247 Sports Coaching Changes Grades

#3
#3
They apparently didn't talk to Mark May, he said more or less LSU was dumb not to hire Coach O. I would say somewhere in between the two opinions. How is it... one expert can say something the exact opposite of another expert? They both can't be right. I think somewhere in between on Coach O.

As a LSU fan, considering what was available, money, and the total situation if I were to rate the whole situation Coach O + Aranda (securing longer term) + Canada probably would rate it a B+/A, if they hire an outstanding special teams coach it could be an outstanding upgrade as a whole from what was there. Keep Aranda, keep some assistants, and dump the rest.
 
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#5
#5
LSU-SIU said:
They apparently didn't talk to Mark May, he said more or less LSU was dumb not to hire Coach O. I would say somewhere in between the two opinions. How is it... one expert can say something the exact opposite of another expert? They both can't be right. I think somewhere in between on Coach O.

As a LSU fan, considering what was available, money, and the total situation if I were to rate the whole situation Coach O + Aranda (securing longer term) + Canada probably would rate it a B+/A, if they hire an outstanding special teams coach it could be an outstanding upgrade as a whole from what was there. Keep Aranda, keep some assistants, and dump the rest.
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Hiring coach O is an F if you're LSU. It's a C if you're Mississippi State and it's an A if you're Louisiana Tech.
 
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#8
#8
LSU-SIU said:
They apparently didn't talk to Mark May, he said more or less LSU was dumb not to hire Coach O. I would say somewhere in between the two opinions. How is it... one expert can say something the exact opposite of another expert? They both can't be right. I think somewhere in between on Coach O.

As a LSU fan, considering what was available, money, and the total situation if I were to rate the whole situation Coach O + Aranda (securing longer term) + Canada probably would rate it a B+/A, if they hire an outstanding special teams coach it could be an outstanding upgrade as a whole from what was there. Keep Aranda, keep some assistants, and dump the rest.
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You like Canada that much?
 
#9
#9
Orange_Vol1321 said:
You like Canada that much?
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I really didn't know much about him until last week to be honest, but watched a few games of Pitt and Wisconsin. I would say a solid hire, made a lot of sense why there is interest in him by LSU in particular.

He is going to have to mix in what he is doing to be successful in the SEC. Of course, I think Ensminger has done a good job of calling plays once Cameron was shown the door.

Don't get me wrong... I don't think Coach O is a sexy hire... matter of fact, that dude would look horrible in a two piece. :) If you are LSU though, and there is no homerun coach out there... you then have to surround the HC with some homerun hires or at least doubles or triples.
 
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#10
#10
:loco:
LSU-SIU said:
I really didn't know much about him until last week to be honest, but watched a few games of Pitt and Wisconsin. I would say a solid hire, made a lot of sense why there is interest in him by LSU in particular.

He is going to have to mix in what he is doing to be successful in the SEC. Of course, I think Ensminger has done a good job of calling plays once Cameron was shown the door.

Don't get me wrong... I don't think Coach O is a sexy hire... matter of fact, that dude would look horrible in a two piece. :) If you are LSU though, and there is no homerun coach out there... you then have to surround the HC with some homerun hires or at least doubles or triples.
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That's exactly what they did.
Makes it a lot easier for O to be successful
 
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#12
#12
Outofmyvolcanmind said:
He's an F for LSU. Nothing he's done merits a top 10 job.
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I totally agree. They wanted a guy who can beat Nick Saban, so they got...Ed Orgeron.

I think it is being overlooked how bad of a hire this was. Matt Canada better walk on water for him. Orgeron is a clown who shouldn't be anything other than a position coach on a full-time basis. He's just a hype man/recruiter. He's has never even been a defensive coordinator before.
 
#13
#13
05_never_again said:
I totally agree. They wanted a guy who can beat Nick Saban, so they got...Ed Orgeron.

I think it is being overlooked how bad of a hire this was. Matt Canada better walk on water for him. Orgeron is a clown who shouldn't be anything other than a position coach on a full-time basis. He's just a hype man/recruiter. He's has never even been a defensive coordinator before.
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Coach O just might be successful. He did pretty well as an interim HC twice. Only so much you can change in mid season.

Dabo Swinney scenario is similar. He was also just a position coach that became interim and was then hired as HC. He struggled some in the early going, but hired good staff, recruited well and is having great success. Not unlike Coach O, his strengths are relationships, recruiting and motivation.

There's really not that much that was broken at LSU and needed fixing. Biggest needs were an effective OC/QB developer and talented QB(s). Coach O made a really good hire in Matt Canada as OC. He's a very good OC/ QB coach and should be able to excel with the talent LSU is able to recruit.

It's going to be interesting to see how well Coach O's LSU teams do in the next few years.
 
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#17
#17
Butch Davis and Taggart should be higher. Probably Matt Rhule as well, given the situation at Baylor.
 
#18
#18
LSU-SIU said:
I really didn't know much about him until last week to be honest, but watched a few games of Pitt and Wisconsin. I would say a solid hire, made a lot of sense why there is interest in him by LSU in particular.

He is going to have to mix in what he is doing to be successful in the SEC. Of course, I think Ensminger has done a good job of calling plays once Cameron was shown the door.

