Answer me this.

[volfanIND]

While we are only in the position to give our opinions and none of us can 'deliver' answers, my opinion does have me searching for answers.

My concerns are these:
In the Texas Game, I watched a team just struggling the whole time. Two steps behind. I didn't get to watch the UTC game, but from reading the comments it was the same exact thing. In the last 10 minutes of the game I saw no leadership.
1. When was a timeout ever called by Tenn bench?
2. Why did Moore play 5 minutes? The girl hasn't been able to "prove" herself against real post players yet, last night was her chance to do so. I agree that cupcake teams make anybody look great, but have you seen her play against Lang? None of us did, so none of us still don't know how she will do against stiff competition.
3. Why did this go unnoticed? Massengale, 2-8, 1-5, 4 fouls, 0 assist, 3 turns, = 40 minutes (CPS would of (1) gave her the stare (2)put her on the bench next to her (3) gave her an ear full (4) tell her she loves her (5) give her the plan to fix it
4. Why was CHW more upset with the refs than her own players?
... those are rhetorical questions ....

My real question that I am asking my self, as a LVF since the mid 90's, is:

1. I understand that CHW is not CPS, but the program is still the same, so is it not okay to expect/demand the same results?

Their will never be another CPS sadly. But can't you copy the same coaching methods? Obviously none of us are at the practices so we don't know what is being said, what is being done. We knew in CPS days ... if one of her teams played like that, we knew exactly what practice was going to be like. In my opinion, I think Holly is too light on them.
I'm not on the bandwagon to fire CHW. In basketball you have bad games and good games. But as a basketball player, basketball coach, and basketball fan/spectator, I just saw sooo many mistakes last night that I'm looking at CHW to fix them. It's her job. Bottom line.
At the end of the season is the right time to have a conversation about the future of the program/coaching, not after 6 games. That's not fair. Again, let's say it was a bad game.

Is anybody else having similar thoughts? (again, not wanting to start a bandwagon thread to fire CHW)

 

[Decker Moss]

While we are only in the position to give our opinions and none of us can 'deliver' answers, my opinion does have me searching for answers.

My concerns are these:
In the Texas Game, I watched a team just struggling the whole time. Two steps behind. I didn't get to watch the UTC game, but from reading the comments it was the same exact thing. In the last 10 minutes of the game I saw no leadership.
1. When was a timeout ever called by Tenn bench?
2. Why did Moore play 5 minutes? The girl hasn't been able to "prove" herself against real post players yet, last night was her chance to do so. I agree that cupcake teams make anybody look great, but have you seen her play against Lang? None of us did, so none of us still don't know how she will do against stiff competition.
3. Why did this go unnoticed? Massengale, 2-8, 1-5, 4 fouls, 0 assist, 3 turns, = 40 minutes (CPS would of (1) gave her the stare (2)put her on the bench next to her (3) gave her an ear full (4) tell her she loves her (5) give her the plan to fix it
4. Why was CHW more upset with the refs than her own players?
... those are rhetorical questions ....

My real question that I am asking my self, as a LVF since the mid 90's, is:

1. I understand that CHW is not CPS, but the program is still the same, so is it not okay to expect/demand the same results?

Their will never be another CPS sadly. But can't you copy the same coaching methods? Obviously none of us are at the practices so we don't know what is being said, what is being done. We knew in CPS days ... if one of her teams played like that, we knew exactly what practice was going to be like. In my opinion, I think Holly is too light on them.
I'm not on the bandwagon to fire CHW. In basketball you have bad games and good games. But as a basketball player, basketball coach, and basketball fan/spectator, I just saw sooo many mistakes last night that I'm looking at CHW to fix them. It's her job. Bottom line.
At the end of the season is the right time to have a conversation about the future of the program/coaching, not after 6 games. That's not fair. Again, let's say it was a bad game.

Is anybody else having similar thoughts? (again, not wanting to start a bandwagon thread to fire CHW)

Don't worry that wagon took off awhile ago.

