Analysis of TN Defense

#1
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tabrams

Supportin' the Cause
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#1
I am not a football expert, just a fan of football. However, after replaying several plays from the Auburn game and watching the games this season, this is what I've come up with....

1. Cam Sutton is our best cover DB since Janzen Jackson... He has the size and speed and overall athletic ability and timing to be elite and succeed at the new level.. However, he hasn't learned to be good in run support, and has trouble getting off WR blocks, being held, etc.

2. Justin Coleman in an average SEC corner, or slightly below average, and plays decent in coverage... He has decent speed, slightly undersized, and not good at getting off blocks or in run support.... Has minimal chance to make the league....

3. Our safeties are both very slow.... McNeil is slow and plays very dumb..... Randolph is slow but plays smart..... I don't think Randolph has gotten all of his speed back from the ACL year, and I don't think he was exactly a burner before the injury..... I don't think either can make the league bc lack of speed.....

4. Our nickels are small and slow and poor in run support...no names mentioned here...

5. Our outside LB are really bad against the run..... Sapp is excellent against the pass, as he's the best OLB coverage guy since Austin a few years ago, but he's really bad against the run.... Brewer is bad against it all, especially the run.... Brewer cannot get off a block, even a WR block, and that's sad... Brewer is slow, even for a LB. I can't believe he was ever a DB, as he probably runs a 4.8

6. AJ is a step or two slow, but he's having to cover for all 3 LBs on many of these plays, bc the other 2 LB are getting blocked or just can't tackle at all.....AJ is a solid tackler and a good athlete and will play in Sundays....

7. Our DT is a relative strength and our DE are average to slightly below average in the SEC

So what does this all mean??? Well, it's best to do 2 things against us....

1. Spread us out and the Qback can take off up the middle, and when our LB are in the wrong spots I r blocked then the Qback is in the 3rd level of our defense already......

2. Run inside or around the DEs and smoke the OLB, smoke the safety, and hit the accelerator..... In many if theses cases it's just run around the end and beat the safety or nickel and head to the endzone.......

I'm not convinced that coaching can help this for a few reasons... One is because were just very slow in those areas... Two is bc our players just play dumb in those positions... Some things you just can't teach.... If you don't know what I mean then go back and watch tape of Eric Berry filling gaps and destroying people... Those are the kinds of players that we need.....not players who run into the same spot as other defenders and leave a large gap on the sideline....if you guys really think the coaches are that dumb then I don't know what to tell you.....

Don't be surprised to see tons of freshman and jucos and new starters next year, as will have to be the case.....

Fulmer started this whole avalanche of rotten talent, Kiffins poured lighter fluid on it, then Dooley added nuclear waste to it... This will take 3-4 years minimum just to get this program headed back the right direction....
 
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#2
#2
I agree with most of what you said but the one thing I disagree with is the time it will take. With good recruiting, we can fix most of our problems in two years max with a lot of improvement next year. However, it will take some QUALITY recruits to make this happen and I think CBJ is on the correct path!
 
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#3
#3
Agree to most of this, but I don't think it will take 3-4 years. Improvement next year with this class and 2015 we should be competitive...JMO
 
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#4
#4
From what I see he does not have even decent speed. He has been beaten deep multiple times. He is actually not a bad tackler once he hits someone but he is so slow he often does not get there.
 
#5
#5
Are you talking about Justin Coleman?
I would say he runs a 4.6, maybe slightly under.... I think he has decent speed and quickness but he get out muscled at the line and bites on some moves.... He lacks recovery speed and I'm surprised that they didn't move him to nickel.....

I think he would be a nickel but he's also not a great tackler, but better than Swafford I would think...our options are very limited, I mean we have track guys that nobody ever heard of and walk ins in our 2 deep at DB...
 
#6
#6
Poor recruiting leads to poor results. No difference maker at DE for several years. Vereen may become one. Jordan Williams is an example of Dooley..
 
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#7
#7
tabrams said:
I am not a football expert, just a fan of football. However, after replaying several plays from the Auburn game and watching the games this season, this is what I've come up with....

1. Cam Sutton is our best cover DB since Janzen Jackson... He has the size and speed and overall athletic ability and timing to be elite and succeed at the new level.. However, he hasn't learned to be good in run support, and has trouble getting off WR blocks, being held, etc.