Don't get me wrong... I don't think Coach O is a sexy hire... matter of fact, that dude would look horrible in a two piece. :) If you are LSU though, and there is no homerun coach out there... you then have to surround the HC with some homerun hires or at least doubles or triples.
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Every fan of a team that makes a bad HC hire starts talking up the assistants. We did it with Dooley and now with Butch. It almost never works out; if the assistants ARE good enough to carry a bad coach, they're not assistants for long.
 
#19
#19
Outofmyvolcanmind said:
Really? He coached Ole Miss didn't he?
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That was a long time ago. He has talked some about things he learned from his mistakes at Ole Miss. He's surely learned some things from Pete Caroll and Les Miles too. Orgeron is more savvy than many realize. Savvy enough to get hired as LSU's HC.
 
#20
#20
There were a lot of weird moves this off-season IMO.

Taggart is a great Head Coach and I think he'll succeed at Oregon; yet part of me questions whether he's the right fit. The media has really played up his experience at Stanford, but the vast majority of his career has been spent in the Southeast. I worry he could be another "Charlie Strong at Texas" fish out of water story. Taggart has typically taken 3-4 years to really get "his guys" and system to work; will Oregon fans have the patience? Also think that the true A+ hire would've been Eastern Washington Head Coach Beau Baldwin, who has succeeded wildly at EWU with limited resources. All that said, I'd still bet on Taggart succeeding at Oregon.

Rhule at Baylor is similar to Taggart at Oregon. Great coach, but I have to wonder about the fit. Rhule has no experience in Texas and limited experience in the Southeast. He's also taking over what might be one of the toughest rebuilding jobs in America right now. Baylor was OK this year, but there's going to be a sharp drop-off here in about two years as the fallout from the Art Briles situation starts to be felt on the depth chart. Frankly, I think this job is a coach-killer and Rhule would've been better off staying at Temple a little while longer. So, if I had to guess, I'd say Taggart will succeed at Oregon and Rhule will fail at Baylor, but you never know.

Charlie Strong is an A+ hire IMO at USF. I think Texas was an aberration.

Ed Orgeron will likely end up being a poor hire for LSU. Last year, I made the argument that LSU in 2015 looks a bit like UT in 2005 in terms of where the program is at. LSU's Athletic Department under Joe Alleva is very dysfunctional just like ours was under Hamilton. Part of the reason for Les Miles' declining fortunes is precisely the lack of support he's gotten from the AD; with the Chavis contract issues being a prime example. Orgeron is a great recruiter, but he was a poor coach at Ole Miss. He's going to have a hard time succeeding in the absolutely brutal SEC West.

Lane Kiffin at FAU is also a bit weird. If Kiffin had gotten the HC job at either Houston or USF, it would've been seen as a big step forward for him. However, the FAU job is almost like a demotion. I do think it showcases how desperate he is for another shot to prove himself, though, and for that reason, I think he'll succeed. He's definitely hungry and he'll work tirelessly this time around. My only real question is whether this was a good hire for FAU; as we all know Kiffin is going to bolt given the first opportunity to take a better job.
 
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#22
#22
NashVol11 said:
Butch Davis and Taggart should be higher. Probably Matt Rhule as well, given the situation at Baylor.
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Rhule was good for Baylor on a lot of fronts.
His no nonsense approach will fix things off the field and he's a great coach so on field will take care of itself.
 
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#23
#23
Tidal Surge said:
That was a long time ago. He has talked some about things he learned from his mistakes at Ole Miss. He's surely learned some things from Pete Caroll and Les Miles too. Orgeron is more savvy than many realize. Savvy enough to get hired as LSU's HC.
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How do you know when he hasn't coached a full season yet after his prior debacle?

He's a good position coach but IMO doesn't have the wherewithal to be the head man. This hire makes Florida's path to the east easier. It irritates me.
 
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#24
#24
Outofmyvolcanmind said:
How do you know when he hasn't coached a full season yet after his prior debacle?

He's a good position coach but IMO doesn't have the wherewithal to be the head man. This hire makes Florida's path to the east easier. It irritates me.
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I agree.

It's a lot easier to maintain what someone else built for a season or two than to continually build and re-load a program. There have been so many coaches who have taken over programs in great position, continued that success for a year or two, before seeing a dropoff.

Larry Coker and Mark Helfrich are great examples. Coker took over a national championship level Miami program in 2000. He then proceeded to start 35 - 3 with 3 BCS Bowl appearances, a national title, and an Orange Bowl victory in his first three seasons. He was also one play away from winning a second national title in 2002. What happened after that? Two 9-3 seasons, followed by a 7-6 debacle. Miami has never been the same since then. Similar deal with Helfrich. He continued Chip Kelly's success going 24-4 with a National Championship Game appearance during his first two seasons. By season 4, he's 4-8.

I suspect Ed Orgeron will suffer a similar fate. LSU will continue to look pretty good for another few years, but there's going to be a drop-off over time. Don't be surprised if 3 - 5 years down the road, Orgeron posts a 5-7 or 4-8 season and gets canned. Orgeron is a great recruiter, but there's absolutely nothing in his career that suggests that he's a good head guy. He's 11-4 at USC and LSU after taking over programs in very good shape in interim roles. But I can't see him as a guy who can maintain that success long-term.
 
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