 

[madtownvol]

I know toward the end CPS was struggling with her health issues but in the post-Candace Parker era, there were signs that her coaching approach was not as effective as it had once been. The take away the locker room and other punishments did not magically transform the team. I can recall after losses (even under CPS) there was always a vocal group who wanted the coach run "till they puked" and other draconian measures, so that the team would learn their lesson. That is frustrated fan thinking and it assumes that a loss is equivalent to bad behavior -- versus the team not being sufficiently prepared. The Lvs have been outplayed in the last 2 games. Players don't seem to know their roles and under pressures, they make all kind of mistakes. I don't think this is so much about individual effort as it not playing as a cohesive team.

 

[Darth_Vol]

If you don't have serious concerns about the direction of the program, then you aren't paying attention.

This isn't just overzealous fans overreacting to one or two losses. As Holly is well into her third year as head coach, I think we're starting to get a pretty clear picture of what she is and what she isn't.....

 

[madtownvol]

If you don't have serious concerns about the direction of the program, then you aren't paying attention.

This isn't just overzealous fans overreacting to one or two losses. As Holly is well into her third year as head coach, I think we're starting to get a pretty clear picture of what she is and what she isn't.....

Why did you interpret my post as saying that there are no serious concerns about the program.

What I said is that after losses, there are always fan who think the answer is punishing players-- take away their locker room, do lots of running. Did you notice where I said the players don't know their roles and the team is not playing as a cohesive unit? I thought it would be obvious that those are causes for serious concern.

 

[FrozenLVFan]

I know toward the end CPS was struggling with her health issues but in the post-Candace Parker era, there were signs that her coaching approach was not as effective as it had once been. The take away the locker room and other punishments did not magically transform the team. I can recall after losses (even under CPS) there was always a vocal group who wanted the coach run "till they puked" and other draconian measures, so that the team would learn their lesson. That is frustrated fan thinking and it assumes that a loss is equivalent to bad behavior -- versus the team not being sufficiently prepared. The Lvs have been outplayed in the last 2 games. Players don't seem to know their roles and under pressures, they make all kind of mistakes. I don't think this is so much about individual effort as it not playing as a cohesive team.

I think we have 3 separate problem areas, all inter-related...

1) Individual effort/performance, e.g. players who can't make a layup, players who won't get down in the right defensive stance, players who can't make their free throws.

2) Team cohesion. We've heard about team dinners, and moving into the same dorm, and a bunch of other team-building activities. They all practice together every day. Some have been playing together for years, HS, AAU, and now college. But in games, they look like they have no idea how the others will move or play, leading to TO's, and some of them get frustrated and just chuck the ball up themselves. Lack of help-defense is another example.

3) Poor coaching, e.g. offensive sets, use of time-outs, player substitution, etc. This is the over-riding factor, because a poor coach can't resolve the first two problems. And some of the coaching blame has to lie with the assistant coaches, and the conditioning coach. They're responsible for the little things like our repeated failure to get the ball at opening tip, and being too tired to make FT's. Holly's responsible for failing to motivate the players out of problem 1), and completely responsible for failing to coach the team out of problem 2).

Overall, we've got a hot mess, and it's going to take a lot of work to get all these different issues resolved.

 

[WVU05UT09]

The issue from my vantage point is this and its a repeat of some comments made by other posters on this website--we are incapable from either a personnel or coaching standpoint of running anything in the half court.

Our mantra has been for years to use our defense and rebounding to destroy opponents. Those things are still very important but they won't alone win championships. Teams have to have the personnel and coaching expertise to execute in the half court and we seem to have neither. When I say execute in the half-court I believe the standard is UConn and Notre Dame from recent years. The way they seamlessly move the ball through the offense and the player movement. It is so nice to watch quite honestly.

I have no idea what was going on at Texas. To even call that anything remotely close to a half court offense is a joke and embarrassment.

I personally think Holly needs to cut Dean Lockwood and Jolette Law loose and hire some new fresh talent with significant experience in half court offense.

 

[madtownvol]

I think we have 3 separate problem areas, all inter-related...

1) Individual effort/performance, e.g. players who can't make a layup, players who won't get down in the right defensive stance, players who can't make their free throws.

2) Team cohesion. We've heard about team dinners, and moving into the same dorm, and a bunch of other team-building activities. They all practice together every day. Some have been playing together for years, HS, AAU, and now college. But in games, they look like they have no idea how the others will move or play, leading to TO's, and some of them get frustrated and just chuck the ball up themselves. Lack of help-defense is another example.

