“Always with the negative ways, Moriarity!”

[Volrocketman]

Hopefully many on here will get my pop culture reference from the classic “Kelly’s Heroes.” And before I get into this, let me state I fully grasp the irony of creating a thread to whine and complain about all of the whiners and complainers. But seriously it seems like the NegaVols have taken over this website. So many threads about who screwed up what, who should be fired, who should be benched, who’s leaving, and on and on …. It’s almost to the point where it’s no longer fun to come on here and share thoughtful dialogue about our beloved Vols. Yes, we can share complaints and criticisms when things don’t go the way we want, but several on here have far exceeded the threshold of appropriate negativity.

I’ve got news for some you - the season isn’t over yet, folks. It’s game day, and despite what’s happened in the past, we still have the opportunity to watch our orange-clad (or gray-clad for today) warriors do battle on the gridiron. There’s still a chance for a 10-win season, and according to that All-State predictor thingy, the Vols still have a slim chance to make the CFP. Football season will be over far too soon and we’ll be in the doldrums of non-football season, so let’s enjoy it while we can.

Here’s a suggestion - Freak, would it be possible to create a mirror site to this one where all the whiners and complainers can go to share their misery? The perfect name would be “NegaVol-nation.” If that’s too much, then maybe there can be a new forum called the “Legion of the Miserable.” (My apologies to Mr. LotM for borrowing his moniker as he often provides thoughtful and positive discourse to these discussions (I.e., he’s not always a negative Nancy), so he gets somewhat of a pass.)

Go Vols!!!

 

[CornDontGrow]

But the Smokey greys this year are trash! /blue


In all seriousness the LoTM seem to outnumber any rational view of this season. I think some of the posters who have suggested that a lot of them are either just losers in real life and are tired of beating their dog so they come on here to spread their misery, or they are fans that joined when we had our miracle season in ‘22. I’ll admit there have been times this season where I have been negative, (post OK) but if we can zoom out and see the upward trajectory it makes it easier to keep this season in perspective. I have become a big fan of the ignore button lately. My only hope is the majority of fans who are level headed and see things for how they are will outweigh the vocal minority.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

…. It’s almost to the point where it’s no longer fun to come on here ...

Here’s a suggestion - Freak, would it be possible to create a mirror site to this one where all the whiners and complainers can go to share their misery? The perfect name would be “NegaVol-nation.” If that’s too much, then maybe there can be a new forum called the “Legion of the Miserable.” (My apologies to Mr. LotM for borrowing his moniker as he often provides thoughtful and positive discourse to these discussions (I.e., he’s not always a negative Nancy), so he gets somewhat of a pass.)

Go Vols!!!

Yah, I think vn.com has gotten stuck in a poisoned well.

When you run a site like this, you want to maximize traffic. Everyone sitting around agreeing doesn't generate much traffic. Instead, you want controversy, discussion, debate, even argument as long as it stays in bounds (whatever those bounds are defined to be*).

So on the face of it, having a mixed community with plenty of positive, exuberant Vols fans, with a significant minority of Eeyores (nega-vols), and even a splash of trolls and fans of other schools, that seems the most profitable combo. On the face of it.

Unfortunately, that may be bad math. The unrelenting negativity of the vocal minority and trolls may get bad enough to chase a significant share of the majority away. I know I've considered leaving a number of times over the years. I think a lot of folks have actually taken that step. Lot of names of people I appreciated that I don't see around any more. And the lost clicks of fans who can't stand the negativity may outweigh the extra clicks generated by the trolling trolls and whining Eeyores.

So could vn.com be even more profitable with more policing of the negativity? Dunno. But I sure wish we'd give it the old college try. lol.

Alternatively, what you recommended. Separate areas for the two communities. I'd always imagined an invitation-only sub-forum for folks who support the Vols in a positive way. Your idea, a site just for the negative ones, is the mirror to that.

Trouble is, the negative crowd are never going to police themselves that way. They PREFER to be around the sunshine crowd, because part of their fun is pooping on other people's parades. So that way might not work.

In any case, we'll probably never see it. There's too much $$$ value in disagreement, on a site where the owner gets a 0.1 pennies per click (or something along those lines).

