4th Down

#1
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Big Orange 1

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#1
I am a high school football official. My position is line judge. Myself and the head linesman's job first and foremost is to get ALL spots. A spot is where the BALL is when the runner is ruled down.

The linesman last night was at eye level with the play. He knew in that situation that the spot was critical. He came in and spotted the ball where HE ruled the BALL was stopped when the play ended.

Has anyone (and I'm just asking) seen any footage where you can see where the ball landed? The QB looked like he surged past the line to gain, but where is the BALL.

I thought it had to be indisputable evidence before a ruling on the field could be overturned. The ONLY evidence could have been seeing the BALL. And I'm so sick and effn tired of these post, well you can't blame the game on THAT play, horses***!!! That was the ballgame, game, set, and match, period, end, done. If they didnt see the BALL in the booth, then it's plain and simple, we had the game taken away from us last night.
It doesn't matter how bad this guy or that guy played, we were robbed by the booth.

GBO
 
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#3
#3
Big Orange 1 said:
I am a high school football official. My position is line judge. Myself and the head linesman's job first and foremost is to get ALL spots. A spot is where the BALL is when the runner is ruled down.

The linesman last night was at eye level with the play. He knew in that situation that the spot was critical. He came in and spotted the ball where HE ruled the BALL was stopped when the play ended.

Has anyone (and I'm just asking) seen any footage where you can see where the ball landed? The QB looked like he surged past the line to gain, but where is the BALL.

I thought it had to be indisputable evidence before a ruling on the field could be overturned. The ONLY evidence could have been seeing the BALL. And I'm so sick and effn tired of these post, well you can't blame the game on THAT play, horses***!!! That was the ballgame, game, set, and match, period, end, done. If they didnt see the BALL in the booth, then it's plain and simple, we had the game taken away from us last night.
It doesn't matter how bad this guy or that guy played, we were robbed by the booth.

GBO
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Oh my gosh! You're right, I can't believe no one else has this argument. Especially on this boards. Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

If you can't tell that he got the first down, that's on you. Replays job is to get the play right, which they did. Stop complaining about wanting a terrible spot to stand.

I can't even imagine the wrath I would bring if that had been us getting the bad spot, and they upheld the call because they couldn't see the ball
 
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#4
#4
UT_Tix79 said:
Oh my gosh! You're right, I can't believe no one else has this argument. Especially on this boards. Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

If you can't tell that he got the first down, that's on you. Replays job is to get the play right, which they did. Stop complaining about wanting a terrible spot to stand.

I can't even imagine the wrath I would bring if that had been us getting the bad spot, and they upheld the call because they couldn't see the ball
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Grassy knoll and umbrella man posts are coming out.
 
#5
#5
More than half his body was across the line. Unless the ball was down by his knees then he got it.

But I agree about it being indisputable. I didn't see it but they talked about it on Sports Sound Off that there was an identical play in the FL game that was not over turned.

End of the day we missed our opportunities to put them away.
 
#6
#6
The OP is right. The position of the ball determines the spot, not the player. The rule reads that video evidence must be indisputable or the call on the field stands. Unless the booth had a helmet cam that the rest of the world could not see, I saw no replay that clearly showed the position of the ball.
 
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#9
#9
Dark days when the Vols need a 4th down call from the officials to win or lose a game against Vandy.

They could have also probably popped Johnson with 2-3 more unsportsmanlike penalties last night after he spun the ball but didn't either.
 
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#10
#10
jkleno said:
The QB was past the line to gain for a 1st down. It was correctly over turned.
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That's not what the OP was asking. He's asking where the ball is. The ball has to advance up to or past the 1st down marker. The qb's head may have crossed, but has anyone seen footage of where the the ball advanced to?
 
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#12
#12
I agree that he did get the 1st down, but I also agree that there was not indisputable evidence to overturn the spot. Rules are rules. You couldn't see where the ball was, therefore the evidence was not indisputable. Bottom line. It could have came out and been at his knees for all anybody knows. It's over now so there's no sense in complaining about it, but it was definately wrong. That being said, if roles were reversed and they gave us the 1st down after reviewing, we would be perfectly happy with that call. Either way, I'm sitting at work right now with swollen eyes because I was so pissed off I couldn't sleep last night. I'm not gonna say anything about players or coaches this year, but they better show me something next year and for God sakes we better beat Vandy next year!
 
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#14
#14
Some of you are missing my point. If they (the booth) did not see the ball, they could not have had indisputable evidence to overturn the ruling on the field. Dammit to hell, read the rule book!!!!
 
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#15
#15
JonGrudensAgent said:
Dark days when the Vols need a 4th down call from the officials to win or lose a game against Vandy.

