ACLU on the second amendment;

#1

gsvol

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#1
"The ACLU agrees with the Supreme Court's longstanding interpretation of the Second Amendment that the individual's right to bear arms applies only to the preservation of efficiency of a well-regulated militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected. Therefore, there is no constitutional impediment to the regulation of firearms."
 
#2
#2
I didn't know the supreme court had a "longstanding interpretation" like that.
So, if a state makes it illegal to buy and own a firearm the supreme court would likely opine that the law is constitutional?

I feel like I am missing something here.
 
#3
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I didn't know the supreme court had a "longstanding interpretation" like that.
So, if a state makes it illegal to buy and own a firearm the supreme court would likely opine that the law is constitutional?

I feel like I am missing something here.
Read it again, its means nothing would stand in the way of them taking your guns away faster. Might want to run on down too the next bill goodman's gun& knife show this year. I know i'm going down there to restock my ammo. I might buy them out.
 
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"The ACLU agrees with the Supreme Court's longstanding interpretation of the Second Amendment that the individual's right to bear arms applies only to the preservation of efficiency of a well-regulated militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected. Therefore, there is no constitutional impediment to the regulation of firearms."

What about the recent Supreme Count ruling.
On June 26th 2008, the court shoots down DC's ban on guns.

It certainly goes against the theme of this thread.
 
#7
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What does the ACLU have to do with it anyway? I mean, what they interpret about what "they felt" was interpreted for however long doesn't haul much water after Heller does it? SCOTUS flatly held that;

"The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf

Now the word "regulation" is tricky though. The opinion above for instance clearly states, in regard to the 2nd, that "It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever and for whatever purpose:". It then cites such examples as the regulation of concealed carry and possession of such weapons in "sensitive places such as schools and government buildings".

I'm sure there will be much wrangling over what "regulations" are constitutional or not in the future but from any angle I can see the ACLU is SOL on the right to possess firearms for lawful use not being protected.
 
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I'm with gasguy - I didn't know (or don't know) that this is the SC view?

It isn't, the ACLU is a communist party creation that fits the description given them by J.E Hoover, "masters of deceipt."

People who actually believe they are an organization for the preservation of American Civils liberties are deceived.

What about the recent Supreme Count ruling.
On June 26th 2008, the court shoots down DC's ban on guns.

It certainly goes against the theme of this thread.

I certainly hope we can have some Republican or 'break from the party line' Democrats opposing Obama appointments ACLU lawyers to the federal bench.

Remember, Ruth Bader Ginsberg, previously an ACLU honcho, was approved in the US Senate by a vote of 97-3.

What does the ACLU have to do with it anyway? I mean, what they interpret about what "they felt" was interpreted for however long doesn't haul much water after Heller does it? SCOTUS flatly held that;

"The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf

Now the word "regulation" is tricky though. The opinion above for instance clearly states, in regard to the 2nd, that "It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever and for whatever purpose:". It then cites such examples as the regulation of concealed carry and possession of such weapons in "sensitive places such as schools and government buildings".

I'm sure there will be much wrangling over what "regulations" are constitutional or not in the future but from any angle I can see the ACLU is SOL on the right to possess firearms for lawful use not being protected.

Don't forget airports and other public transportation locations.

One thing is for sure, the ACLU will continue to use it's vast amount of resources to eventually ban completely the ownership of any firearms by private citizens.
 
#9
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One thing is for sure, the ACLU will continue to use it's vast amount of resources to eventually ban completely the ownership of any firearms by private citizens.

Please tell me how they will do that.
 
#10
#10
Please tell me how they will do that.

lobby for Obama to appoint highly activist judges to not just the Supreme Court, but in all Federal judiciary positions.

with willing houses of congress and activist courts, the liberal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment will easily pass into law.
 
#11
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Please tell me how they will do that.

Litigation??? I hope you aren't trying to say the ACLU actually tries to protect the American citizen's civil liberty second amendment rights???

At the Eagle Forum session, lawyers discussed the need for a stronger focus on activist judges and the role the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) plays in breaking down traditional American society through lawsuits.

Schlafly, who has been an ardent anti-pornography activist, began the session in celebration of the Supreme CourtÂ’s first anti-porn decision since the 1960s, which said individuals can receive criminal penalties for promoting child pornography.

“The disappointing thing is that the government thinks that whatever some judge says is the law of the land,” said Schlafly. “It’s unfortunate that people think that judges are the royalty of our era.”

Steve Aden of the Alliance Defense Fund kicked off the morning with criticism of the Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which he classified as creating a “whole new class of thought crimes.”

“This bill would outlaw hateful thoughts against the ACLU’s preferred class of victims”, said Aden, adding that the ACLU is only a “leading advocate for moral lawlessness.”

In recent years, the ACLU has litigated to uphold the rights of minors to receive abortions without parental consent and fought for legalizing prostitution and the “right” to distribute obscene material without penalty. Aden charged that if the ACLU had its way, “America’s cities and towns would become red light districts.”