2. Justin Coleman in an average SEC corner, or slightly below average, and plays decent in coverage... He has decent speed, slightly undersized, and not good at getting off blocks or in run support.... Has minimal chance to make the league....

3. Our safeties are both very slow.... McNeil is slow and plays very dumb..... Randolph is slow but plays smart..... I don't think Randolph has gotten all of his speed back from the ACL year, and I don't think he was exactly a burner before the injury..... I don't think either can make the league bc lack of speed.....

4. Our nickels are small and slow and poor in run support...no names mentioned here...

5. Our outside LB are really bad against the run..... Sapp is excellent against the pass, as he's the best OLB coverage guy since Austin a few years ago, but he's really bad against the run.... Brewer is bad against it all, especially the run.... Brewer cannot get off a block, even a WR block, and that's sad... Brewer is slow, even for a LB. I can't believe he was ever a DB, as he probably runs a 4.8

6. AJ is a step or two slow, but he's having to cover for all 3 LBs on many of these plays, bc the other 2 LB are getting blocked or just can't tackle at all.....AJ is a solid tackler and a good athlete and will play in Sundays....

7. Our DT is a relative strength and our DE are average to slightly below average in the SEC

So what does this all mean??? Well, it's best to do 2 things against us....

1. Spread us out and the Qback can take off up the middle, and when our LB are in the wrong spots I r blocked then the Qback is in the 3rd level of our defense already......

2. Run inside or around the DEs and smoke the OLB, smoke the safety, and hit the accelerator..... In many if theses cases it's just run around the end and beat the safety or nickel and head to the endzone.......

I'm not convinced that coaching can help this for a few reasons... One is because were just very slow in those areas... Two is bc our players just play dumb in those positions... Some things you just can't teach.... If you don't know what I mean then go back and watch tape of Eric Berry filling gaps and destroying people... Those are the kinds of players that we need.....not players who run into the same spot as other defenders and leave a large gap on the sideline....if you guys really think the coaches are that dumb then I don't know what to tell you.....

Don't be surprised to see tons of freshman and jucos and new starters next year, as will have to be the case.....

Fulmer started this whole avalanche of rotten talent, Kiffins poured lighter fluid on it, then Dooley added nuclear waste to it... This will take 3-4 years minimum just to get this program headed back the right direction....
Click to expand...



I wish our fans would recognize this the things they do wrong is not coaching
 
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#8
#8
I agree with a lot of your analysis. But I think Sutton is probably better in run support than you think. I've seen him come up and make some nice hits.

I also don't believe we're 3 to 4 years away. 2015 is the year we should start demanding some results. Dobbs will be a junior and all the young linemen we have and the ones we're getting will be ready to play at a high level. Next year may not be much better than this year. We'll be extremely young and inexperienced next season.
 
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#9
#9
TruTennVol said:
I agree with a lot of your analysis. But I think Sutton is probably better in run support than you think. I've seen him come up and make some nice hits.

I also don't believe we're 3 to 4 years away. 2015 is the year we should start demanding some results. Dobbs will be a junior and all the young linemen we have and the ones we're getting will be ready to play at a high level. Next year may not be much better than this year. We'll be extremely young and inexperienced next season.
Click to expand...

I think Sutton has made some tackles, but overall he has been close to lock down against the pass..... However, if you watch the film, he can't get off blocks when guys are holding him.....

I think a year in the strength program will help him a lot...he is an elite athlete who will continue to get better....

In the old days we would have redshirted him and worked on his tackling.... There is a reason TN used to be great against the run...
 
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#10
#10
all I know is that in the last 3 years and the next 3 years, I estimate we will have a total of 3 defensive NFL draft picks in a 6 year span. So far, just Malik Jackson in the 5th round in 2012. 3 in 6 years and guys expect us to compete with teams loaded with nfl talent.
In the 6 yr span of '95-'00, we had 20 nfl draft picks on defense alone. That just so happens to be our best times as a program with the fastest defenses we have ever had.
 
#13
#13
tabrams said:
Are you talking about Justin Coleman?
I would say he runs a 4.6, maybe slightly under.... I think he has decent speed and quickness but he get out muscled at the line and bites on some moves.... He lacks recovery speed and I'm surprised that they didn't move him to nickel.....
Click to expand...

