Congrats to little brother UTC Mocs, NIT Champs

#2
#2
I don't know if an NIT title is enough to get your coach poached, although they did have a great season and were capable of upsetting someone had they made the NCAAT. I think the consensus about the Earl hire was that it was pretty underwhelming (he came from VMI, which is a SoCon bottom feeder) but he's been good at UTC.

Huff and Bonham are for real. Huff in particular I'm sure is getting interest from major conference programs.
 
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#3
#3
05_never_again said:
I don't know if an NIT title is enough to get your coach poached, although they did have a great season and were capable of upsetting someone had they made the NCAAT. I think the consensus about the Earl hire was that it was pretty underwhelming (he came from VMI, which is a SoCon bottom feeder) but he's been good at UTC.

Huff and Bonham are for real. Huff in particular I'm sure is getting interest from major conference programs.
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Might be the perfect hire for them, good but not too good.😀
 
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#4
#4
05_never_again said:
I don't know if an NIT title is enough to get your coach poached, although they did have a great season and were capable of upsetting someone had they made the NCAAT. I think the consensus about the Earl hire was that it was pretty underwhelming (he came from VMI, which is a SoCon bottom feeder) but he's been good at UTC.

Huff and Bonham are for real. Huff in particular I'm sure is getting interest from major conference programs.
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I don’t know how SoCon rosters can be sustained in the current environment. They truly are a farm system at this point.
 
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#5
#5
GAVol said:
I don’t know how SoCon rosters can be sustained in the current environment. They truly are a farm system at this point.
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Transfers go both ways though. Bonham started 13 games for UF a couple of years ago, so he can play. In UTC's case they also had 2 transfers from DII, one of whom (Keeslar) was a key player for them all year and in the game last night in particular. Their starting 5 had 3 seniors, a junior, and a freshman.

If you play it right, there are still ways to field an experienced team. Just seems really difficult and stressful though, because you can't recruit freshman and if they ball out expect them to stay anymore.
 
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#6
#6
05_never_again said:
I don't know if an NIT title is enough to get your coach poached, although they did have a great season and were capable of upsetting someone had they made the NCAAT. I think the consensus about the Earl hire was that it was pretty underwhelming (he came from VMI, which is a SoCon bottom feeder) but he's been good at UTC.

Huff and Bonham are for real. Huff in particular I'm sure is getting interest from major conference programs.
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Correct me if I am wrong but UT hired Buzz after he won the NIT right?
 
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#7
#7
Can honestly say-first time I had heard the letters NIT or even thought of that tournament-in a while.

Used to be a much bigger deal when I was growing up than it is now. Or perhaps back then, the NIT tourney was about the aspirational level of UT basketball?
 
#8
#8
(Reaching for a metaphor...)
As fans, when we become focused on the "technically best" of whatever, we end up at super exotic performance car races.

But if our focus is on competitiveness... any race featuring any class of cars can be just as entertaining as another. It depends only on the drivers.

So if you enjoy the drama of humans competing under pressure, the NIT is as good as the NCAA product.

Personally, if I had television, I'd prefer a return to more ABC Wide World of Sports and less ESPN Networks. But expect that, if you're in your 30s, in your lifetime you will be witness to controversy over whether neuro-linked athletes should be allowed to compete equally with un-augmented humans.
(If we have a choice on remaining un-augmented.)
 
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#11
#11
My granddaughter just graduated there. Anyone need a marketing major? Presently, she works at Chatt Country Club.
 
#12
#12
GAVol said:
I don’t know how SoCon rosters can be sustained in the current environment. They truly are a farm system at this point.
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I've seen where some mid-major coaches tell their recruits, if you're still here after two years, it's your own fault. They've started recruiting like JUCO coaches
 
#13
#13
Batman1948 said:
I've seen where some mid-major coaches tell their recruits, if you're still here after two years, it's your own fault. They've started recruiting like JUCO coaches
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I’ma season ticket holder at Mercer and you’re exactly right. The basketball roster the past two years has turned over 8 or 9 guys each.
 
