An alternative explanation for LVs struggles

[madtownvol]

They obviously looked like they weren’t ready. We thought we had them ready, did everything we have been doing the last three games,” Warlick said. “We’ve been hard on them, we’ve been tough on them but they just didn’t buy in today for some reason or another.

Let's think about this quote and its implications for the LVs major problems--poor shooting and lack of defensive effort/intensity.

The standard wisdom is that after a loss, the coaches need to get really tough, tough, tough on the players because, games are only lost when players have bad attitudes and are spoiled. So it is all about discipline and punishment to get the desired results. Back on the SUmmitt, a favorite phrase among some posters was "make them run till they puke" after every loss. If only public lashings were allowed, then we would see some good basketball...

Now let's question the standard wisdom by means of an analogy. You (as the embodiment of the LVs) are in a race to get from point A to B. Some people are on tricycles, you are riding a 3-speed speed bike, and several others are on motorcycles (fast ones). The race starts and you pull away from the tricycles but as hard you peddle, you just can't keep up with the motorbikes. Your family and friends observing the race accuse you of being a "mental midget," lazy, a prima donna and proclaims you just don't care or want "it" bad enough. You are put under a more demanding training regimen; you line up for the next race (same format); owing to fatigue, you have a tougher time staying ahead of the tricycles but you manage that. However, again you finish way behind the bikes. Those around you say, it is time to get tougher on you; You aren't getting message so we will double down on the hard training and let's add more screaming and finger pointing to "motivate" you. Next race, same result, repeat process again, same result; what is wrong with you, why don't you do what is being asked? just peddle harder to beat the motorbikes you lazy, self-entitled, bad attitude, selfish, mental midget.

Now to the LVs; perhaps they are working harder rather than smarter. The team can put all the effort in the world into their stagnant offensive scheme and mysterious defensive sets and not get good results. Training harder and getting tougher on the players is like banging your head against a wall; no tangible progress will be made. However, the LVs may get run down (physically and emotionally) so that easy shots don't fall and they look lackadaisical on defense. Sure enough, the tricycles come nipping at their heels (and sometimes pull ahead).

If not a new coach, a new system is needed. At least let the LVs bring a ten-speed to the race.

 

[cgbtn]

Holly's quote sounds exactly like Fulmer's tiresome mantra, "they (the team which had just beat him) did not do anything the coaching staff had not prepared our team for. The kids just didn't execute." When the fans got sick of listening to that, Fulmer was fired. I, for one, am sick of listening to Holly.

 

[gule]

eureka, we put em on motorcycles? season saved!


idiot

 

[gule]

holly rides a Harley, icydk

 

[gule]

maybe it's a Honda, but anyways a motorbike... doesn't help her coach much. lol

 

[CAVPUT]

Thinking too much Maddie. We have a dysfunctional roster. Instead of a "team", we have egos and attitudes that simply don't mesh with each other or the staff. We have a coach who is out of her depth and should be, quite frankly, a career assistant. When Pat left, UT made the wrong hire pure and simple.

 

[lovavol]

Sounds like you want to give them a blanky and sing lullabies. Nothing wrong with making them work. But Holly needs something. But I expected things to drop off, Pat leaving and wbb overall talent, there are alot of teams that are better.

 

[madtownvol]

eureka, we put em on motorcycles? season saved!


idiot

I love you too Gooley. Kissy, kissy.

 

[madtownvol]

Sounds like you want to give them a blanky and sing lullabies. Nothing wrong with making them work. But Holly needs something. But I expected things to drop off, Pat leaving and wbb overall talent, there are alot of teams that are better.

And lots of lollipops too!

No, I would like them to run a decent offensive scheme, rather than believing that more hard work invested in the current system will magically lead to success..

And believe it or not, you van overtrain athletes, which can lead to reduced performance.

There are different levels of intensity that one can have in training sessions.

But, bring on the lashing!!!!

 

[Rickster]

I agree with you that there are alternatives, and I do not profess to be a coach, but there are three things with the current offense that I think would make a huge difference:

1. Start making outside shots when they are wide open,
2. Stop forcing the ball inside/low when the post is not open,
3. Stop passing the ball from sideline to sideline. Use the high post more to get the ball across the court to the open shooter.

I think addressing 2 & 3 will reduce a lot of turnovers. I like highlight reel plays along with everyone else but would gladly trade that amazing pass for a shot made from 20 feet. Once that starts happening, the inside will be more open as teams will not be able to put three defenders on the post to stop the scoring.

