Atlanta Braves II

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#7,102
#7,102
Blake25p said:
Maybe the most underrated player in baseball and he's a perennial all-star.
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Four straight Silver Sluggers. Four straight. That's damn impressive at any position. Not too mention he's as durable as they come.
 
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#7,103
#7,103
GAVol said:
Any lineup with Constanza hitting above 7th means somebody is either hurt or in a deeeeeeeep slump.
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I just like the guy and the way he played in August as a starter. He hit .342 for the month. There are certainly better "candidates" on paper for the two-hole on the team, but none them showed us anything at all last year. The top of the line-up was a mess last year. I don't know why we should expect anything different this year until proven otherwise.
 
#7,106
#7,106
Blake25p said:
If he can keep that up he'll be in Cooperstown, am I crazy to say that?
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With catchers, it's all about durability, so let's have a little projection time.

In six full years, he's caught 128 games every year.

He's averaging 22 homers and 86 RBI's, with a slash line of 287/.359/.491. His OPS is .850, and OPS+ is 124.

Now, he's second in WAR for catchers since 2006, behind Joe Mauer. He leads catchers in homers, RBI's, and doubles (quick note: Martinez is techinically first, but he's been DH during for the last three years for some of that time). He's average defensively, so that won't help or hurt his case.

Now, here's come the projections. McCann is about to enter a baseball player's prime. So let's say he stays healthy, and bump his numbers pre-injury in 2011, where he was having his best season, and on pace for a 30/90 year. So we'll put put it at 28/90, with a slash line of .290/.370/.500 for age 28-32 seasons (five years).

That would give him 140 homers, and 450 RBI's. So, for his career up to that point, 276 homers and 987 RBI's, with a pretty good slash line of .290/.365/.495

I think, if he gets 300 homers and 1200 RBI's to finish out his career, he gets in if he stays healthy and durable.
 
#7,107
#7,107
TBrown said:
However I don't think Bourn is as good as people are making him out to be.
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Still the best leadoff option we have had in years by a long shot.. he gets on base and can get around in a hurry. Lot of value in that especially with our runs are a high premium offense
 
#7,108
#7,108
zjcvols said:
With catchers, it's all about durability, so let's have a little projection time.

In six full years, he's caught 128 games every year.

He's averaging 22 homers and 86 RBI's, with a slash line of 287/.359/.491. His OPS is .850, and OPS+ is 124.

Now, he's second in WAR for catchers since 2006, behind Joe Mauer. He leads catchers in homers, RBI's, and doubles (quick note: Martinez is techinically first, but he's been DH during for the last three years for some of that time). He's average defensively, so that won't help or hurt his case.

Now, here's come the projections. McCann is about to enter a baseball player's prime. So let's say he stays healthy, and bump his numbers pre-injury in 2011, where he was having his best season, and on pace for a 30/90 year. So we'll put put it at 28/90, with a slash line of .290/.370/.500 for age 28-32 seasons (five years).

That would give him 140 homers, and 450 RBI's. So, for his career up to that point, 276 homers and 987 RBI's, with a pretty good slash line of .290/.365/.495

I think, if he gets 300 homers and 1200 RBI's to finish out his career, he gets in if he stays healthy and durable.
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Wish we wouldn't have got knicked last year.. he was on pace for career year. I could easily see him hittin .290with 25 to 30 dings, may be the year he breaks 100 ribs
 
#7,109
#7,109
zjcvols said:
With catchers, it's all about durability, so let's have a little projection time.

In six full years, he's caught 128 games every year.

He's averaging 22 homers and 86 RBI's, with a slash line of 287/.359/.491. His OPS is .850, and OPS+ is 124.

Now, he's second in WAR for catchers since 2006, behind Joe Mauer. He leads catchers in homers, RBI's, and doubles (quick note: Martinez is techinically first, but he's been DH during for the last three years for some of that time). He's average defensively, so that won't help or hurt his case.

Now, here's come the projections. McCann is about to enter a baseball player's prime. So let's say he stays healthy, and bump his numbers pre-injury in 2011, where he was having his best season, and on pace for a 30/90 year. So we'll put put it at 28/90, with a slash line of .290/.370/.500 for age 28-32 seasons (five years).