3) Poor coaching, e.g. offensive sets, use of time-outs, player substitution, etc. This is the over-riding factor, because a poor coach can't resolve the first two problems. And some of the coaching blame has to lie with the assistant coaches, and the conditioning coach. They're responsible for the little things like our repeated failure to get the ball at opening tip, and being too tired to make FT's. Holly's responsible for failing to motivate the players out of problem 1), and completely responsible for failing to coach the team out of problem 2).

Overall, we've got a hot mess, and it's going to take a lot of work to get all these different issues resolved.

That is a spot on assessment. Of the three, getting Izzy back should help with #2. The LV's half court is built around high low ball movement and without Izzy, they don't have the anchor point post player to make it all work. In lieu of that, you have a mix of standing around, low percentage jump shots, and frenetic one-on-one plays.

Per 3, we can only hope that the coaching staff will up their game.

Per 1, at this point, players not getting into defensive stances and getting into position to cut off driving lanes and box is disconcerting. I don;'t think it is just an effort problem as much it is a preparation problem (which points back to the coaching staff). On the bright side, Graves and Carter are doing the right things so perhaps others will follow their lead.

 

[djtee]

While we are only in the position to give our opinions and none of us can 'deliver' answers, my opinion does have me searching for answers.

My concerns are these:
In the Texas Game, I watched a team just struggling the whole time. Two steps behind. I didn't get to watch the UTC game, but from reading the comments it was the same exact thing. In the last 10 minutes of the game I saw no leadership.
1. When was a timeout ever called by Tenn bench?
2. Why did Moore play 5 minutes? The girl hasn't been able to "prove" herself against real post players yet, last night was her chance to do so. I agree that cupcake teams make anybody look great, but have you seen her play against Lang? None of us did, so none of us still don't know how she will do against stiff competition.
3. Why did this go unnoticed? Massengale, 2-8, 1-5, 4 fouls, 0 assist, 3 turns, = 40 minutes (CPS would of (1) gave her the stare (2)put her on the bench next to her (3) gave her an ear full (4) tell her she loves her (5) give her the plan to fix it
4. Why was CHW more upset with the refs than her own players?
... those are rhetorical questions ....

My real question that I am asking my self, as a LVF since the mid 90's, is:

1. I understand that CHW is not CPS, but the program is still the same, so is it not okay to expect/demand the same results?

Their will never be another CPS sadly. But can't you copy the same coaching methods? Obviously none of us are at the practices so we don't know what is being said, what is being done. We knew in CPS days ... if one of her teams played like that, we knew exactly what practice was going to be like. In my opinion, I think Holly is too light on them.
I'm not on the bandwagon to fire CHW. In basketball you have bad games and good games. But as a basketball player, basketball coach, and basketball fan/spectator, I just saw sooo many mistakes last night that I'm looking at CHW to fix them. It's her job. Bottom line.
At the end of the season is the right time to have a conversation about the future of the program/coaching, not after 6 games. That's not fair. Again, let's say it was a bad game.

Is anybody else having similar thoughts? (again, not wanting to start a bandwagon thread to fire CHW)

I said it last night Massengale, 2-8, 1-5, 4 fouls, 0 assist, 3 turns, 40 minutes was a problem.

 

[terrypedigo]

Simple would you want to play for Holly or Geno, plus Holly cant coach the truth hurts sometimes.:cray:

 

[gule]

hey Dave Hart. Save UT some money, Fire the whole LV staff & hire a never coached before recent phys ed grad. Can't do any worse than HW.... Maybe lightning will strike twice....

 

[Darth_Vol]

Why did you interpret my post as saying that there are no serious concerns about the program.

What I said is that after losses, there are always fan who think the answer is punishing players-- take away their locker room, do lots of running. Did you notice where I said the players don't know their roles and the team is not playing as a cohesive unit? I thought it would be obvious that those are causes for serious concern.

I didn't interpret it that way at all, I thought you nailed it pretty well. I only wanted to add that some might make a counter-argument that many fans are overreacting after a couple of games. This has been building for a couple of seasons now.

Sorry it was poorly worded on my part, I completely agree with what you're saying...