And replace him with....?
 
#14
#14
@OP

I agree with most, but I think Brewer has good speed for an LB and has been doing pretty well actually. Sapp is not that bad against the run either, he is one of the better defensive players, not that this is saying much.

Finally, I don't think Randolph is that slow, but maybe he still has not completely recovered from the ACL. I would put him only behind Sutton in the secondary...and maybe ahead based on game experience and savvy. Either way I am glad he is only a RS soph.

What's interesting is that we have 7-8 DBs committed for this next recruiting class. :crazy:

Butch clearly knows we need help back there!
 
#15
#15
I think that was a very good analysis OP...can't really disagree with any of it except that I think we will see a huge improvement as soon as next year...esp if we hold on to all our recruits...we got some huge talent coming in at huge positions of need!...GBO!!!!
 
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#16
#16
Maybe McNeil is have a sophomore slump. He was one of the bright spots last year and was one of the few player who did play fast. I wouldn't write him off yet. He's only a sophomore he should make huge strides this off season and get back to playing with speed like he use to.
 
#17
#17
tabrams said:
I am not a football expert, just a fan of football. However, after replaying several plays from the Auburn game and watching the games this season, this is what I've come up with....

1. Cam Sutton is our best cover DB since Janzen Jackson... He has the size and speed and overall athletic ability and timing to be elite and succeed at the new level.. However, he hasn't learned to be good in run support, and has trouble getting off WR blocks, being held, etc.

2. Justin Coleman in an average SEC corner, or slightly below average, and plays decent in coverage... He has decent speed, slightly undersized, and not good at getting off blocks or in run support.... Has minimal chance to make the league....

3. Our safeties are both very slow.... McNeil is slow and plays very dumb..... Randolph is slow but plays smart..... I don't think Randolph has gotten all of his speed back from the ACL year, and I don't think he was exactly a burner before the injury..... I don't think either can make the league bc lack of speed.....

4. Our nickels are small and slow and poor in run support...no names mentioned here...

5. Our outside LB are really bad against the run..... Sapp is excellent against the pass, as he's the best OLB coverage guy since Austin a few years ago, but he's really bad against the run.... Brewer is bad against it all, especially the run.... Brewer cannot get off a block, even a WR block, and that's sad... Brewer is slow, even for a LB. I can't believe he was ever a DB, as he probably runs a 4.8

6. AJ is a step or two slow, but he's having to cover for all 3 LBs on many of these plays, bc the other 2 LB are getting blocked or just can't tackle at all.....AJ is a solid tackler and a good athlete and will play in Sundays....

7. Our DT is a relative strength and our DE are average to slightly below average in the SEC

So what does this all mean??? Well, it's best to do 2 things against us....

1. Spread us out and the Qback can take off up the middle, and when our LB are in the wrong spots I r blocked then the Qback is in the 3rd level of our defense already......

2. Run inside or around the DEs and smoke the OLB, smoke the safety, and hit the accelerator..... In many if theses cases it's just run around the end and beat the safety or nickel and head to the endzone.......

I'm not convinced that coaching can help this for a few reasons... One is because were just very slow in those areas... Two is bc our players just play dumb in those positions... Some things you just can't teach.... If you don't know what I mean then go back and watch tape of Eric Berry filling gaps and destroying people... Those are the kinds of players that we need.....not players who run into the same spot as other defenders and leave a large gap on the sideline....if you guys really think the coaches are that dumb then I don't know what to tell you.....

Don't be surprised to see tons of freshman and jucos and new starters next year, as will have to be the case.....

Fulmer started this whole avalanche of rotten talent, Kiffins poured lighter fluid on it, then Dooley added nuclear waste to it... This will take 3-4 years minimum just to get this program headed back the right direction....
Click to expand...

I agree and disagree. I agree about your assessment insofar as all of the weaknesses, CB, S, OLB, and DE.

I disagree on how long it will take to recover. It will take one year to get the program headed in the right direction, two years to really start winning, and three to really be there.

With all of the weaknesses on D, we agree that there is no speed or tackling ability in the secondary. Well Gaulden, McDowell, and Kelly have speed and tackling ability. Payne, Moseley and the Berrys have speed and can tackle. The secondary will be much better next year. All of those guys, plus Randolph another year, and healthier, as well as Riyadh Jones.