That would give him 140 homers, and 450 RBI's. So, for his career up to that point, 276 homers and 987 RBI's, with a pretty good slash line of .290/.365/.495

I think, if he gets 300 homers and 1200 RBI's to finish out his career, he gets in if he stays healthy and durable.
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I think he'll put up the numbers but like you said can he stay healthy enough to so.
 
#7,110
#7,110
Vercingetorix said:
Chipper is just as likely (maybe more likely) to hit .260 and miss 50 games as he is to be productive. Freeman is likely to endure some kind of a sophomore slump. Either Prado or Heyward is likely not to rebound like the Braves would expect. The SS is likely to be an out machine after basically making a jump from AA.

My point isn't that the Braves won't be competitive; they've got a nice team with, as you say, a lot of upside. My complaint is that there's a lot of predictable risk with this lineup, and the Braves haven't done anything to prepare for it. They're counting on "upside" at over half the positions in the field. A team that's serious about winning looks at this lineup and knows that it has to go into the season with better guys on the bench than stiffs like Matt Diaz and Jose Constanza.
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Hey! Matty tears up lefties, and the sophomore slump IF is just as big as any other IF's that you have mentioned. I am glad we can agree there is a lot of upside. I do wish we did have some back up plans to the if's but i do not think there many options that were worth giving up any of out pitching.
 
#7,111
#7,111
slh1089 said:
Hey! Matty tears up lefties, and the sophomore slump IF is just as big as any other IF's that you have mentioned. I am glad we can agree there is a lot of upside. I do wish we did have some back up plans to the if's but i do not think there many options that were worth giving up any of out pitching.
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Matty doesn't tear up anything but hamburgers. He hit 0 hrs last year. This isn't the Matt Diaz you remember, and you probably remember him better than he actually was.
 
#7,112
#7,112
TBrown said:
Matty doesn't tear up anything but hamburgers. He hit 0 hrs last year. This isn't the Matt Diaz you remember, and you probably remember him better than he actually was.
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Don't be so pessimistic. Braves make the playoffs this year, and if that happens we all know its a different game once the team makes the playoffs. Cough..2011 Cardinals..Cough.
 
#7,113
#7,113
slh1089 said:
Don't be so pessimistic. Braves make the playoffs this year, and if that happens we all know its a different game once the team makes the playoffs. Cough..2011 Cardinals..Cough.
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I am very optimistic when it comes to Braves baseball but Matt Diaz is terrible. If Chipper or anyone in the OF goes down, we're in trouble. Diaz and Constanza are not answers. Hinske isn't an every day play.
 
#7,114
#7,114
TBrown said:
I am very optimistic when it comes to Braves baseball but Matt Diaz is terrible. If Chipper or anyone in the OF goes down, we're in trouble. Diaz and Constanza are not answers. Hinske isn't an every day play.
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Yeah, i guess they could make a mid season move. The benefit of that is you get to go after someone who is producing then and not speculating and hoping the person you got in the offseason will produce.
 
#7,115
#7,115
TBrown said:
I am very optimistic when it comes to Braves baseball but Matt Diaz is terrible. If Chipper or anyone in the OF goes down, we're in trouble. Diaz and Constanza are not answers. Hinske isn't an every day play.
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I'd really like to see a small time move where they bring in an Omar Infante type that can play the OF and handle an inning or two at SS.

What I really wanted was a legit bat in LF so that Prado could be the super sub.
 
#7,116
#7,116
GAVol said:
I'd really like to see a small time move where they bring in an Omar Infante type that can play the OF and handle an inning or two at SS.

What I really wanted was a legit bat in LF so that Prado could be the super sub.
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The big markets have priced all the upper tier players off the common market. This can be countered by smaller markets by offering up groups of young prospects. It appears that Wren is of the mindset that his farm talent is better to hold onto presently, obviously.

But, I am with you. A solid bat in left would solidify the lineup.
 
#7,117
#7,117
Saw an article today where the Braves finished 2011 $4 million in the red due to a one time expense of paying Cleveland $10 million to get out of Derek Lowe's contract. As far as this year goes, they've still got about $4 million to play with in salary.
 
#7,118
#7,118
GAVol said:
Saw an article today where the Braves finished 2011 $4 million in the red due to a one time expense of paying Cleveland $10 million to get out of Derek Lowe's contract. As far as this year goes, they've still got about $4 million to play with in salary.
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The Yankees have only $4 billion to throw around.
 
