Better to have loved and lost or never loved at all?

#1
Rasputin_Vol

Rasputin_Vol

"Slava Ukraina"
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Aug 14, 2007
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#1
Hey guys, for all of the hate and crap thrown Kiffin's way for the way he left Tennessee, lets think about something. If we are able to scramble here at the very end and salvage some of this class, we may still be on course for our rebuilding project. Granted, we will lose a few, but if we had retained Fulmer in 2008 and kept him until now, would we even be in the discussion with Ambles, Jaques Smith or Willis? Seems to me that with all things considered, I would rather have at least been in the mix and the hunt with these guys and at have a puncher's chance on NSD than never even be in the competition at all.

I realize it may be morale victory talk, but I'm just saying...
 
#4
#4
Great post. I think the perfect way to exorcise the demon (CLK) for us and for some of these recruits to show their distaste with how this whole thing was handled is for them to join UT and show how well our program can deal with adversity. Some of these recruits were getting very close with each other and were starting to build that comradery that you love to see in a team.

If Dooley can get a few of these guys back and maybe pickup a couple of project guys that Kiffin wouldn't have reached for, then I don't see anything wrong with staying positive over the next couple of years and giving Dooley a chance to coach them up.
 
#5
#5
Rasputin_Vol said:
Hey guys, for all of the hate and crap thrown Kiffin's way for the way he left Tennessee, lets think about something. If we are able to scramble here at the very end and salvage some of this class, we may still be on course for our rebuilding project. Granted, we will lose a few, but if we had retained Fulmer in 2008 and kept him until now, would we even be in the discussion with Ambles, Jaques Smith or Willis? Seems to me that with all things considered, I would rather have at least been in the mix and the hunt with these guys and at have a puncher's chance on NSD than never even be in the competition at all.

I realize it may be morale victory talk, but I'm just saying...
Click to expand...

That doesn't even make sense..Fulmer and Kiffin were not the only two options for 2009.
 
#6
#6
Volfan76 said:
That doesn't even make sense..Fulmer and Kiffin were not the only two options for 2009.
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Huh? :blink:

If we would have kept Fulmer, where would we be right now if he was still here or had gotten fired after the 2009 season and some new coach stepped in?

We surely wouldn't be where we are at right now...
 
#7
#7
"Never loved". I think there was some good coaching being done by some people on the staff this past year, there was a great deal of intensity, and overall things may be better. A little. But at what cost?

Just a note, CPF had a decent class being put together (not great, and not saying he should still be coaching us) that CLK took over. He then tossed a top ranked QB prospect, then another QB prospect and almost lost Oku and then we had several defections (some may have been good to have gone, others maybe not). Let's not forget, that's why we are so low on players at this time. He tossed QB recruits because he said he wasn't going to have them sitting on the bench in his system (which on the surface sounds standup, but not sure what the real motive may have been). The QB prospect then turned in the MVP performance of the Army game.

Point being, I think we gained a LITTLE over the year...lost a little, but in the end, the disruption at this point makes it a "BETTER TO NEVER" for me. Would have preferred to have gotten someone in that would have stuck it out.

The real gainer in bringing in our past coach, Crompton. He grew and developed with this past staff.
 
#8
#8
Rasputin_Vol said:
Huh? :blink:

If we would have kept Fulmer, where would we be right now if he was still here or had gotten fired after the 2009 season and some new coach stepped in?

We surely wouldn't be where we are at right now...
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Once again, Fulmer and Kiffin were not the only options for 09. Fulmer was NEVER an option. if you are going to try to make an argument in favor of kiffin for some reason, compare him to the other prospects for the job...butch davis, mike leach, etc..
 
#9
#9
Volfan76 said:
Once again, Fulmer and Kiffin were not the only options for 09. Fulmer was NEVER an option. if you are going to try to make an argument in favor of kiffin for some reason, compare him to the other prospects for the job...butch davis, mike leach, etc..
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Oh c'mon, be reasonable with me. I'm merely basing it on what we ended up getting (Kiffin) vs. what we would have had if we had stayed the course (Fulmer). There is no way in hell to speculate what Butch Davis, Brian Kelly or any other candidate would have done with recruiting.It is one thing to speculate on what Fulmer would have done based of the trends he had in recruiting from 2005-2008... at least we have empirical evidence of that. But there is no way you can reasonably expect me or anybody to extrapolate what sme other coach would have done for the sake of this argument. It is not a perfect comparison and it may not satisfy your criteria, but all we can base this on is what Fulmer did hs last 4 years and what Kiffin did his first/only year here. Anything else is just totally blind predicting.
 
#11
#11
Rasputin_Vol said:
Oh c'mon, be reasonable with me. I'm merely basing it on what we ended up getting (Kiffin) vs. what we would have had if we had stayed the course (Fulmer). There is no way in hell to speculate what Butch Davis, Brian Kelly or any other candidate would have done with recruiting.It is one thing to speculate on what Fulmer would have done based of the trends he had in recruiting from 2005-2008... at least we have empirical evidence of that. But there is no way you can reasonably expect me or anybody to extrapolate what sme other coach would have done for the sake of this argument. It is not a perfect comparison and it may not satisfy your criteria, but all we can base this on is what Fulmer did hs last 4 years and what Kiffin did his first/only year here. Anything else is just totally blind predicting.
Click to expand...

Hey, it's your thread...i'm just redirecting it within the parameters of logic. I agree though that it is ridiculous either way.
 
#12
#12
ptclaus98 said:
Smith was a coming to UT even if Fulmer was around.
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Maybe so. I was just throwing out a random name of a recruit that is highly coveted, not really concerned too much about whether he was necessarily a UT lock or not. The point was to illustrate that we are at least in the conversation with a lot more of these type guys right now as oposed to where we would have been if we would have stayed the course with Fulmer and not fired him in 2008.
 
#13
#13
Rasputin_Vol said:
Hey guys, for all of the hate and crap thrown Kiffin's way for the way he left Tennessee, lets think about something. If we are able to scramble here at the very end and salvage some of this class, we may still be on course for our rebuilding project. Granted, we will lose a few, but if we had retained Fulmer in 2008 and kept him until now, would we even be in the discussion with Ambles, Jaques Smith or Willis? Seems to me that with all things considered, I would rather have at least been in the mix and the hunt with these guys and at have a puncher's chance on NSD than never even be in the competition at all.

I realize it may be morale victory talk, but I'm just saying...
Click to expand...

Jsmith was a VOL long before the 3amigos came into the picture.
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