Auto maker CEOs flew to washington in private jet

[droski]

really sends the right message guys. :lolabove: and there certainly aren't any commercial flights from LA to DC. No none.

ABC News: Big Three CEOs Flew Private Jets to Plead for Public Funds

All three CEOs - Rick Wagoner of GM, Alan Mulally of Ford, and Robert Nardelli of Chrysler - exercised their perks Tuesday by flying in corporate jets to DC. Wagoner flew in GM's $36 million luxury aircraft to tell members of Congress that the company is burning through cash, asking for $10-12 billion for GM alone.

 

[TennTradition]

Man....you would think their PR people would make sure this didn't happen...it look's so bad and doesn't help their cause at all....

 

[lawgator1]

I have to tell you droski, I watched some of the hearing yesterday in the early evening on CNBC and I was not much impressed at all with what I saw. They came across as arrogant and unwilling to commit to whatever they had to do to secure the government's help. Saw some later commentary on that channel that really made me wonder if this is a good idea.

Its a complicated issue and I don't know near enough. But reality is that I'd say its not looking good for them and maybe it is indeed inevitable that they go under.

 

[droski]

Man....you would think their PR people would make sure this didn't happen...it look's so bad and doesn't help their cause at all....

exactly what i was thinking. they all came from the LA auto show. how much time is a private jet really saving? it's just stupid.

I have to tell you droski, I watched some of the hearing yesterday in the early evening on CNBC and I was not much impressed at all with what I saw. They came across as arrogant and unwilling to commit to whatever they had to do to secure the government's help. Saw some later commentary on that channel that really made me wonder if this is a good idea.

Its a complicated issue and I don't know near enough. But reality is that I'd say its not looking good for them and maybe it is indeed inevitable that they go under.

the people who didn't impress me were the congressmen. some of the most stupid questions i've ever heard in my life. the CEOs have to try to scare the crap out of people to get money, but still argue that their business is viable. very difficult to do. i still don't understand how wagner (gm ceo) has kept his job though.

 

[dan4vols]

I have to tell you droski, I watched some of the hearing yesterday in the early evening on CNBC and I was not much impressed at all with what I saw. They came across as arrogant and unwilling to commit to whatever they had to do to secure the government's help. Saw some later commentary on that channel that really made me wonder if this is a good idea.

Its a complicated issue and I don't know near enough. But reality is that I'd say its not looking good for them and maybe it is indeed inevitable that they go under.

Whats incredible is that thes arrogant goofs represent thousands and they won't suffer the worst, the thousands will.

 

[lawgator1]

exactly what i was thinking. they all came from the LA auto show. how much time is a private jet really saving? it's just stupid.



the people who didn't impress me were the congressmen. some of the most stupid questions i've ever heard in my life. the CEOs have to try to scare the crap out of people to get money, but still argue that their business is viable. very difficult to do. i still don't understand how wagner (gm ceo) has kept his job though.

I understand what you are saying about the questions. To be blunt, I wasn't listening for input so much as I was listening to see if they were giving up softballs or asking questions that would give them political cover for when they vote "no."

And I heard a LOT of questions that suggested to me that they were just covering their bases.

 

[rjd970]

I heard they said at the hearings they were all willing to work for $1 next year. Anybody else hear that?

These companies should just be let to fail and let competition run its course. The UAW will get exactly what they deserve.

 

[utvolpj]

I heard they said at the hearings they were all willing to work for $1 next year. Anybody else hear that?

1) They would still be overpaid

2) With Obama in office it's clearly a tax move

 

[truefan]

I heard they said at the hearings they were all willing to work for $1 next year. Anybody else hear that?

These companies should just be let to fail and let competition run its course. The UAW will get exactly what they deserve.

And in the meantime, over 3 million jobs are lost throughout the US. Talk about an economic collapse. What many people fail to realize is the fact the cars are actually made at the tier 1 plants and not at the assembly plants. These companies are spread out all over the US and most of them aren't unionized, but will have to lay off most of their employees dedicated to the GM, Ford and Chysler lines.

 

[dan4vols]

1) They would still be overpaid

2) With Obama in office it's clearly a tax move

You gotta admit #2 is an improvement in the intelligence in decision making!

 

[droski]

well truefan there is no reason to believe that if GM et all declare bancruptcy that these companies will cease to exist or stop producing cars. actually that seems virtually impossible. the companies will merle go into reorganization. just like united airlines which as far as I can tell is still flying planes. as for this 3 mil jobs number. what complete bs. they are including things like insurance companies and auto parts makers, not just those employed by GM or F. you don't think someone will fill the gap and produce more cars and therefore buy auto parts?

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

The whole thing seems to be about saving dues paying jobs, not saving businesses. This is supposed to be part of the payoff for delivering the midwest in the presidential election.

 

[jwells]

The whole thing seems to be about saving dues paying jobs, not saving businesses. This is supposed to be part of the payoff for delivering the midwest in the presidential election.

Can't create a political machine without paying out the money. Next election they'll vote (D) because "they saved our jobs" and "helped us out" a la Boss Crump down in Memphis. Give the people what they want right now, and they'll keep voting you in just to have a chance at another slice of the pie.