 

[brassie]

Sounds like you want to give them a blanky and sing lullabies. Nothing wrong with making them work. But Holly needs something. But I expected things to drop off, Pat leaving and wbb overall talent, there are alot of teams that are better.

Things had started to "drop off" before Coach Summitt retired. I believe that she recognized that the system that had brought her so much success was now dated and she knew that she had to change it - hence the Harry Perretta friendship. I think her illness prevented her from making the changes.

It looks like Coach Warlick never got the "it's time for a system change" memo.

 

[Volfan2012]

I think it should be mandatory for ever player to put up 100 shots per day from the perimeter and a coach should be there watching to see who is making and missing. You become a better shooter with practice and I think none of these players do much other than mandatory practices. I can't see any of them being this bad if they put in the time.

 

[LadyVol1908]

I'm curious, do any of the posters who claim that the girls personalities doesn't match, and some are whiney, know these girls personally?

 

[madtownvol]

I agree with you that there are alternatives, and I do not profess to be a coach, but there are three things with the current offense that I think would make a huge difference:

1. Start making outside shots when they are wide open,
2. Stop forcing the ball inside/low when the post is not open,
3. Stop passing the ball from sideline to sideline. Use the high post more to get the ball across the court to the open shooter.

I think addressing 2 & 3 will reduce a lot of turnovers. I like highlight reel plays along with everyone else but would gladly trade that amazing pass for a shot made from 20 feet. Once that starts happening, the inside will be more open as teams will not be able to put three defenders on the post to stop the scoring.

On those points, one question is why are the LVs shooting so inexplicably bad. I find it hard to believe that players at this level don't practice shooting (which is the standard explanation on this board). I was at the Stetson game and watching Dunbar shoot during the half-time warm-up. She shot 3 consecutive air balls. Something is up.

So, my post is advancing the tired legs theory-- short bench and practices that keep doubling down on being more intense can lead to a fatigue build-up and hence no lift on shots. To clarify, altering the intensity of training does not mean moddly coddling players; it means not pushing them into the red zone. Sometimes being tired can look like not giving a best effort.

Perhaps related to this point, there is not much movement off the ball in their half court sets. I think that is why players keep trying to thread needles with their passing. Toward the end of Pat's coaching tenure, she seemed stuck in the idea of high-low basketball, not realizing that it is pretty easy to defend (for teams that can match your size and athleticism). Holly seems to be continuing that fixation.

For all the emphasis on defense, we are not that good. Teams can break our press pretty routinely because players are caught out of position. And our team defending in the half court too often breaks down.

More effort is not likely to solve either of these problems.

Where effort could make a difference is crashing the boards, if the LVs are going to shoot 30% they need to grab a heck of lot of offensive boards to stay in the game.

 

[madtownvol]

Things had started to "drop off" before Coach Summitt retired. I believe that she recognized that the system that had brought her so much success was now dated and she knew that she had to change it - hence the Harry Perretta friendship. I think her illness prevented her from making the changes.

It looks like Coach Warlick never got the "it's time for a system change" memo.

The Sally met Harry era began before Candace Parker stepped on campus. Once Parker, Bobbitt, and the gang got going, the offense became less of an overt problem. In all honesty,given the caliber of talent, that team should have been a more explosive offensive juggernaut. But, they had the players to compensate for limitations in the system sufficiently to bring home two titles.

I don't think the LVs have ever had a more tenacious defensive group either. When Parker, Hornbuckle, Bobbitt, Augustus, and Nicky A. decided to shut you down, you were shut down.

 

[madtownvol]

holly rides a Harley, icydk

FWIW, that is just the problem. Here is what the other coaches in the top 5 ride:

 

[Rickster]

On those points, one question is why are the LVs shooting so inexplicably bad. I find it hard to believe that players at this level don't practice shooting (which is the standard explanation on this board). I was at the Stetson game and watching Dunbar shoot during the half-time warm-up. She shot 3 consecutive air balls. Something is up.

So, my post is advancing the tired legs theory-- short bench and practices that keep doubling down on being more intense can lead to a fatigue build-up and hence no lift on shots. To clarify, altering the intensity of training does not mean moddly coddling players; it means not pushing them into the red zone. Sometimes being tired can look like not giving a best effort.