At OLB Bates, Weatherd and Mouhon can all play out there, AND Maggitt will be back.

We have a problem at DE. Well Vickers, Brown, Miller are redshirting, and then you have Lambert, Hendrix, Barnett, Henderson, and Mixon capable of playing there. Then there is another year for Vereen and Lewis. That's 10 very capable guys, with Vereen the only one playing now.

Because of these factors, we will be in the right direction next year. Also everyone starting next year on offense will be back in 2015 except Downs, a good thing, and Lane, if he starts. That will be a very good offense in 2015.

On D, Coleman won't start next year, so the whole secondary and the whole D line will be back for 2015. Of the linebackers, Maggitt will be a redshirt Jr next year so he may be gone, and AJ, if he returns next year will be gone. Weatherd would be back, and you would probably be looking at Bates at the other OLB, and then you have to find a MLB, Mouhon, Grant ?? Bottom line in the whole defense should be better, save the MLB, though I believe that the way we are recruiting with a top 5 MLB, Cecil Cherry, plus next year's class, we will be able to replace AJ fairly well.
 
#19
#19
tabrams said:
I am not a football expert, just a fan of football. However, after replaying several plays from the Auburn game and watching the games this season, this is what I've come up with

... This will take 3-4 years minimum just to get this program headed back the right direction....
Click to expand...

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I think this pretty much sums up what you've said. :thumbsup:

swisscheese.jpg
 
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#20
#20
BanditVol said:
@OP

I agree with most, but I think Brewer has good speed for an LB and has been doing pretty well actually. Sapp is not that bad against the run either, he is one of the better defensive players, not that this is saying much.

Finally, I don't think Randolph is that slow, but maybe he still has not completely recovered from the ACL. I would put him only behind Sutton in the secondary...and maybe ahead based on game experience and savvy. Either way I am glad he is only a RS soph.

What's interesting is that we have 7-8 DBs committed for this next recruiting class. :crazy:

Butch clearly knows we need help back there!
Click to expand...

Sapp is much better than Brewer.... Sapp has decent speed but is not good on run support.. He might be playing hurt, but I've watched Brewer just get burned and can't get off any blocks.....brewer is much slower than you'd think....Randolph was slow last year too....

If you think that our OLB and safeties are fast, then go back and watch film of Eric Berry, Raynoch Thompson, Jerod Mayo, etc... Even Janzen Jackson...

These guys played with a reckless abandon, with extreme closing speed... And when they hit, they hit like a ton of bricks .... Look at LSUs defense and that's silmiliar to what TN defense used to look like, and it looks nothing like that now..... Our outside speed is terrible, although Can Sutton has been the big bright spot....
 
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#21
#21
On the punt for a TD against Auburn, Sapp got burned by the punt returner and gave up on the play ... If he had hustled he might have caught him when he cut back...

Totally unacceptable to be giving up on plays......maybe these players are playing too many snaps? No depth?? I don't know but they look really slow either way.....
 
#23
#23
GBOVOLS said:
Maybe McNeil is have a sophomore slump. He was one of the bright spots last year and was one of the few player who did play fast. I wouldn't write him off yet. He's only a sophomore he should make huge strides this off season and get back to playing with speed like he use to.
Click to expand...

McNeil is really slow. His 40x are the same as auburns qb supposedly. But he was outrun very badly, wasnt even close. He is getting recruited over. Jmo of course.
 
#24
#24
what our Problem is goes further than the players. You have got to be able to change your schemes week in and out . We are the most predictable team in the SEC and That reflects on our Rookie Schemes .I have watched us on Defense have Zero guys in the Middle, and on 3rd and 4 be LineD up 12 yds off the WR's . It looked like we never watched a tape on Auburn. Kinda silly to be "We have a proven system at Cincy" and think for a minute it will work against the best coaches in football here in the SEC.
 
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#25
#25
The_topis_Rocky89 said:
I wish our fans would recognize this the things they do wrong is not coaching
Click to expand...

It's not coaching... You can't win your assignments if you are physically inferior. We are physically inferior. I wish you and a few others that don't know what you're talking about would recognize this.

Edit: Oops My apology!!! we are saying the same thing I think. I misread your post. :hi:
 
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