Third Quarter Woes

[37620VOL]

Corrected table with all 12 games:

Date	Opponent	Result	Q1 Diff	Q2 Diff	Q3 Diff	Q4 Diff	Total
Jan 1	vs. Florida	W 76–65	+10	-3	-4	+8	+11
Jan 4	at Auburn	W 73–56	+13	+2	+8	-6	+17
Jan 8	at Miss. State	W 90–80	+7	+3	+1	-1	+10
Jan 11	vs. Arkansas	W 85–50	+11	+2	+11	+11	+35
Jan 18	at #21 Alabama	W 70–59	-3	+10	-2	+6	+11
Jan 22	vs. #11 Kentucky	W 60–58	+4	+3	-6	+1	+2
Jan 29	vs. Miss. State	L 62–77	+3	-12	-8	+2	-15
Feb 5	at Georgia	W 82–77 (OT)	+1	+1	+2	-4	+5
Feb 8	at #3 S. Carolina	L 50–93	-7	-8	-15	-13	-43
Feb 12	vs. Missouri	W 98–53	+16	+15	+11	+3	+45
Feb 15	vs. #4 Texas	L 63–65	-8	+8	-3	+1	-2
Feb 17	at #17 Ole Miss	L 81–94	-6	+5	-11	-1	-13
Totals			+41	+26	-16	+17

Edited because @RetroVol and @Rooster1 noticed several games are omitted! Here is the original post for full disclosure in the quote area below:

Presented without commentary (SEC competition only):

Opponent	Result	Q1 Diff	Q2 Diff	Q3 Diff	Q4 Diff	Total Diff
vs. Florida	W +11	+10	-3	-4	+8	+11
at Alabama	W +11	-3	+10	-2	+6	+11
vs. Arkansas	W +35	+11	+2	+11	+11	+35
vs. Kentucky	W +2	+4	+3	-6	+1	+2
vs. Miss. State	L -15	+3	-12	-8	+2	-15
at #3 S. Carolina	L -43	-7	-8	-15	-13	-43
at #17 Ole Miss	L -13	-6	-5	-11	+9	-13
vs. #4 Texas	L -2	-2	+2	-8	+6	-2

 

[37620VOL]

Okay, maybe a little commentary, what is CKC doing to those poor kids at halftime?

 

[glv98]

Okay, maybe a little commentary, what is CKC doing to those poor kids at halftime?

Nothing productive that’s for sure. Kim herself has pointed out the third-quarter woes since the beginning of the season. I wonder what adjustment she’s made to the halftime routine to try to make it better.

 

[taylorvol]

Nothing productive that’s for sure. Kim herself has pointed out the third-quarter woes since the beginning of the season. I wonder what adjustment she’s made to the halftime routine to try to make it better.

I wonder does she just meet with the coaches during halftime and let the players talk amongst themselves? She basically has 2 separate huddles during every timeout. She treats the players as an afterthought during TOs. Is she doing the same during halftime? Very odd…

 

[glv98]

I wonder does she just meet with the coaches during halftime and let the players talk amongst themselves? She basically has 2 separate huddles during every timeout. She treats the players as an afterthought during TOs. Is she doing the same during halftime? Very odd…

To be fair, almost all coaches have the little staff meeting before stepping into the player huddle. Been doing it for a while. As far as what goes on at halftime I just hope she’s changed something up since it’s clearly not working. One of my fears about Kim is that she seems prone to keep forcing the square peg into the round hole instead of re-shaping the peg.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

IMO Kim probably has never had to deal with this kind of thing with players before, the moody lazy play head cases. Hope she is leaning on Barnes or someone whom she trusts for advice. She probably is doing that but it doesn't seem to be working with this bunch.

 

[glv98]

IMO Kim probably has never had to deal with this kind of thing with players before, the moody lazy play head cases. Hope she is leaning on Barnes or someone whom she trusts for advice. She probably is doing that but it doesn't seem to be working with this bunch.

She hand picked every one of these players except Coop and Boyd. She also had the option to ask any of them to leave before the season. She may have misjudged in recruiting, but this is her doing, not something being done to her.

I do agree she needs experienced advice but I’m surprised Gabe and Roman can’t provide that.

 

[Special Ed]

Is Candace Parker too retired now to qualify to come back to the NCAA to play for the Lady Vols?