Sarah Seitz, legal director for the Liberty Center for Law and Policy at the Liberty University School of Law, expanded on some of the ACLU’s recent and outrageous cases, including the Veterans’ Memorials, Boy Scouts, Public Seals, and Other Public Expressions of Religion Protection Act of 2007. That Act amends U.S. statutes in a way that fails to protect constitutional expression of religion by state and local officials and allows people to seek damages and attorney’s fees. Seitz said, the bill essentially mandates that “someone can claim they are merely offended by sight of cross or allege a religious infraction based on an offense.”

In Relands, California, there is a pending ACLU case regarding the placement of a small cross on the city logo. In another case, a plaintiff is seeking $325,000 in a racial profiling suit and a high school junior sued his school for $32,500 after he was scolded for refusing to stand during the Pledge of Allegience.

She said the ACLU is able to intimidate groups into doing what they want because of the fear of the high cost of litigation that the ACLU can bring. In these civil rights or discrimination cases, a fee shifting statute exists where the losing party must pay the winning partyÂ’s fees. Many of the towns and organizations ACLU targets are relatively small. They cannot fund millions of dollars in litigation, or risk the potential losses. ACLU, which is funded by huge liberal donations (even from some companies who fear it) has no fear of losing, especially in cases brought in liberal courts.

The fee shifting statute gives majorly unbalanced favor toward the ACLU and without solid, constitutionalist judges in place, they will continue winning cases that encourage the breakdown of traditional values and constitutional rights.

The ACLU, Like the NAACP is a communist founded and inspired group who tell lies for their own purpose.

I initially in the post to head this thread, posted the ACLU position on the second amendment, which is just another calculated lie, the truth is this:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

The ACLU often cited this for the proposition that the court held that the Second Amendment only protected the right of the states` National Guard to have government issued arms (i.e., the “Collective Rights” theory). This is an untruth. In fact, the court held that the entire populace constituted the “militia,” and that the Second Amendment protected the right of the individual to keep and bear militia type arms.”

“All of the evidence indicates that the Second Amendment, like other parts of the Bill of Rights, applies to and protects individual Americans.”

“We conclude that the phrase ‘bear arms’ refers generally to the carrying or wearing of arms. . . [The] argument that ‘bear arms’ was exclusively, or even usually, used to only refer to the carrying or wearing of arms by a soldier or militiaman must be rejected.”

“We find that the history of the Second Amendment reinforces the plain meaning of its text, namely that it protects individual Americans in their right to keep and bear arms whether or not they are a member of a select militia or performing active military service or training.” Fifth Circuit of Appeals 2001

In 1840 the Supreme Court of Tennessee ruled that any citizen could go about armed as long as he wasn't doing so to create 'mayhem' and that decision has never been contested. In Tennessee a citizen does not need to have a 'concealed carry' license, I have personally proven this in court.
 
#12
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lobby for Obama to appoint highly activist judges to not just the Supreme Court, but in all Federal judiciary positions.

with willing houses of congress and activist courts, the liberal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment will easily pass into law.

I don't buy it, guns aren't going anywhere. Although I can see what you are getting at.

Also, I don't know that I would necessarily call both houses of Congress willing. There are still an awful lot of conservative Democrats in Congress.
 
#13
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I don't buy it, guns aren't going anywhere. Although I can see what you are getting at.

Also, I don't know that I would necessarily call both houses of Congress willing. There are still an awful lot of conservative Democrats in Congress.

If they were going to make a play on this though right now is the best shot they have. If things don't turn around in the next couple of years repubs will make some gains in the Senate.
 
#14
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GS,
I'm not disclaiming anything about what the ACLU would TRY to do but Heller put a real stomping on things. SCOTUS pretty much put the 2nd up there with the 1st. It's a friggin "right". You can't just do either anywhere any way you want (no yelling "fire" in a theatre for instance with the 1st) but Heller took an enormous bite out of the ambiguity people had been squabbling about with the 2nd.
 
#15
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GS,
I'm not disclaiming anything about what the ACLU would TRY to do but Heller put a real stomping on things. SCOTUS pretty much put the 2nd up there with the 1st. It's a friggin "right". You can't just do either anywhere any way you want (no yelling "fire" in a theater for instance with the 1st) but Heller took an enormous bite out of the ambiguity people had been squabbling about with the 2nd.

I agree!!

The Supreme Court therefore views the words “the people” in the Second Amendment to have the same meaning as in the First, Fourth, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments.

If “the people” really meant the right of states to maintain a militia, then we would be left with the absurd notion that only the states have the right to peaceably assemble, only the states have the right to be secure in their persons and property, etc.

The Supreme CourtÂ’s position is indisputable: the Second Amendment protects the individual right to bear arms.

Also instructive is the Report of the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, 97th Congress, Second Session (February 1982)


I dread the current regime's appointments to the federal courts.