 

[madtownvol]

I didn't interpret it that way at all, I thought you nailed it pretty well. I only wanted to add that some might make a counter-argument that many fans are overreacting after a couple of games. This has been building for a couple of seasons now.

Sorry it was poorly worded on my part, I completely agree with what you're saying...

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[teacherdean]

Mad town you are on the money, things have changed since the glory days of the Lady Vols and you have to change with the times. I think Holly should remain as is until the end of this season. When the season ends an evaluation should take place. Next year would be the perfect time for a change if things just does not get any better or seem as if the program is headed in the wrong direction. If a change is called for, we need to consider going outside of the family. The problem right now is we are coaching a style that does not fit our personnel. What we are are doing is Glory Day coaching from the past. The real issue may be that Holly does not know how to coach differently we have to remember that she has only been exposed to Pat 's coaching philosophy for the last 30 plus years. Maybe she feels uncomfortable doing anything different. It would work if we had two 6'7" athletic post players.k:

 

[volfanIND]

You guys bring up great points. It's early in the season, so that is a positive thing. It's clear what has to be worked on in order to be a final four contender. We have time, I just hope the coaching leadership has the ability to prove themselves and make it happen. NCAA tourney isn't tomorrow. While I'm not in a mad dash to say it's time to replace anybody yet, the recent events does put the thought in our heads!

 

[mgnelson88]

hey Dave Hart. Save UT some money, Fire the whole LV staff & hire a never coached before recent phys ed grad. Can't do any worse than HW.... Maybe lightning will strike twice....

I'd gladly take it...small HS bball coach haha. My HS girls run a better offense than what CHW has them running in the half court. Wish they would all play with same intensity as Draya Carter. Kid's a special athlete.

 

[btate]

Mad town you are on the money, things have changed since the glory days of the Lady Vols and you have to change with the times. I think Holly should remain as is until the end of this season. When the season ends an evaluation should take place. Next year would be the perfect time for a change if things just does not get any better or seem as if the program is headed in the wrong direction. If a change is called for, we need to consider going outside of the family. The problem right now is we are coaching a style that does not fit our personnel. What we are are doing is Glory Day coaching from the past. The real issue may be that Holly does not know how to coach differently we have to remember that she has only been exposed to Pat 's coaching philosophy for the last 30 plus years. Maybe she feels uncomfortable doing anything different. It would work if we had two 6'7" athletic post players.k:

Maybe Holly took some time off during the summer and fall or been sliding up to the bar during the summer. Remember how Phil Fulmer would rest and take time off. Where did the rest get him?

 

[madtownvol]

Thanks Teacherdean. My views on Holly have gone back and forth. When she was first hired, I thought it was a bad move-- a life long assistant is not the person you want running the show. But in her first year, I thought the offense looked more fluid than it had under CPS in her final years and the players did not seem to bottled up and afraid to make mistakes.

In hindsight, I think that first year might have been an aberration because the LVs now have the stilted offense of old plus a lackluster defense on top of that.

At minimum, the team needs new blood at the assistant level. I would keep Kyra but look for replacements for Lockwood and Law.

 

[armchair]

Warlick should resign soon--fall on her sword for the program she clearly loves. She doesn't have it as a head coach, and i dont think her staff is terribly astute either. Meanwhile,im tempted to see say that she should bench Massengale. I was excited to see her as a freshman--vols finally had a talented point guard--but just doesn't play well enough--doesnt create scoring chances for others and doesnt lead. She might be a victim of our inept offense, but Warlick needs to get more out of our guards.

 

[PineyBluff Vol]

I know toward the end CPS was struggling with her health issues but in the post-Candace Parker era, there were signs that her coaching approach was not as effective as it had once been. The take away the locker room and other punishments did not magically transform the team. I can recall after losses (even under CPS) there was always a vocal group who wanted the coach run "till they puked" and other draconian measures, so that the team would learn their lesson. That is frustrated fan thinking and it assumes that a loss is equivalent to bad behavior -- versus the team not being sufficiently prepared. The Lvs have been outplayed in the last 2 games. Players don't seem to know their roles and under pressures, they make all kind of mistakes. I don't think this is so much about individual effort as it not playing as a cohesive team.