Go Vols!


* Volnation.com used to police the negativity much tighter than it does today. When I first joined, about a decade ago, one of the rules of the site was No talking ill of our players or coaches. Seriously, that was one of the first rules in the list. After a while, "coaches" was erased from the rule. Free-for-all for the haters of Fulmer (in addition to every other coach, before or since). I guess today the players are also fair game, folks talk so badly about some of them so often. Maybe it's still in the rule list, just not enforced. For sure, though, the site has opened up the throttle for argument and vitriol over the years.


EDIT: In fact, the entire set of rules may have been done away with. Used to be easy to find, right at the top of the football forum. I don't see it there any more. Maybe it's still around, just not as evident.

 

[Rocky Top T]

The players and coaches deserve praise and criticism when needed. For example, Joey Aguilar has had a very good season, Boo has not given his all and should have been let go this summer. Tim Banks is not a good DC. Heupel has terrible clock management at times. If you have watched the games you should agree with these. Saying these things doesn't make anyone a nega Vol. These players and coaches are well compensated, if they are not performing as they should it's ok to call them out. I said before season 9-3 would be a good season, let's get it.

 

[Rocky Top T]

Yah, I think vn.com has gotten stuck in a poisoned well.

When you run a site like this, you want to maximize traffic. Everyone sitting around agreeing doesn't generate much traffic. Instead, you want controversy, discussion, debate, even argument as long as it stays in bounds (whatever those bounds are defined to be*).

So on the face of it, having a mixed community with plenty of positive, exuberant Vols fans, with a significant minority of Eeyores (nega-vols), and even a splash of trolls and fans of other schools, that seems the most profitable combo. On the face of it.

Unfortunately, that may be bad math. The unrelenting negativity of the vocal minority and trolls may get bad enough to chase a significant share of the majority away. I know I've considered leaving a number of times over the years. I think a lot of folks have actually taken that step. Lot of names of people I appreciated that I don't see around any more. And the lost clicks of fans who can't stand the negativity any more may outweigh the extra clicks generated by the trolling trolls and whining Eeyores.

So could vn.com be even more profitable with more policing of the negativity? Dunno. But I sure wish we'd give it the old college try. lol.

Alternatively, what you recommended. Separate areas for the two communities. I'd always imagined an invitation-only sub-forum for folks who support the Vols in a positive way. Your idea, a site just for the negative ones, is the mirror to that.

Trouble is, the negative crowd are never going to police themselves that way. They PREFER to be around the sunshine crowd, because part of their fun is pooping on other people's parades. So that way might not work.

In any case, we'll probably never see it. There's too much $$$ value in disagreement, on a site where the owner gets a 0.1 pennies per click (or something along those lines).

Go Vols!


* Volnation.com used to police the negativity much tighter than it does today. When I first joined, about a decade ago, one of the rules of the site was No talking ill of our players or coaches. Seriously, that was one of the first rules in the list. After a while, "coaches" was erased from the rule. Free-for-all for the haters of Fulmer (in addition to every other coach, before or since). I guess today the players are also fair game, folks talk so badly about some of them so often. Maybe it's still in the rule list, just not enforced. For sure, though, the site has opened up the throttle for argument and vitriol over the years.


EDIT: In fact, the entire set of rules may have been done away with. Used to be easy to find, right at the top of the football forum. I don't see it there any more. Maybe it's still around, just not as evident.

I believe Anyone on here can say how they feel and be positive or negative. I have heard other fan bases are the same way on their sites. We don't need to tell people how to feel about their team

 

[VFL-82-JP]

The players and coaches deserve praise and criticism when needed.

Defiine "needed."

Do you believe there is wisdom in old sayings? The kinds of things your grandma or grandpa would tell you?

Here's one: If you don't have anything nice to say, just don't say anything at all.

Silence can be as powerful a message as spewing hate and discontent. And is much less unpleasant for EVERYONE involved. Think about it.

Go Vols!

 

[Rocky Top T]

Defiine "needed."

Do you believe there is wisdom in old sayings? The kinds of things your grandma or grandpa would tell you?

Here's one: If you don't have anything nice to say, just don't say anything at all.