 

[truefan]

well truefan there is no reason to believe that if GM et all declare bancruptcy that these companies will cease to exist or stop producing cars. actually that seems virtually impossible. the companies will merle go into reorganization. just like united airlines which as far as I can tell is still flying planes. as for this 3 mil jobs number. what complete bs. they are including things like insurance companies and auto parts makers, not just those employed by GM or F. you don't think someone will fill the gap and produce more cars and therefore buy auto parts?

Droski, I worked in the automotive industry for 12 years. I have been to numerous meetings at both the American big 3 and the Japanese big three. 3 million might be a little exaggerated, but not by much. You have NO idea how many tier one companies there are and the number of people employed at those companies. Do you even know what "tier one" means? I am not necessarily for a government sponsored bailout, but I am for "loaning" the money to them....as long as unprofitable units are eliminated. I am also in favor of dissolving the UAW.

 

[droski]

so they have a lot of employees but why are these jobs immediately going away if there is a bancruptcy? all that is is hyperbole.

i'm not actually against a "bailout" to the auto makers at this point because I think the market can't take those companies going under, but we need some sort of labor concessions.

 

[truefan]

To get back to the subject of the thread, it is unbelievably arrogant for these guys to be riding on private jets when requesting billions from the government.

 

[truefan]

so they have a lot of employees but why are these jobs immediately going away if there is a bancruptcy? all that is is hyperbole.

i'm not actually against a "bailout" to the auto makers at this point because I think the market can't take those companies going under, but we need some sort of labor concessions.

Like forcing the UAW completely out of these companies and therefore ceasing to exist.

The employees do NOT need the union to get fair pay and benefits anymore

 

[droski]

The UAW will never go away and certainly not with obama as president.

 

[truefan]

The UAW will never go away and certainly not with obama as president.

Obama courted them because of their long standing support of the Dem party. I am confident he is aware unions are a thing of the past as far as employee representation are concerned. It won't be about Obama. It is about the companies. I have seen many more companies vote down the UAW than have brought them in to their facility. Their stronghold has loosened immensely during the past twenty years. By the year 2020, they won't be around.

 

[MG1968]

Obama courted them because of their long standing support of the Dem party. I am confident he is aware unions are a thing of the past as far as employee representation are concerned. It won't be about Obama. It is about the companies. I have seen many more companies vote down the UAW than have brought them in to their facility. Their stronghold has loosened immensely during the past twenty years. By the year 2020, they won't be around.

then why does Obama support the Employee Free Choice act which removes the secret ballot for unionization efforts?

Why does Obama want to eliminate the Independent Review Board which oversees corruption in the teamsters' union?

Obama Presidency Could Eliminate Federal Oversight

don't kid yourself into thinking that Obama is about anything other than increasing the size and power of labor unions.

 

[BigPapaVol]

then why does Obama support the Employee Free Choice act which removes the secret ballot for unionization efforts?

Why does Obama want to eliminate the Independent Review Board which oversees corruption in the teamsters' union?

Obama Presidency Could Eliminate Federal Oversight

don't kid yourself into thinking that Obama is about anything other than increasing the size and power of labor unions.

why do people continue trying very hard to make Obama out to be something he isn't?

The guy is an egregiously liberal politician bent on securing as many votes as possible for the next election. His campaign has already started.

 

[volinbham]

Droski, I worked in the automotive industry for 12 years. I have been to numerous meetings at both the American big 3 and the Japanese big three. 3 million might be a little exaggerated, but not by much. You have NO idea how many tier one companies there are and the number of people employed at those companies. Do you even know what "tier one" means? I am not necessarily for a government sponsored bailout, but I am for "loaning" the money to them....as long as unprofitable units are eliminated. I am also in favor of dissolving the UAW.

We are new comers to the auto industry in Alabama and the supplier network is clearly large. We have several Tier 1's like Johnson Controls who basically assemble the entire interiors of the Mercedes rolling out of Vance.

While these jobs are connected, I do agree with Droski's point about bankruptcy vs. elimination. I don't think the Big 3 going under means all that auto production in the US goes away. Sure there will be short term job loss and need for recontracting/retooling but the supplier network will find work with whoever replaces the Big 3 production.

 

[rjd970]

We are new comers to the auto industry in Alabama and the supplier network is clearly large. We have several Tier 1's like Johnson Controls who basically assemble the entire interiors of the Mercedes rolling out of Vance.

While these jobs are connected, I do agree with Droski's point about bankruptcy vs. elimination. I don't think the Big 3 going under means all that auto production in the US goes away. Sure there will be short term job loss and need for recontracting/retooling but the supplier network will find work with whoever replaces the Big 3 production.

Exactly. Let competition evolve. Bailing these guys out encourages more of the same.

 

[allvol123]

Its a complicated issue and I don't know near enough. But reality is that I'd say its not looking good for them and maybe it is indeed inevitable that they go under.

Incorrect. There is absolutely nothing complicated about this whole issue.

 

[joevol320]

We are new comers to the auto industry in Alabama and the supplier network is clearly large. We have several Tier 1's like Johnson Controls who basically assemble the entire interiors of the Mercedes rolling out of Vance.

While these jobs are connected, I do agree with Droski's point about bankruptcy vs. elimination. I don't think the Big 3 going under means all that auto production in the US goes away. Sure there will be short term job loss and need for recontracting/retooling but the supplier network will find work with whoever replaces the Big 3 production.

my company handle insurance for johnson controls. and we see various plants have temp shut downs due to lack of work. i do think that bankruptcy will allow car companies to get rid of the outragious union crap.