America Today

#1
GASOUTHERNVOL

GASOUTHERNVOL

Ever drink Bailey's from a shoe?
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#1
In the 1630's John Winthrop refered to the new world, America (well before it was America) as a City on A Hill, or course alluding to the biblical reference.

Ronald Reagan further stated: You can call it mysticism if you want to, but I have always believed that there was some divine plan that placed this great continent between two oceans to be sought out by those who were possessed of an abiding love of freedom and a special kind of courage.....Sign that parchment. They may turn every tree into a gallows, every home into a grave and yet the words of that parchment can never die. For the mechanic in his workshop, they will be words of hope, to the slave in the mines -- freedom." And he added, "If my hands were freezing in death, I would sign that parchment with my last ounce of strength. Sign, sign if the next moment the noose is around your neck, sign even if the hall is ringing with the sound of headman’s axe, for that parchment will be the textbook of freedom, the bible of the rights of man forever."

have we fufilled that legacy? Can we honestly say that we are a city on a hill when we are allowing protection for pedafiles, and not protecting our soldiers? Saving murders from the death penalty, but aborting the innocent?
 
#2
#2
...when we discriminate based on sexual preference or religion? When we throw the ideals this country was founded on based on a perceived "terrorist" threat?
 
#3
#3
utvolpj said:
...when we discriminate based on sexual preference or religion? When we throw the ideals this country was founded on based on a perceived "terrorist" threat?
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there you must be refering to the media's love for bashing Miss California for passively stating her belief according to a principle that the country was founded upon.

and so, a person that intends to this country harm should be put up in a Sheardin and givin a continental breakfast? a soldier cant even raise his voice at the individual, even though a few hours earlier that person was trying to kill that soldier, and cause as much death to Americans as possible? once again, i fail to see how putting a rag in someones mouth and pouring water on them is torture, thats pretty mild considering, if you wanna see torture, look up pol pot, anything to do with concentration camps, look at the inqusitions, etc etc. its not like we are crucfying anyone,,,
 
#4
#4
Nothing you said had anything to do with my post. The terrorist threat thing had to do with the sweet doc called the Patriot Act and the other on the fundies fight to keep people from being happy and enjoying the rights they already do.

And speaking out in disagreement about someone's naive views is basically allowed in every US state.
 
#5
#5
utvolpj said:
Nothing you said had anything to do with my post. The terrorist threat thing had to do with the sweet doc called the Patriot Act and the other on the fundies fight to keep people from being happy and enjoying the rights they already do.

And speaking out in disagreement about someone's naive views is basically allowed in every US state.
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the patriot act was basically the consolidation of many laws already on the books, it just eliminated some interagency red tape BTW

what makes their POV naive? because they dont believe the same way you do, then that makes them naive, thats kinda being a hypocrit isnt it?

Plus the way she is being targeted by the media, is sayign the free speech is OK as long as you agree with the liberal point of view, anything else is bad. If you need another example, look at Sarah Palin's daughter, she is speeking out for abstinence, yet on every show she goes on it seems that they are trying to get her to say that her baby was a mistake...
 
#6
#6
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
Plus the way she is being targeted by the media, is sayign the free speech is OK as long as you agree with the liberal point of view, anything else is bad. If you need another example, look at Sarah Palin's daughter, she is speeking out for abstinence, yet on every show she goes on it seems that they are trying to get her to say that her baby was a mistake...
Click to expand...


She is allowed to say what she wants, and everybody else is allowed to say what they think about it. Freedom works both ways. Last I checked, she was never arrested or taken away.
 
#7
#7
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
the patriot act was basically the consolidation of many laws already on the books, it just eliminated some interagency red tape BTW
Click to expand...

I may need some help here, which law was it that eliminated due process?
 
#9
#9
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
please clarify, where was due process eliminated in the patriot act?
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I guess you are fine with the steps allowed the feds under this? You have no problem with being held without charges, wiretapped, no need for probable cause, etc?
 