Silence can be as powerful a message as spewing hate and discontent. And is much less unpleasant for EVERYONE involved. Think about it.

Go Vols!

I gave a few examples. Being critical is not spewing hate. If a player plays good, he should be praised, if not he should be criticized. I've followed Tennessee teams since I was a very young boy. I'm All Vol and Everyone in my county would tell you that. I'm just not a sunshine pumper. I call it as I see it

 

[VFL-82-JP]

And, relegated to The Pub, the place mods send threads to die.

This thread is just as tangentially about Vols football as, say, Diego Pavia's mom, or how the Rock got painted this week. Those threads live on for weeks or months in the Football Forum, but this thread--probably because it is less than 100% complimentary of how vn.com is managed--is shoved off into frozen hinterlands of the forums. Where far, far fewer people will ever see it.

I am distinctly not surprised. Anticipated the move, in fact.

Go Vols!

 

[VFL-82-JP]

...if not he should be criticized.

Why?

Explain, please, exactly why you personally feel the need to criticize a young man who plays with all his heart for our team on a web site that young man will never see. Explain why this "should" happen.

Not why it "can", we all know it can. But why should it? Just to satisfy your need to vent?

BTW, "just keeping it real" and "I call it as I see it" are the last defenses of negative people.

Go Vols!

 

[ALLVOL 4LIFE]

It’s really pretty simple. I’ve seen the mods combine threads many times, even delete a post, and this policing is necessary for obvious reasons.

Just my $.02 here, but they could take ALL NEGATIVE threads and combine them and if you dare to play in that, have at it, if not, don’t.

WTH! Who cares! Read what you want and pass over what you don’t! First Amendment stuff

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Defiine "needed."

Do you believe there is wisdom in old sayings? The kinds of things your grandma or grandpa would tell you?

Here's one: If you don't have anything nice to say, just don't say anything at all.

Silence can be as powerful a message as spewing hate and discontent. And is much less unpleasant for EVERYONE involved. Think about it.

Go Vols!

To be fair, we are paying a talent fee now. I think the criticism of Boo for example should be different than let's say Sham, Perry, Telander or Turrentine. Boo just isnt trying. The others are trying but they are a symptom of areas that need to be improved within the program....

 

[Rocky Top T]

Why?

Explain, please, exactly why you personally feel the need to criticize a young man who plays with all his heart for our team on a web site that young man will never see. Explain why this "should" happen.

Not why it "can", we all know it can. But why should it? Just to satisfy your need to vent?

BTW, "just keeping it real" and "I call it as I see it" are the last defenses of negative people.

Go Vols!

Ok, do you believe Boo should be criticized for what he did to the team and in his play and lack of effort at times?? Boo is making several hundred thousand dollars. If a person working for a very small fragment of that doesn't do their job, they get confronted and possibly lose their job. They don't call it this, but college football is semi pro. I see we will not agree on this, But I respect your thoughts and see that you don't do the same to me. Go Vols!

 

[sami]

Trouble is, the negative crowd are never going to police themselves that way. They PREFER to be around the sunshine crowd, because part of their fun is pooping on other people's parades. So that way might not work.

A 'negativity forum' wouldn't stand a chance for precisely this reason. The negas and trolls live and breathe to use terms like "sunshine pumper" to describe anyone with a positive viewpoint. They exist for the attention they get on forums like this, and I've often just advocated "don't feed the trolls" because without attention they would starve and eventually disappear.

But a healthy dialogue with discussion that includes justified criticism without the idiotic calls to burn the house down after every loss is what keeps forums like this interesting. Sadly, those kinds of discussions are fewer and farther between, much like political discussions today.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Ok, do you believe Boo should be criticized for what he did to the team and in his play and lack of effort at times??

Not by us, no. By his coaches, in private? Absolutely. By the leaders among his fellow players? Yep. By his parents (if they have the capacity)? Also yes. But by Tennessee fans in a public forum? Nothing positive is served by that, unless it be to save on some people's therapy bills, heh.

I see we will not agree on this, But I respect your thoughts and see that you don't do the same to me. Go Vols!