 

[volsagain]

I wonder does she just meet with the coaches during halftime and let the players talk amongst themselves? She basically has 2 separate huddles during every timeout. She treats the players as an afterthought during TOs. Is she doing the same during halftime? Very odd…

She has a couple of bad apples . The couple of players that are causing most of the problems are very much needed. If they start the game off pretty well they play well but when they face early adversity they don't give much effort on defense. These players will be gone next year and guess we'll find out if replacements will preform better as a team. Probably too much subbing and using to much bench will ease some of the problems.

 

[glv98]

She has a couple of bad apples . The couple of players that are causing most of the problems are very much needed. If they start the game off pretty well they play well but when they face early adversity they don't give much effort on defense. These players will be gone next year and guess we'll find out if replacements will preform better as a team. Probably too much subbing and using to much bench will ease some of the problems.

Choose players more carefully? She built this roster.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

Choose players more carefully? She built this roster.

She is experiencing a tough lessons learned here. Big difference in recruiting D2 players and elite ones. Agree she made some evaluation misakes.

 

[RetroVol]

Presented without commentary (SEC competition only):

Opponent	Result	Q1 Diff	Q2 Diff	Q3 Diff	Q4 Diff	Total Diff
vs. Florida	W +11	+10	-3	-4	+8	+11
at Alabama	W +11	-3	+10	-2	+6	+11
vs. Arkansas	W +35	+11	+2	+11	+11	+35
vs. Kentucky	W +2	+4	+3	-6	+1	+2
vs. Miss. State	L -15	+3	-12	-8	+2	-15
at #3 S. Carolina	L -43	-7	-8	-15	-13	-43
at #17 Ole Miss	L -13	-6	-5	-11	+9	-13
vs. #4 Texas	L -2	-2	+2	-8	+6	-2

I get queasy when selected data is used to justify an argument.

 

[dognusty]

To me, it's a combination of coaching and players. I don't truly believe the players have the confidence in the coach, and I don't think the coach knows how to reach the players.

 

[cwbytruckers]

So much talk about what CKC is or isn't doing. What about the girls on the court half arsing it most of the time. During the Texas game she finally got into Coopers face about not getting back after a turnover. I have serious doubts this is all on the coach at this point. I'm not going to point out anyone specific because that's obviously against the law to Lady Vols fans. But there are more than one on this team when they get the ball they think its their sole priority as a player to be the next great player. And to be honest the role they are trying to play is completely out of their ability. I'm not sure what the team chemistry is like off the court but there sure seems to be some bad chemistry on the court. As far as the coaching goes I truely want this system to work. But playing the whole bench the way she is doing is killing the in game flow. Stop the full court pressure so that players can get back on defense and gather themselves and play solid half court D. Limit the bench to no more than 9 unless foul trouble sets in. Run most of the offense in and out to set up the shooters. We have plenty of good shooters they just take horrific shots sometimes. Set a rule that no shot goes up before its moved side to side at least three times unless someone is wide open under the rim or a good shooter is wide open for a really good look. The talent is there if utilized properly. My only fault with this system is I thought we had the players to run it. But obviously we don't have the post players needed to defend the basket when the press is broken or enough ball handlers to create their own shot without going wildly out of control which happens way to often. We have got to quit recruiting on athletic ability and start recruiting some all around players.

 

[madtownvol]

Okay, maybe a little commentary, what is CKC doing to those poor kids at halftime?

One hypothetical possibility:

Opposing coach at halftime--Okay they keep doing "A" and we can beat that if we starting more of "B." Let's hope they don't change tactics (rounds of laughter in locker room).

CKC at halftime - Okay team. Our opponent seems to be figuring out how to beat us doing "A."

So lets go out there and do "A" even "harder"!!!!

 

[37620VOL]

I get queasy when selected data is used to justify an argument.

Depends on why you select the sample. Is it to get the result you want, or is it to eliminate noise?

I selected only the SEC games to reduce the noise of a bunch of crappy OOC games, and there is the fact that the most recent games are more relevant than those played months ago. You might try sampling only the top 25 games? I thought of that, but figured the AI would have better accuracy with the clear delineation of an SEC schedule vs top 25 ranking at a certain point in time.

 

[volsagain]

Choose players more carefully? She built this roster.