Perhaps related to this point, there is not much movement off the ball in their half court sets. I think that is why players keep trying to thread needles with their passing. Toward the end of Pat's coaching tenure, she seemed stuck in the idea of high-low basketball, not realizing that it is pretty easy to defend (for teams that can match your size and athleticism). Holly seems to be continuing that fixation.

For all the emphasis on defense, we are not that good. Teams can break our press pretty routinely because players are caught out of position. And our team defending in the half court too often breaks down.

More effort is not likely to solve either of these problems.

Where effort could make a difference is crashing the boards, if the LVs are going to shoot 30% they need to grab a heck of lot of offensive boards to stay in the game.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Pat4life]

You've never coached huh. The only thing and will always be the explanation when you have athletes, talented players... heart, they have to WANT too all the time.

Tired is a fatigue, which we call mental toughness, everyone is tired if you want to measure tiredness.

For our ladies its all mental. Why we know its mental cos we have seen them play good?

We have a team of mental midgets. Once we become tougher mentally and physically you will see a good product on the floor.

We were focus today!

 

[Pat4life]

One reason, when you have mentally midget team, you do things to challenge em mentally, like once before a conference game, coaches sometimes have a practice before a game, especially if you're playing a team your not too familiar with or a game that would be a challenge, you take your players legs before the games even starts.

Then you find who you're tough players are, who are mentally tough to push through fatigue mentally and physically, who will fold, and it do this periodically throughout the season, to toughen em up. Not saying that Holly does this, but this is one strategy coaches have used to get their team tougher.

 

[teacherdean]

No matter how hard you work players, if you are still doing the same old thing that does not work you will continue to get the same results.

 

[madtownvol]

You've never coached huh. The only thing and will always be the explanation when you have athletes, talented players... heart, they have to WANT too all the time.

Tired is a fatigue, which we call mental toughness, everyone is tired if you want to measure tiredness.

For our ladies its all mental. Why we know its mental cos we have seen them play good?

We have a team of mental midgets. Once we become tougher mentally and physically you will see a good product on the floor.

We were focus today!

Okay, I have competed at a high level (Olympic Trials) in track and field and have two kids who have been very successful in the world of soccer. i have been competitive athletics all my life and I can tell you that at the higher levels, "mental toughness" is generally not a discriminating factor. Most (not all) athletes at this level have conditioned themselves to push through fatigue but that does not mean it does not still negatively effect their performance.

These LV players are not "mental midgets."

Today was not so much about "focus" or toughness. I think Holly took some of the advice she got from the former LVs. The LVs offensive sets were entirely different. They were spacing the floor and that created passing lanes. And unlike the Fl game, the LVs hit open shots; it is a lot easier to win shooting 60% than 29%.

The reality is that auburn is not a good offensive team. If they can't get points off of turnovers and transition, they are not very dangerous. The LVs did a great job handling the press and by making shots, they took the transition game away.

 

[Pat4life]

lol. ok! See, if you are not competing or performing the way your capable of, in the world of athletic, we call that mental midgets, when you see players who are great athletes walking, not hustle, giving into fatigue, not pressing, not running the the offense or defense our coaches call, we call them mental midgets.

Its the same thing Holly has been running all year, finally Graves was aggressive and most of our guards were aggressive, the same offense, just ran with a purpose. They look like they wanted to find the best shot most of the nite.

If our ladies play Lady Vols basketball can be a dangerous, gotta bring it every night, today wasn't about focus. Ok.

Nice coaching job Holly!

 

[Pat4life]

(On effort tonight) Diamond Deshields

"It was very conscious. I have been lax the past few games. I know it. The team knows it. Everybody knows it. I'm tired of hearing it. I want to give my best every night. Tonight, when they jumped out on us, I knew all we had to do was put our foot forward first. That is what we did. I knew we were in better shape. I knew we would wear them out. In my mind, I said, 'You aren't tired. Give your best.' When I needed a break, I signaled over to the bench."

 

[LadyVol1908]

(On effort tonight)

"It was very conscious. I have been lax the past few games. I know it. The team knows it. Everybody knows it. I'm tired of hearing it. I want to give my best every night. Tonight, when they jumped out on us, I knew all we had to do was put our foot forward first. That is what we did. I knew we were in better shape. I knew we would wear them out. In my mind, I said, 'You aren't tired. Give your best.' When I needed a break, I signaled over to the bench."

Who said this?

 

[JrLittleVol]

Who said this?

Diamond