Yah, I respect your perspective as well. Do not agree with it, but I recognize you are a fellow Volunteer and that you want the best for our team. We just disagree on how the team is best served.

Another bit of old-time wisdom I've always found insightful: "Praise in public, criticize in private."

Go Vols!

 

[MemphisVol77]

Yah, I think vn.com has gotten stuck in a poisoned well.

When you run a site like this, you want to maximize traffic. Everyone sitting around agreeing doesn't generate much traffic. Instead, you want controversy, discussion, debate, even argument as long as it stays in bounds (whatever those bounds are defined to be*).

So on the face of it, having a mixed community with plenty of positive, exuberant Vols fans, with a significant minority of Eeyores (nega-vols), and even a splash of trolls and fans of other schools, that seems the most profitable combo. On the face of it.

Unfortunately, that may be bad math. The unrelenting negativity of the vocal minority and trolls may get bad enough to chase a significant share of the majority away. I know I've considered leaving a number of times over the years. I think a lot of folks have actually taken that step. Lot of names of people I appreciated that I don't see around any more. And the lost clicks of fans who can't stand the negativity may outweigh the extra clicks generated by the trolling trolls and whining Eeyores.

So could vn.com be even more profitable with more policing of the negativity? Dunno. But I sure wish we'd give it the old college try. lol.

Alternatively, what you recommended. Separate areas for the two communities. I'd always imagined an invitation-only sub-forum for folks who support the Vols in a positive way. Your idea, a site just for the negative ones, is the mirror to that.

Trouble is, the negative crowd are never going to police themselves that way. They PREFER to be around the sunshine crowd, because part of their fun is pooping on other people's parades. So that way might not work.

In any case, we'll probably never see it. There's too much $$$ value in disagreement, on a site where the owner gets a 0.1 pennies per click (or something along those lines).

Go Vols!


* Volnation.com used to police the negativity much tighter than it does today. When I first joined, about a decade ago, one of the rules of the site was No talking ill of our players or coaches. Seriously, that was one of the first rules in the list. After a while, "coaches" was erased from the rule. Free-for-all for the haters of Fulmer (in addition to every other coach, before or since). I guess today the players are also fair game, folks talk so badly about some of them so often. Maybe it's still in the rule list, just not enforced. For sure, though, the site has opened up the throttle for argument and vitriol over the years.


EDIT: In fact, the entire set of rules may have been done away with. Used to be easy to find, right at the top of the football forum. I don't see it there any more. Maybe it's still around, just not as evident.

Separating all the negativity sounds great in theory, but it isn't practical.

You can get called a negavol in August for predicting 8-4 and then get called a pumper for extolling 9-3 in November.

Not that specific example, but I've been accused of being both a nega and a sunshine pumper over the years.

I think the issue is endemic of the internet (particularly social media) being driven by polarization. Allow this aging Gen-X to yell at the clouds for a minute. It's all because of smart phones and wireless connectivity. The internet was better when it required a desk top and a wired connection. That small barrier of effort and foresight required for internet connectivity did more to filter out unhinged hot takes than anything mods could do.

I wish Volnation would lose the "Like" button, though.

 

[sami]

The players and coaches deserve praise and criticism when needed. For example, Joey Aguilar has had a very good season, Boo has not given his all and should have been let go this summer. Tim Banks is not a good DC. Heupel has terrible clock management at times. If you have watched the games you should agree with these. Saying these things doesn't make anyone a nega Vol. These players and coaches are well compensated, if they are not performing as they should it's ok to call them out. I said before season 9-3 would be a good season, let's get it.

Who is to define when it is "needed". And who the hell are you to suggest what anyone "should" feel or believe?

It is as much about tone as anything else. It is also those (such as yourself) whose negative (sorry ... "realistic") viewpoints never seem to vary. The ones who start a dozen threads the moment UT loses to be the first to lead the torch-bearing mob to burn the castle down. There is no discussion or nuance, it's just "this team and coach suck and will never succeed just as I've been saying all along".

It gets really old, man. I love a good discussion that includes criticism, but the the whole program doesn't always need to be blown up, especially when it is clearly on an upward trajectory. Something "we should all agree with", to use your thinking.

 

[sami]

And, relegated to The Pub, the place mods send threads to die.