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#14
#14
BruisedOrange said:
(Reaching for a metaphor...)
As fans, when we become focused on the "technically best" of whatever, we end up at super exotic performance car races.

But if our focus is on competitiveness... any race featuring any class of cars can be just as entertaining as another. It depends only on the drivers.

So if you enjoy the drama of humans competing under pressure, the NIT is as good as the NCAA product.

Personally, if I had television, I'd prefer a return to more ABC Wide World of Sports and less ESPN Networks. But expect that, if you're in your 30s, in your lifetime you will be witness to controversy over whether neuro-linked athletes should be allowed to compete equally with un-augmented humans.
(If we have a choice on remaining un-augmented.)
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I waited all year to watch the Sumo Wrestling and Harlem Globetrotters with Howard Cosell calling the game. and oddly, the Ice Speedway. All winter sports were pretty interesting to me in rural West TN. Wide World of Sports was awesome in the 70s and early 80s. Gymnastics and Figure Skating were charged events due to the Cold War rivalries. The trope of the 'The Russian Judge gives it a 6 out of 10' was played out regularly.

The great intros of tv were The Six Million Dollar Man, The Incredible Hulk, and Wide World of Sports.
 
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#15
#15
SpookyAction said:
I waited all year to watch the Sumo Wrestling and Harlem Globetrotters with Howard Cosell calling the game. and oddly, the Ice Speedway. All winter sports were pretty interesting to me in rural West TN. Wide World of Sports was awesome in the 70s and early 80s. Gymnastics and Figure Skating were charged events due to the Cold War rivalries. The trope of the 'The Russian Judge gives it a 6 out of 10' was played out regularly.

The great intros of tv were The Six Million Dollar Man, The Incredible Hulk, and Wide World of Sports.
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Always thought that ski jumping dude crashing on the intro had to of killed him.
 
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#16
#16
Always thought that ski jumping dude crashing on the intro had to of killed him.
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The Agony of Defeat.

I think that guy hobbled away with a broken leg or something. I saw it on CNN back when they had a lot of sports and entertainment news every hour.
 
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#17
#17
Got a question for everyone. Where is your break even point as fans of a team in regards to NCAA tournament performance vs winning an NIT national title? I don't think that is a particular right answer, but I want to hear from people.

Obviously we would never trade this year, #2 seed, Elite Eight, for an NIT national title.
but would you trade if you were Texas this year? Play in team, lose in the play in round, vs winning an NIT national title?
Or what if we were a high seed in the NCAA, but are upset in an early round, would you trade that for an NIT national title?
or is it simply any NCAA outcome > best NIT outcome?

where would that break even point be for you?
 
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#18
#18
LouderVol said:
Got a question for everyone. Where is your break even point as fans of a team in regards to NCAA tournament performance vs winning an NIT national title? I don't think that is a particular right answer, but I want to hear from people.

Obviously we would never trade this year, #2 seed, Elite Eight, for an NIT national title.
but would you trade if you were Texas this year? Play in team, lose in the play in round, vs winning an NIT national title?
Or what if we were a high seed in the NCAA, but are upset in an early round, would you trade that for an NIT national title?
or is it simply any NCAA outcome > best NIT outcome?

where would that break even point be for you?
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I'll ask back a different way; last football season would you have rather gone to the Citrus Bowl and won by at least 3 TDs or do what we did, go to the playoffs and get skulldrug to the eventual National Champion? I choose playoffs every time, not even a moments hesitation. I would always take a chance no matter how small to win a championship than to win something that by comparison doesn't mean a lot.

The NIT is like going to a non-playoff bowl and before the expanded playoffs it was like going to a non NY6/BCS bowl. Like you're there, might as well win it but it really doesn't matter that much. And now with the rise of the CBC it's going to matter even less.
 
#19
#19
VolsSportsFan said:
I'll ask back a different way; last football season would you have rather gone to the Citrus Bowl and won by at least 3 TDs or do what we did, go to the playoffs and get skulldrug to the eventual National Champion? I choose playoffs every time, not even a moments hesitation. I would always take a chance no matter how small to win a championship than to win something that by comparison doesn't mean a lot.

