1st Year Disasters for Great Coaches

[LotteryPick]

A couple more great recruiting classes and we'll start to see a rise back to prominence. It's a process.

 

[Vol737]

this year is a gift for CBJ. He can not win a game more but next year he goes under my microscope

Gotta get him to year three and see if the trend is up. Year four, yes, then you have to have some notable success. I think next year is still too soon although we should start to see some progress. Not worried about a loss to the #2 team and the best offense in the country. I'm sure the staff and the players will learn from this and will improve going forward.

 

[TGVol]

Gotta get him to year three and see if the trend is up. Year four, yes, then you have to have some notable success. I think next year is still too soon although we should start to see some progress.

Exactly right. Dooley got his 3 years to see how his prized recruits would do when they have some experience so CBJ also should get that same opportunity (assuming he keeps this highly ranked class together - which may not be guaranteed if we keep getting blown up and embarrassed like we did yesterday).

 

[butchna]

I don't think any of those coaches had Jancek running their defense or Bajakian running their offense? That is the real issue for me - I don't think either of those two guys is going to cut it in SEC long term (Jancek already got fired at UGA and was part of staffs that got killed by Dooley and Kiffin). Bajakian had the whole summer to prepare something special for this game and ran total of 5 offensive plays? The issue is not that you lose - it was a given we lose to Oregon this year. It's how you lose - and we went down against superior opponent without putting up a fight.

We heard you the first 100 times :scare::scare::bash:don't you you have insurance to sell?

 

[TGVol]

We heard you the first 100 times :scare::scare::bash:don't you you have insurance to sell?

And I've heard "Butch gets it" million times (at least - and while I hope he does, do you have insurance to sell)?

 

[Volosaurus rex]

Good one. Though, in fairness, he won every single other game that year. The sad thing was that Vandy was probably the toughest team on the schedule then.

The reality, however, is that Vanderbilt was a top-10 program during the first quarter of the twentieth century; they posted a 165-45-15 record during that period for a winning percentage of .76667, good enough for 10th best nationally (see I-A Winning Percentage 1900-1925). That is the context against which Neyland ultimately flipped the field on the Commodes.

 

[butchna]

And I've heard "Butch gets it" million times (at least - and while I hope he does, do you have insurance to sell)?

Know your surroundings...this is a Vol message board...Butch gets it A MILLION X 3deal...schmuck :furious3::furious3::furious3::censored::censored::angry::finger3:ost-4-1090547957::daddy::biteme:

 

[TGVol]

Know your surroundings...this is a Vol message board...Butch gets it A MILLION X 3deal...schmuck :furious3::furious3::furious3::censored::censored::angry::finger3:ost-4-1090547957::daddy::biteme:

I hate that people get so irrationally emotional regarding coaches - lately its been if you don't believe CBJ is second coming of Jesus you better not even post (it's not enough to hope CBJ succeeds but you are not even allowed to question whether he perhaps may not be quite as good as advertised). Same thing happens often when coaches get hired everywhere else as well but I noticed this much more with CBJ (perhaps because of his more sophisticated use of social media).

 

[tm3]

True re 1st year disasters

Conversely

Most coaches who went on to be considered "great" had a big upset in their first year. In fact Harbaugh's upset of USC in 2007 is considered the greatest of all time because the spread was 41 points.

CBJ has one chance down, about 4 more to go ......

 

[smokey0625]

To keep things in perspective, here's a list of 1st year disasters for some of the greatest coaches in college football history.

Steve Spurrier, 1990 vs Tennessee, 3-45
Steve Spurrier, 2005 vs Auburn, 7-48
Nick Saban, 2000 vs. Florida, 9-41
Nick Saban, 1995 vs Nebraska, 10-50
Jim Harbaugh, 2007 vs Arizona State, 3-41

Bobby Bowden, 1976 vs Miami, 0-47
Johnny Majors, 1977 vs Ole Miss, 14-43
Les Miles, 2001 vs Texas, 17-45
Tom Osborne, 1973 vs Oklahoma, 0-27
Vince Dooley, 1964 vs Alabama, 3-31

Lou Holtz, 1984 vs Nebraska, 7-38
Lou Holtz, 1999 with South Carolina, 0 wins, 11 losses
Hayden Fry, 1979 vs Ohio State, 7-34
Frank Beamer, 1987 vs South Carolina, 10-40

The list goes on and on.

It's only one game. It was against a top 3 team and quite possibly the greatest offense in college football history. "Rome wasn't build in one day."

Not saying that Butch shouldn't be held accountable, but it's just one game. The real question is how this team progresses as the season goes on and over the next few years. Let's not jump to conclusions after one horrible game, where our team was completely overmatched.

I still have total confidence that Butch can restore this team to the top tier of the SEC. It'll take some time, though.

Saban lost to LA Monroe in year one.

