Softball question: Any knuckleballers at this level?

[BruisedOrange]

...or is it too unpredictable to find the strike zone--or not hit the batter?
The release dynamics might be stressful on the arm, too.

Just curious if anyone had ever seen one over the years.

 

[volsagain]

...or is it too unpredictable to find the strike zone--or not hit the batter?
The release dynamics might be stressful on the arm, too.

Just curious if anyone had ever seen one over the years.

Just a crazy pitch ! Little story had a Uncle throw the knuckleball in modified softball 40 years ago done ok . The pitch either moved to much or very little. And yes very hard to keep it around the strike zone lot of walks and home runs. Much like a split finger baseball pitcher looks like a fat fastball but just drops to the dirt . Very few baseball players mastered the willy pitch .

 

[Majors]

...or is it too unpredictable to find the strike zone--or not hit the batter?
The release dynamics might be stressful on the arm, too.

Just curious if anyone had ever seen one over the years.

Closest I’ve seen is a bear claw change up. Ball in the palm, index to pinky middle phalanges across the ball…once released in front of the body close the hand motion comes up to the front of the face. It gets a small dance of movement but inconsistent on hitting spots. It’s a miss low pitch.

 

[lvocd]

Closest I’ve seen is a bear claw change up. Ball in the palm, index to pinky middle phalanges across the ball…once released on front of the body close the hand motion comes up to the front of the face. It gets a small dance of movement but inconsistent on hitting spots. It’s a miss low pitch.

I’m guessing hand size determines who can even try to learn that pitch. Is that right? It seems to me that it would take extra large and strong hands and fingers to pull it off reliably, and I suspect there aren’t that many young softball players who fit that bill.

I really don’t know — just guessing.

 

[volunator]

It would take a dang good catcher too

 

[Majors]

I’m guessing hand size determines who can even try to learn that pitch. Is that right? It seems to me that it would take extra large and strong hands and fingers to pull it off reliably, and I suspect there aren’t that many young softball players who fit that bill.

I really don’t know — just guessing.

That’s my belief too, most have small hands. Pitching coach Rick Pauly is who I knew who taught it. From my recollection he learned it from a pitching coach in CA whose name escapes me.

 

[lvocd]

I’d bet both Monica Abbott and Jennie Finch could have learned it because both have bigger hands than most. I noted early on that Karlyn Pickens‘ fingers are super long and, while they are also pretty thin, I imagine having those long fingers was a major factor in her success — as well as her height. (Same with Abbott and Finch) Being taller than most batters is a huge advantage when gathering force before release.

 

[BruisedOrange]

That’s my belief too, most have small hands. Pitching coach Rick Pauly is who I knew who taught it. From my recollection he learned it from a pitching coach in CA whose name escapes me.

Your post just brought back a forgotten childhood memory! From maybe the summer after 8th or 9th grade, playing slowpitch softball in a local neighborhood rec league... (shoutout to CYF--thanks for a great time growing up in the '60s!)

Sports Illustrated had run a feature article on Phil Niekro's knuckleball, and I was fascinated by the science. So I started messing with it, pitching in our "15-foot apex limit" league games. (I was about 5-11 then, if that tells anything about hand size)

I couldn't see if the ball danced, moving at such a slow velocity (an ump once told me it did), but what it did accomplish was to shift the apex so close to the plate that the ball would just die, and then drop almost straight down. If I kept my release point low enough to nearly scrape the dirt, I could drop it between the batter's front shoulder and his back knee.

Every team had a heavy hitter or two, baseball guys who played Babe Ruth League and were there to swing for the fences. Facing baseball pitches most every day of the summer, they just couldn't hold back long enough to let that fat, defenseless softball get down to the strike zone. They'd pull it so bad, we'd even shift our left fielder to straddling the foul line, but those guys would foul 8-10 pitches left of the fence before our fielder could snag one. One ump told our coach to bring extra game balls next time.

Maybe it was an effective pitch, but not a good way to gain popularity! Good athletes resented me for making them look silly at the plate. But even my own teammates would eventually get bored, finally yelling at me to "Just let him hit one!"

And hearing that really made those sluggers mad! (Because, as everyone knows, chicks dig the long ball--and those guys always had groupies in the crowd!)

Well... sorry that reminiscence went so long. But what a great era to grow up in! A cosmic "Thank you!" to all the adults who made those days possible for us kids.

 

[Majors]

Your post just brought back a forgotten childhood memory! From maybe the summer after 8th or 9th grade, playing slowpitch softball in a local neighborhood rec league... (shoutout to CYF--thanks for a great time growing up in the '60s!)

Sports Illustrated had run a feature article on Phil Niekro's knuckleball, and I was fascinated by the science. So I started messing with it, pitching in our "15-foot apex limit" league games. (I was about 5-11 then, if that tells anything about hand size)

I couldn't see if the ball danced, moving at such a slow velocity (an ump once told me it did), but what it did accomplish was to shift the apex so close to the plate that the ball would just die, and then drop nearly straight down. If I kept my release point low enough to nearly scrape the dirt, I could drop it between the batter's front shoulder and his back knee.

Every team had a heavy hitter or two, baseball guys who played Babe Ruth League and were there to swing for the fences. Facing baseball pitches most every day of the summer, they just couldn't hold back long enough to let that fat, defenseless softball get down to the strike zone. They'd pull it so bad, we'd even shift our left fielder to straddling the foul line, but those guys would foul 8-10 pitches left of the fence before our left fielder could snag one. One ump told our coach to bring extra game balls next time.

Maybe it was an effective pitch, but not a good way to grow popularity! Good athletes resented me for making them look silly at the plate. But even my own teammates would eventually get bored, finally yelling at me to "Just let him hit one!"

And hearing that really made those sluggers mad! (Because, as everyone knows, chicks dig the long ball--and those guys always had groupies in the crowd!)

Well... sorry that reminiscence went so long. But what a great era to grow up in! A cosmic "Thank you!" to all the adults who made those days possible for us kids.

That’s a good memory.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Just a crazy pitch ! Little story had an Uncle throw the knuckleball in modified softball 40 years ago done ok . The pitch either moved to much or very little. And yes very hard to keep it around the strike zone lot of walks and home runs. Much like a split finger baseball pitcher looks like a fat fastball but just drops to the dirt . Very few baseball players mastered the willy pitch .

A softball is pretty big to throw a knuckleball, especially for a woman. The seams are so big that one can make the ball “dance” without trying to throw a knuckleball.

 

[volsagain]

A softball is pretty big to throw a knuckleball, especially for a woman. The seams are so big that one can make the ball “dance” without trying to throw a knuckleball.

That's true with the speed there pitching. I've not heard of modified pitching in recent years. There was 2 softball leagues in our area you couldn't take the full windup or go above your shoulder or turn your body in a way to pitch sidearm. I'm guessing because we didn't have radar guns then but speeds between 30-40 mph . It was just a lot different than the slow rainbow pitches and awarded a lot of home runs.

 

[BruisedOrange]

IIRC, a baseball knuckleball actually performs better at a slower speed. Pretty sure Niekro used to say his worked best at 70-75 mph.
Given the overall size and larger seams of a softball...

Now I'm really curious!