The NIT is like going to a non-playoff bowl and before the expanded playoffs it was like going to a non NY6/BCS bowl. Like you're there, might as well win it but it really doesn't matter that much. And now with the rise of the CBC it's going to matter even less.
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I think the playoffs are a bit different because the 12 team one is new, and we had never been to the playoffs before. that adds a good bit of "go to the playoff" that won't always be there imo. a couple other factors go into to, the playoffs were the next step for us that we had been struggling to get into, and it let our young QB play.

I see your point about the bowls though. I think its a bit different because the NIT was once the bigger/more important tournament, and its still a tournament vs a one off game.

not to derail the thread too much more but I have wondered about the smaller bowls getting to together and forming some smaller playoffs just to up their game.
 
#20
#20
LouderVol said:
I think the playoffs are a bit different because the 12 team one is new, and we had never been to the playoffs before. that adds a good bit of "go to the playoff" that won't always be there imo. a couple other factors go into to, the playoffs were the next step for us that we had been struggling to get into, and it let our young QB play.

I see your point about the bowls though. I think its a bit different because the NIT was once the bigger/more important tournament, and its still a tournament vs a one off game.

not to derail the thread too much more but I have wondered about the smaller bowls getting to together and forming some smaller playoffs just to up their game.
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It's the same concept though. I'm not talking about this specific playoff run, I mean in general would you rather make the playoffs and get destroyed or play in a bowl like the Citrus Bowl and win? I don't see how anyone could pick a bowl over a playoff. The "winning the NIT" over losing in the first round of the NCAAT is the exact same concept.

Yeah the NIT used to mean something but it's been about 50 years since that was true; just like making a bowl used to be a bigger deal.

I'd rather lose by 50 in a First Four game than win the NIT.
 
#21
#21
VolsSportsFan said:
It's the same concept though. I'm not talking about this specific playoff run, I mean in general would you rather make the playoffs and get destroyed or play in a bowl like the Citrus Bowl and win? I don't see how anyone could pick a bowl over a playoff. The "winning the NIT" over losing in the first round of the NCAAT is the exact same concept.

Yeah the NIT used to mean something but it's been about 50 years since that was true; just like making a bowl used to be a bigger deal.

I'd rather lose by 50 in a First Four game than win the NIT.
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thats fair. I just wanted to hear what people thought.
 
#22
#22
NIT = Not In Tournament

NCAAT every time. We were a Last Four In team once before and was a few points away from making the Elite 8. I’ll take that chance over being known as the next best team that didn’t make the actual tournament.
 
#23
#23
VolPack22 said:
NIT = Not In Tournament

NCAAT every time. We were a Last Four In team once before and was a few points away from making the Elite 8. I’ll take that chance over being known as the next best team that didn’t make the actual tournament.
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It’s not an either/or thing tho. I’d RATHER win a consolation tournament than sit home and brood.
 
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#24
#24
butchna said:
It’s not an either/or thing tho. I’d RATHER win a consolation tournament than sit home and brood.
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Our consolation was being one of the 8 best teams in the country. The NIT winner is just the 69th best team. Maybe if they combined the tournaments and allowed the NIT Final Four teams to be NCAAT teams then people would view that tournament like they once did and gain more interest. Until then, that tournament is as close to meaningless as it gets in the grand scheme of things.
 
#25
#25
VolPack22 said:
Our consolation was being one of the 8 best teams in the country. The NIT winner is just the 69th best team. Maybe if they combined the tournaments and allowed the NIT Final Four teams to be NCAAT teams then people would view that tournament like they once did and gain more interest. Until then, that tournament is as close to meaningless as it gets in the grand scheme of things.
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Less “meaningless” than staying home? You make it sound like they turned down the Big Dance. I remember the loaded Mocs squad headed by Gerald Wilkins who fell to Louisville in the NIT. That team went on to win the NC the next season with Never Nervous Pervis Ellison…the last NC Denny Crum won. Winning something “meaningless” never hurts you taking the next step
 
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