 

[ManningBerry#1]

Lou Holtz is not a great coach.

 

[dovervolz]

I'm firmly behind CBJ and the vols and will always bleed orange. that being said, in all the "disasters " listed above, none were more than 41 points. Yesterdays loss of 45 points was the most. I believe CBJ will use this as a learning experience to improve the team

 

[volswillrise12]

And I've heard "Butch gets it" million times (at least - and while I hope he does, do you have insurance to sell)?

I don't think any of those coaches had Jancek running their defense or Bajakian running their offense? That is the real issue for me - I don't think either of those two guys is going to cut it in SEC long term (Jancek already got fired at UGA and was part of staffs that got killed by Dooley and Kiffin). Bajakian had the whole summer to prepare something special for this game and ran total of 5 offensive plays? The issue is not that you lose - it was a given we lose to Oregon this year. It's how you lose - and we went down against superior opponent without putting up a fight.

I'm sorry but did you watch the same game? It's hard to game plan when your defense is left out there for long stretches of time. I won't even mention the fact that the personnel that's out there is not exactly an ideal fit for the type of offense that we are supposed to run. We lost to a superior opponent because they have superior talent that's the bottom line. Offensive or defensive game planning wouldn't have helped. We lacked speed and talent getting on the plane and we still lack it leaving. Period.

 

[butchna]

I hate that people get so irrationally emotional regarding coaches - lately its been if you don't believe CBJ is second coming of Jesus you better not even post (it's not enough to hope CBJ succeeds but you are not even allowed to question whether he perhaps may not be quite as good as advertised). Same thing happens often when coaches get hired everywhere else as well but I noticed this much more with CBJ (perhaps because of his more sophisticated use of social media).

Understand your point...But there are extremes to both sides...I haven't declared him the savior of our program....time will tell with that...my annoyance with you and likeminds is your urgency to declare this a bust and failure...I was prepared for Oregon to score 70...So definitely no murder/suicides over giving up 59 to a team that has been recruited and ingrained in that crazy/fast system for the last five seasons....don't be in such a hurry to be right...You might not be eace2:

 

[Vol4life25]

You are reaching, almost.....almost

 

[TGVol]

my annoyance with you and likeminds is your urgency to declare this a bust and failure...

I'm not declaring this a bust or failure at this point (way to early for that). I do admit that I was very skeptical of CBJ hiring and early on as he annoyed me by declaring he is bringing the best stuff in America only to bring pretty much the whole bearcat staff (including coaches formerly fired by UGA). However, I have since changed my opinion and became much more hopeful based on CBJ recruiting much better than I anticipated. I also like his positive energy and there is no question he got the fan base excited. But at the end of the day I wanted to see what type of product they will put on the field. CBJ kept talking about how we are going to be playing hard, smart, etc (winning football is the phrase that kept coming up all the time). But I saw none of that yesterday and I actually felt like the coaches (especially on offense) rolled over and played dead - I expected something very different and much more exciting (a lot of surprises they cooked up over the summer specifically for this game vs highly ranked team on the national stage). But there was nothing there to see other than the worst performance I have ever seen by any UT team in 30 years of watching.

 

[TGVol]

It's hard to game plan when your defense is left out there for long stretches of time.

And that is why if a huge offensive line is the strongest part of your team and it's 4th and 1 you go for it (to help your defense). It's not like it made any difference whether Oregon had to drive 40 or 70 yards against that poor defense - it probably only took about 2 plays or 10 sec more for them to score after we kept punting (directly to their best return man the whole first half - for goodness sake how hard was it for the coaches to figure out and tell Palardy to punt out of bounds - finally started doing that in the second half). So my point is while its true we were not ready to beat Oregon we did not take advantage of the one strength that we do have - and that poor planing and poor game coaching is on our coaches.

 

[DiderotsGhost]

Bump.

Add Don James to the list. James lost 52-0 at Alabama in his first year at Washington.

Don James would actually be a good model for Jones. Washington went 2-9 and 5-6 the two years before he got there. James went 6-5 and 5-6 in Years 1 and 2, before going 142-46 in his next 16 years, with 6 Pac-10 titles, and 1 national championship.

 

[UTK]

Butch will probably get us back but today was back to painful reality. We're not even close to Bama. Bama is and is going to be like the God of football as long as stupid ass Saban is there

 

[BookVol]

Butch will probably get us back but today was back to painful reality. We're not even close to Bama. Bama is and is going to be like the God of football as long as stupid ass Saban is there

Our recruiting should close the gap a bit even if Saban doesn't go to Texas.

 

[Catbone]

Our recruiting should close the gap a bit even if Saban doesn't go to Texas.

It'll take 3 years of top 5 recruiting to be as deep as them.

 

[BookVol]

It'll take 3 years of top 5 recruiting to be as deep as them.

Sure. But #Brickbybrick