Now that federal gun bans don't seem to be a viable alternative since they won't stand up in court,:

Lawmakers seek new gun legislation: Ammo control laws

Ammunition Accountability, a liberal gun control organization, has developed sample legislation to achieve its purposes and reports that versions of it have been introduced in the legislatures of Alabama, Arizona, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee and Washington.

At the federal level, H.R. 408 introduced by Rep. Robert Andrews (D-NJ) a new law would require firearms manufacturers to provide ballistics information on all new firearms to BATF, which would retain the information in a National Firearms Ballistics Database. Critics claim part of this bill will be used to mandate encoding ammunition, which is part and parcel of "ballistics" information.

It would provide that, after a specific date, all handgun and “assault weapon” ammunition manufactured or sold in the state shall be coded by the manufacturer, and would include a list of all calibers covered by the coding requirement. It would mandate the disposal by a certain date of all non-coded ammunition listed, whether owned by private citizens or retail outlets.

“According to an August poll conducted by Zogby International for Associated Television News, the American public rejects the notion that new gun control laws are needed by a two-to-one margin,”


Here is an interesting item from GOA in 1996.
 
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This should be watched by anyone who cares about their rights....

YouTube - The British called - They want their guns back!

I have some friends who are professionals and for many years went to some third world country at their own expense and provided free medical care each summer.

One year I asked them about that one year and they said they had taken a real vacation that year and visited friends in England.

I remarked that must have been a nice break but they said no, it depressing as heck.

They said that when darkness falls the elderly are prisoners in their own homes, the streets are roamed by thugs who commit strong arm robberies on those they think they can overpower.

Imagine "clockwork orange" in real life.

That was about ten years ago, I doubt things have gotten any better.
 
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I agree!!




I dread the current regime's appointments to the federal courts.

Now that federal gun bans don't seem to be a viable alternative since they won't stand up in court,:

Lawmakers seek new gun legislation: Ammo control laws




Here is an interesting item from GOA in 1996.

Certainly going after ammo would be the next best option for those so inclined as Heller directly addresses the right to possess firearms for lawful purposes, including (and specifically citing, which is important) self defense. Remember, any ban on ammunition is a de facto gun ban. A firearm is an expensive club or rock sans ammo. Try as they might the ACLU and their ilk would be sorely pressed to find a way around the two being, for purposes of function, one and the same. If you have a right to own X firearm (which Heller very much affirms) then you have a right to ammo to make it function for the lawful purposes set forth. As with the guns themselves though there are already certain regulations in place for ammo, armor piercing rounds for instance.

The two things I can see is a push to tax ammo to death, like cigarettes, and probably try to have some kind of limit as to how much ammo you can legally have. The latter may start with what is "on you" at any given time but they may try to extend to what you have at home as well. I expect them to start with the more "stylish" ammo if they can't wrangle it all at once; 223 (5.56 NATO), 308 (7.62 NATO) in rifles and 9mm, .40 & .45 in handgun.
 
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mini_gun.gif
 
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Somehow, I don't think I want a criminal with that sort of weapon.

IIRC there are two GE mini-guns legally available for sale in the US. I can't remember all the ins and outs of it but those two were procured legally and are in the civilian system. Unless I am mistaken they are the only two that ever have or will be available unless laws change. Transference would require registration with the BATF and a Class III license to remain legal. I think the going rate was, no kidding, upward of a quarter million.

I couldn't afford to feed the thing even if you gave it to me for free.
 
#22
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IIRC there are two GE mini-guns legally available for sale in the US. I can't remember all the ins and outs of it but those two were procured legally and are in the civilian system. Unless I am mistaken they are the only two that ever have or will be available unless laws change. Transference would require registration with the BATF and a Class III license to remain legal. I think the going rate was, no kidding, upward of a quarter million.

I couldn't afford to feed the thing even if you gave it to me for free.

I would imagine so....
 
#25
#25
Certainly going after ammo would be the next best option for those so inclined as Heller directly addresses the right to possess firearms for lawful purposes, including (and specifically citing, which is important) self defense. Remember, any ban on ammunition is a de facto gun ban. A firearm is an expensive club or rock sans ammo. Try as they might the ACLU and their ilk would be sorely pressed to find a way around the two being, for purposes of function, one and the same. If you have a right to own X firearm (which Heller very much affirms) then you have a right to ammo to make it function for the lawful purposes set forth. As with the guns themselves though there are already certain regulations in place for ammo, armor piercing rounds for instance.

The two things I can see is a push to tax ammo to death, like cigarettes, and probably try to have some kind of limit as to how much ammo you can legally have. The latter may start with what is "on you" at any given time but they may try to extend to what you have at home as well. I expect them to start with the more "stylish" ammo if they can't wrangle it all at once; 223 (5.56 NATO), 308 (7.62 NATO) in rifles and 9mm, .40 & .45 in handgun.

You are right on the money.

Check out this an interesting article.
 

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