They could have also probably popped Johnson with 2-3 more unsportsmanlike penalties last night after he spun the ball but didn't either.
Click to expand...

I approve this message...and likewise feel your utter phuggin disgust.
 
#16
#16
Big Orange 1 said:
I am a high school football official. My position is line judge. Myself and the head linesman's job first and foremost is to get ALL spots. A spot is where the BALL is when the runner is ruled down.

The linesman last night was at eye level with the play. He knew in that situation that the spot was critical. He came in and spotted the ball where HE ruled the BALL was stopped when the play ended.

Has anyone (and I'm just asking) seen any footage where you can see where the ball landed? The QB looked like he surged past the line to gain, but where is the BALL.

I thought it had to be indisputable evidence before a ruling on the field could be overturned. The ONLY evidence could have been seeing the BALL. And I'm so sick and effn tired of these post, well you can't blame the game on THAT play, horses***!!! That was the ballgame, game, set, and match, period, end, done. If they didnt see the BALL in the booth, then it's plain and simple, we had the game taken away from us last night.
It doesn't matter how bad this guy or that guy played, we were robbed by the booth.

GBO
Click to expand...


I'm glad someone here understands the rule! Call on the field was he was short, replay video was inconclusive. No evidence on the replay to overturn the spot. It should have been UT ball after the Vols stopped them on downs.

The replay official did not follow the rule, he reversed the call without any video evidence, and it cost UT a victory last night.
 
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#17
#17
jkleno said:
The QB was past the line to gain for a 1st down. It was correctly over turned.
Click to expand...

Can you see the ball on the replay? I can not just the player. If you can see the ball past the line to make then that is justification to reverse the call. But, I have yet to see that on the replay. Have you seen it?
 
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#18
#18
When I watched it live I assumed he got it to begin with. Was surprised at the spot. He went across the line. Either way how can you say its horse sh** to say this play cost the game? Vandy had multiple replays give us the ball. Vandy had ALL FOUR defensive backs injured and were still something like 14 quarters without a passin td. Yep it was all that play. We didn't even have a hundred passing yards against that decimated defense. We sucked.
 
#19
#19
BruiserVol said:
When I watched it live I assumed he got it to begin with. Was surprised at the spot. He went across the line. Either way how can you say its horse sh** to say this play cost the game? Vandy had multiple replays give us the ball. Vandy had ALL FOUR defensive backs injured and were still something like 14 quarters without a passin td. Yep it was all that play. We didn't even have a hundred passing yards against that decimated defense. We sucked.
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My OP was and STILL is. I am focusing on one play. The linesman spotted the ball. It's HIS call. They reviewed the play, the ball was not visible, therefore the ruling BY RULE cannot be overturned. Why is this so hard to understand? They blew it. Our ball, 2 kneel downs, game over. I dont care about how the rest of the game went. They blew the freakin call if no one saw the ball, it CANNOT be argued.
 
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#21
#21
Big Orange 1 said:
My OP was and STILL is. I am focusing on one play. The linesman spotted the ball. It's HIS call. They reviewed the play, the ball was not visible, therefore the ruling BY RULE cannot be overturned. Why is this so hard to understand? They blew it. Our ball, 2 kneel downs, game over. I dont care about how the rest of the game went. They blew the freakin call if no one saw the ball, it CANNOT be argued.
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I agree the spot should have never been overturned, the officials had a better view than any of the replays. The replays were inconclusive at best. No way it should have been overturned!

As for the two kneel downs, Vandy still had three timeouts, we would have needed a first down to win or a real good punt with 48 seconds left.
 
#22
#22
The OP is right, know one saw the ball including the replay official. We had a similar ruling go against us on our fourth down earlier in the game when it was clear that the player was past the first down marker but it was not overturned because you could not see the ball. Why there is no loud noise about this reversal which did not have visual evidence is that people are pissed that we didn't clean Vandy's clock and the coaching was bad. I am pissed to but the reversal "has" to have video evidence which they did not. Body yes, ball no. That reversal whether we liked how we played or not cost us the game.
 
#23
#23
jkleno said:
The QB was past the line to gain for a 1st down. It was correctly over turned.
Click to expand...

The game of football is literally about THE BALL.

Show me where the replay official saw it. You can't.

He made an assumption. Clearly that is not part of his duties.
 
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#24
#24
Big Orange 1 said:
Ok, so you saw the BALL cross the line to gain. Can you please show the film on here where you saw that. Thanks.
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No one in the stadium could see the ball cross the line to make neither could the cameras. So it's not on the film.

The camera man could only film it from the position of the official who marked it initially. And all the cameras were in the stadium, not on the field!
 
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