No doubt I'm sure she's still learning at this level there can be ego problems. She's always coached players that were just glad to have a scholarship. And then again maybe didn't have the money to get who she wanted and took what she thought she could use. Tougher world at this level.

 

[volsagain]

Choose players more carefully? She built this roster.

And no one is perfect. Zee changed so much from last year it's hard to understand why. Barker is very talented and the type of player she really needed but she has a bit of ego . She's still learning at least she knows it takes better players than where she once was. Also she's probably never dealt with these types of players. She will learn from it and grow or be replaced.

 

[Rooster1]

Presented without commentary (SEC competition only):

Opponent	Result	Q1 Diff	Q2 Diff	Q3 Diff	Q4 Diff	Total Diff
vs. Florida	W +11	+10	-3	-4	+8	+11
at Alabama	W +11	-3	+10	-2	+6	+11
vs. Arkansas	W +35	+11	+2	+11	+11	+35
vs. Kentucky	W +2	+4	+3	-6	+1	+2
vs. Miss. State	L -15	+3	-12	-8	+2	-15
at #3 S. Carolina	L -43	-7	-8	-15	-13	-43
at #17 Ole Miss	L -13	-6	-5	-11	+9	-13
vs. #4 Texas	L -2	-2	+2	-8	+6	-2

Interesting, thx for doing that. Quick question, did the Georgia, Auburn, first MSU game and Missouri games look similar? Are they not included because UT outscored the opponent in the third?

 

[mudcat1973]

Is Candace Parker too retired now to qualify to come back to the NCAA to play for the Lady Vols?

That Alabama player had player different League than NBA.
Men's player.
South Carolina french player played in Europe league not WNBA.
They have not yet let players who had eligibility who played in the WNBA/NBA go back a finished there college eligibility out.

 

[RetroVol]

She's always coached players that were just glad to have a scholarship

And just wanted to play basketball. And willing to play "true team basketball" as one of them called it. I'm beginning to question what may be involved in getting such players who are also P4 talents. It's like a team of role players, some of whom just happen to be stars. The psychology may be the biggest barrier to Kim's system.

 

[RetroVol]

Depends on why you select the sample. Is it to get the result you want, or is it to eliminate noise?

I selected only the SEC games to reduce the noise of a bunch of crappy OOC games, and there is the fact that the most recent games are more relevant than those played months ago. You might try sampling only the top 25 games? I thought of that, but figured the AI would have better accuracy with the clear delineation of an SEC schedule vs top 25 ranking at a certain point in time.

At least take all SEC games. Might give the same result. My hunch matches yours -- we don't seem to do better after half-time. But I would like the criteria for selecting games established in advance.

Even then, we'd still have to consider a range of causes and see if we could discriminate between them

 

[glv98]

And just wanted to play basketball. And willing to play "true team basketball" as one of them called it. I'm beginning to question what may be involved in getting such players who are also P4 talents. It's like a team of role players, some of whom just happen to be stars. The psychology may be the biggest barrier to Kim's system.

Feels like constant shading of P4 players as lazy, selfish and money oriented. If only they were true blue as those sainted lower division players . . .

Here’s the thing, you could have a team of P4 cheetahs who are also Rebecca of Donnybrook Farm and this system wouldn’t work against top teams. The coaching and level of play by the opponents is just too good.

 

[glv98]

At least take all SEC games. Might give the same result. My hunch matches yours -- we don't seem to do better after half-time. But I would like the criteria for selecting games established in advance.

Even then, we'd still have to consider a range of causes and see if we could discriminate between them

Kim has said third qtr have been a problem all yr. As have starts to games.

Did you get a chance to do the subs from last night?

 

[madtownvol]

Feels like constant shading of P4 players as lazy, selfish and money oriented. If only they were true blue as those sainted lower division players . . .

Here’s the thing, you could have a team of P4 cheetahs who are also Rebecca of Donnybrook Farm and this system wouldn’t work against top teams. The coaching and level of play by the opponents is just too good.

Honestly, you would think that these blue collar, selfless, 100% team oriented, never take a play off, eat their vegetables, oh so eternally grateful D2 players (saints?) would easily defeat a team, composed of all those lazy, selfish, entitled, uncoachable, prima donnas playing D1 ball.

This morality tale always kills me. Players seldom get to this elite level with dedicating themselves to the game and being highly competitive and driven. People celebrate the work ethic in these same players afters wins only to trash them after losses.