#10
#10
utvolpj said:
I guess you are fine with the steps allowed the feds under this? You have no problem with being held without charges, wiretapped, no need for probable cause, etc?
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once again, where does it talk about the suspension of habeus corpus in the patriot act? i think you confusing this with the civil war lincoln administration
 
#11
#11
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
once again, where does it talk about the suspension of habeus corpus in the patriot act? i think you confusing this with the civil war lincoln administration
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it was a Pres order so I guess you got me there. :hi: You must have stayed at a Sheardin last night
 
#12
#12
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
the patriot act was basically the consolidation of many laws already on the books, it just eliminated some interagency red tape BTW

what makes their POV naive? because they dont believe the same way you do, then that makes them naive, thats kinda being a hypocrit isnt it?

Plus the way she is being targeted by the media, is sayign the free speech is OK as long as you agree with the liberal point of view, anything else is bad. If you need another example, look at Sarah Palin's daughter, she is speeking out for abstinence, yet on every show she goes on it seems that they are trying to get her to say that her baby was a mistake...
Click to expand...

There are major dangers posed by the Patriot Act. The first is that it reduces meaningful court oversight for law enforcement agents' invasion of people's privacy rights, such as telephone and computer communications, health and medical records, student records, business and financial transactions, etc.

It also shrouds much of the government's law enforcement activities in secrecy. So that if and when abuses occur, they are difficult or impossible to detect.

Normally, before Government agents could invade people's privacy in their homes, in their communications, and their various records, they needed to demonstrate to a judge that there is probable cause that the targeted person was involved in some sort of criminal wrongdoing or had evidence of a crime. The Patriot Act wipes out, for a whole category of investigations, the probable cause requirement and the meaningful judicial oversight.

For instance, the government could come in and search your home and download your computer information and get information from the library about what you've been reading and get your medical records - even if they cannot show that you are a criminal suspect - and they wouldn't have to tell you they had done all of that.

That is a very slippery slope in my opinion. All the government has to do is suspect you as a domestic terrorist and you no longer have rights.



Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin
 
#14
#14
lazy4163 said:
There are major dangers posed by the Patriot Act. The first is that it reduces meaningful court oversight for law enforcement agents' invasion of people's privacy rights, such as telephone and computer communications, health and medical records, student records, business and financial transactions, etc.

It also shrouds much of the government's law enforcement activities in secrecy. So that if and when abuses occur, they are difficult or impossible to detect.

Normally, before Government agents could invade people's privacy in their homes, in their communications, and their various records, they needed to demonstrate to a judge that there is probable cause that the targeted person was involved in some sort of criminal wrongdoing or had evidence of a crime. The Patriot Act wipes out, for a whole category of investigations, the probable cause requirement and the meaningful judicial oversight.

For instance, the government could come in and search your home and download your computer information and get information from the library about what you've been reading and get your medical records - even if they cannot show that you are a criminal suspect - and they wouldn't have to tell you they had done all of that.

That is a very slippery slope in my opinion. All the government has to do is suspect you as a domestic terrorist and you no longer have rights.



Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin
Click to expand...

i see your point of view, and i see where its coming from. But i also see where when stuff is going down, theres only a few seconds to make a definite decison. Dont get me wrong, im anti-big government,=. like i stated earlier, a lot of the stuff that the patriot act introduced was just consilidation of old laws on the books that were designed to go after organized crime, and they were mondernized
 
#15
#15
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
i see your point of view, and i see where its coming from. But i also see where when stuff is going down, theres only a few seconds to make a definite decison. Dont get me wrong, im anti-big government,=. like i stated earlier, a lot of the stuff that the patriot act introduced was just consilidation of old laws on the books that were designed to go after organized crime, and they were mondernized
Click to expand...

I completly respect from your coming from. I just worry about future Administrations when it comes to this.

It is something that could be abused very easily.

Hell I wish more Americans did enough research about their country to even have a side in this.
 
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#16
#16
lazy4163 said:
I completly respect from your coming from. I just worry about future Administrations when it comes to this.

It is something that could be abused very easily.
Click to expand...

yup... i mean honestly, whats the difference between that PAT act, and what J Edgar Hoover was doin (not talkin bout the cross dressin stuff either)
 
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