This thread is just as tangentially about Vols football as, say, Diego Pavia's mom, or how the Rock got painted this week. Those threads live on for weeks or months in the Football Forum, but this thread--probably because it is less than 100% complimentary of how vn.com is managed--is shoved off into frozen hinterlands of the forums. Where far, far fewer people will ever see it.

I am distinctly not surprised. Anticipated the move, in fact.

Go Vols!

Really pathetic.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Separating all the negativity sounds great in theory, but it isn't practical.

You can get called a negavol in August for predicting 8-4 and then get called a pumper for extolling 9-3 in November.

Not that specific example, but I've been accused of being both a nega and a sunshine pumper over the years.

I think the issue is endemic of the internet (particularly social media) being driven by social media. Allow this aging Gen-X to yell at the clouds for a minute. It's all because of smart phones and wireless connectivity. The internet was better when it required a desk top and a wired connection. That small barrier of effort and foresight required for internet connectivity did more to filter out unhinged hot takes than anything mods could do.

I wish Volnation would lose the "Like" button, though.

I personally have rarely (I won't say never only because so many years on a web site like this, I've probably made every single mistake at least once) have rarely called someone an Eeyore for their season prediction, unless it was just stupid (like that fella who said we'll never go better than 7-5 again under Heupel). An 8-4 prediction, a 9-3, or a 10-2, I respect all those. I could even respect a 7-5 prediction for the upcoming season if the person were clearly sincere and had some logical foundation behind his belief. (i.e., not just trolling).

Where I label people Eeyores or Nega-Vols (I really dislike that term, but it is useful) is when they're down on our lads, or our coaches, or our program. Not just critical, though I do believe criticism should be offered in private, not on a public forum. Not just critical, but hateful--spiteful--vindictive. The way far too many of us were with Guarantano back in the day, as an example.

Those and the trolls are the real haters of these forums.

Go Vols!

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

I got to a restaurant and one of the workers is clearly not working hard and their effort is bringing down the entire restaurant.

Am I ok saying how I was disappointed with the restaurant or can only the management, coworkers say aomething about that employee?

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I got to a restaurant and one of the workers is clearly not working hard and their effort is bringing down the entire restaurant.

Am I ok saying how I was disappointed with the restaurant or can only the management, coworkers say aomething about that employee?

If the worker is serving you, personally, then sure. Make a note on the bill, or if you want to do it face to face, try to catch them at the server station away from others. In other words, criticize in private. Better yet, have a quiet talk with the restaurant manager, voicing your concern, and let the manager do his or her job: leadership.

I assume you''ve created this scenario as an analogy to how we interact with our football players when they do not play well. Not a great analogy, you can see how it quickly falls apart....but you _could_ posit that the players are also serving us. Not us personally, but the fan base as a whole. They don't work for us any more than the server at the restaurant works for you, but I think you could try to argue that they are serving us.

So, if you can contrive a way to get to the player in private, feel free to criticize him. Or better yet, contact his position coach and voice your concerns. Just don't blast your viewpoint out in a public forum (that they'll never see anyway).

That's about as good as we can make that analogy apply.

Go Vols!

 

[Go aeiou]

Moriarity​

Where's Sherlock when we need him?

 

[vader]

*Waves

 

[Volrocketman]

*Waves

Sorry, I just noticed that. Stinking autocorrect. I truly hate it when these devices think they're smarter than we are. And I'm a freaking rocket scientist.

Thanks to all of you for keeping the thread going today, even after it got moved to "the Pub." Never been here before so this is a new one for me. Just now reading most of the replies/posts as I spent the day heading to the game and just got back home (and i don't look at my phone during the game). A lot of good comments on both sides of the negativity issue; not sure there are any viable solutions. I was being facetious in my OP with regard to Freak creating a NegaVol-nation site or a LotM forum. Maybe I'll start using the "ignore" button to try to avoid some of the folks who seem to never have anything positive to say.

Today was a pretty good day - Vols won, ... and Bama lost. Strike up the band! Sleep well, Volnation.

 

[Tin Man]

The Pub, where members still wear glasses and discuss the emblems on their pocket protectors.