#7,119
#7,119
GAVol said:
I'd really like to see a small time move where they bring in an Omar Infante type that can play the OF and handle an inning or two at SS.

What I really wanted was a legit bat in LF so that Prado could be the super sub.
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That's the one move the Braves absolutely had to make this year, and their failure to make it is why I'd argue that they're not really serious about winning. It doesn't exactly take Nostradamus to predict right now, in February, that the fourth outfielder is going to have to start at least 70 games this year, between backing up Prado, backing up Heyward, and effectively backing up Chipper when Prado has to play 3B for long stretches at a time. And yet the Braves appear to be willing to go into this season with that fourth outfielder being either Diaz or Constanza.

Maybe the plan is to go through a whole extra spring with the young pitchers to figure out which one they'd prefer to move, and then swing a deal once the season starts. I hope so. This is a team with a legitimate chance to win this season, and the whole reason you acquire more pitching prospects than you can possibly use is to give you flexibility in a Win Now year. Wren needs to make a move.
 
#7,120
#7,120
Vercingetorix said:
That's the one move the Braves absolutely had to make this year, and their failure to make it is why I'd argue that they're not really serious about winning. It doesn't exactly take Nostradamus to predict right now, in February, that the fourth outfielder is going to have to start at least 70 games this year, between backing up Prado, backing up Heyward, and effectively backing up Chipper when Prado has to play 3B for long stretches at a time. And yet the Braves appear to be willing to go into this season with that fourth outfielder being either Diaz or Constanza.

Maybe the plan is to go through a whole extra spring with the young pitchers to figure out which one they'd prefer to move, and then swing a deal once the season starts. I hope so. This is a team with a legitimate chance to win this season, and the whole reason you acquire more pitching prospects than you can possibly use is to give you flexibility in a Win Now year. Wren needs to make a move.
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I agree. I think waiting to make a mid season deal makes the most sense though. 1. For the reasons youbstated about judging the young pitching prospects. 2. They can evaluate who they are going to make the move a lot better in mid season and acquire someone they know is producing right now. Also, the braves really just did not have the money to make a big move.
 
#7,121
#7,121
slh1089 said:
I agree. I think waiting to make a mid season deal makes the most sense though. 1. For the reasons youbstated about judging the young pitching prospects. 2. They can evaluate who they are going to make the move a lot better in mid season and acquire someone they know is producing right now. Also, the braves really just did not have the money to make a big move.
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They have the money, or at least they would if they weren't laboring under disembodied corporate ownership that doesn't give a crap about anything more than winning enough to maintain the brand value. Millions of dollars came off the payroll in the last few years and simply wasn't replaced. One of the big reasons attendance has been down in recent years is that fans aren't stupid; it's obvious that the team is willing only to do the absolute minimum. Why fully invest in a team that isn't willing to do the same?

The problem with waiting until midseason to make a deal is that by then they'll have already left 3-5 games on the table. When you play in a division with a prohibitive favorite and are therefore competing with almost half the teams in the league, you can't afford to dick around for three months before you fix a weakness that was so obvious ahead of time.
 
#7,125
#7,125
Vercingetorix said:
They have the money, or at least they would if they weren't laboring under disembodied corporate ownership that doesn't give a crap about anything more than winning enough to maintain the brand value. Millions of dollars came off the payroll in the last few years and simply wasn't replaced. One of the big reasons attendance has been down in recent years is that fans aren't stupid; it's obvious that the team is willing only to do the absolute minimum. Why fully invest in a team that isn't willing to do the same?

The problem with waiting until midseason to make a deal is that by then they'll have already left 3-5 games on the table. When you play in a division with a prohibitive favorite and are therefore competing with almost half the teams in the league, you can't afford to dick around for three months before you fix a weakness that was so obvious ahead of time.
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We were hanging with te Phillies a majority of the time last season and had a commanding wild card lead going into September. So I don't believe they are just sitting around wasting time if they wait and see what they truly need mid season. If I remember correctly , I believe I read an article by Dave Obrien that discussed the fact that the team would not have as much money to spend as believed. Also, a team that by all means should have been in the playoffs last year has upgraded in some aspects with the return of some from injuries. Therefore, I believe they can afford to "wait and see."
 
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