | Reuters

But we'll have a federalized HC system, which will definitely deliver better, more efficient care. I'm psyched.
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