Billionaires and Roth IRAs: the case for tax reform

#1
lawgator1

lawgator1

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#1
https://www.propublica.org/article/...s-into-a-5-billion-dollar-tax-free-piggy-bank


This should make every American very angry. This is exactly what's wrong with our tax system. I am of the opinion it should no longer be run by Congress. As long as they themselves get insider deals, and as long as they are dependent on the generosity of those that do, the Congress cannot be trusted with the power to make the rules on taxation.

I'm open to alternatives. A constitutional amendment to tax all income, regardless of source, at a flat 10 %? No exemptions, deductions, no tricks or dodges. Or how about a pro rata share of the country's bills every year, plus a 30 year plan to pay off the debt, based on income? Would force Congress to be careful in its spending because taxes rise or fall every year based on what they outlay.

Bottom line is that the tax system is currently manipulated by those with enormous wealth so as to concentrate wealth even further and it needs to end.
 
#2
#2
lawgator1 said:
https://www.propublica.org/article/...s-into-a-5-billion-dollar-tax-free-piggy-bank


This should make every American very angry. This is exactly what's wrong with our tax system. I am of the opinion it should no longer be run by Congress. As long as they themselves get insider deals, and as long as they are dependent on the generosity of those that do, the Congress cannot be trusted with the power to make the rules on taxation.

I'm open to alternatives. A constitutional amendment to tax all income, regardless of source, at a flat 10 %? No exemptions, deductions, no tricks or dodges. Or how about a pro rata share of the country's bills every year, plus a 30 year plan to pay off the debt, based on income? Would force Congress to be careful in its spending because taxes rise or fall every year based on what they outlay.

Bottom line is that the tax system is currently manipulated by those with enormous wealth so as to concentrate wealth even further and it needs to end.
Click to expand...
Agree all except for the part about congress. It's their job to make the laws. I hope your anger will move you to vote for actual opposition candidates of the uniparty.
 
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#4
#4
lawgator1 said:
https://www.propublica.org/article/...s-into-a-5-billion-dollar-tax-free-piggy-bank


This should make every American very angry. This is exactly what's wrong with our tax system. I am of the opinion it should no longer be run by Congress. As long as they themselves get insider deals, and as long as they are dependent on the generosity of those that do, the Congress cannot be trusted with the power to make the rules on taxation.

I'm open to alternatives. A constitutional amendment to tax all income, regardless of source, at a flat 10 %? No exemptions, deductions, no tricks or dodges. Or how about a pro rata share of the country's bills every year, plus a 30 year plan to pay off the debt, based on income? Would force Congress to be careful in its spending because taxes rise or fall every year based on what they outlay.

Bottom line is that the tax system is currently manipulated by those with enormous wealth so as to concentrate wealth even further and it needs to end.
Click to expand...
I would prefer a flat sales tax. The government doesn't need to be profiting off of what I earn. However, if a flat 10% income tax would be enough to bring a liberal such as yourself to the table then I'm willing to make a deal.
 
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#9
#9
NorthDallas40 said:
By any means necessary and the end justifies the means.

Newsflash: Rich people have more investment opportunities and means to grow their wealth than people whom aren’t rich.
Click to expand...

I don't think you read the article about how they are using Roth IRAs as a house within which to make insider deals amongst themselves and shield the profits. Its a cute game.

Rich A starts a company and sells Rich B stock worth $25 a share at initial offering of $.00001 a share. Rich B does so within the IRA. Company goes public and he makes tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars, completely tax free.

Rich B starts a company and Rich A buys shares. Same deal. He makes millions upon millions, tax free.

Some in Congress have proposed caps on the tax exempt status, to prevent this circle of fraud. But guess who keeps getting it squished.
 
#10
#10
lawgator1 said:
I don't think you read the article about how they are using Roth IRAs as a house within which to make insider deals amongst themselves and shield the profits. Its a cute game.

Rich A starts a company and sells Rich B stock worth $25 a share at initial offering of $.00001 a share. Rich B does so within the IRA. Company goes public and he makes tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars, completely tax free.

Rich B starts a company and Rich A buys shares. Same deal. He makes millions upon millions, tax free.

Some in Congress have proposed caps on the tax exempt status, to prevent this circle of fraud. But guess who keeps getting it squished.
Click to expand...

Remind us again who is in charge now?
 
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#12
#12
lawgator1 said:
I don't think you read the article about how they are using Roth IRAs as a house within which to make insider deals amongst themselves and shield the profits. Its a cute game.

Rich A starts a company and sells Rich B stock worth $25 a share at initial offering of $.00001 a share. Rich B does so within the IRA. Company goes public and he makes tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars, completely tax free.

Rich B starts a company and Rich A buys shares. Same deal. He makes millions upon millions, tax free.

Some in Congress have proposed caps on the tax exempt status, to prevent this circle of fraud. But guess who keeps getting it squished.
Click to expand...
I read it. It’s tripe. And thanks for ignoring the illegal activity that had to occur for them to have this confidential information in the first place.

Again by any means necessary.
 
#13
#13
lawgator1 said:
https://www.propublica.org/article/...s-into-a-5-billion-dollar-tax-free-piggy-bank


This should make every American very angry. This is exactly what's wrong with our tax system. I am of the opinion it should no longer be run by Congress. As long as they themselves get insider deals, and as long as they are dependent on the generosity of those that do, the Congress cannot be trusted with the power to make the rules on taxation.

I'm open to alternatives. A constitutional amendment to tax all income, regardless of source, at a flat 10 %? No exemptions, deductions, no tricks or dodges. Or how about a pro rata share of the country's bills every year, plus a 30 year plan to pay off the debt, based on income? Would force Congress to be careful in its spending because taxes rise or fall every year based on what they outlay.

Bottom line is that the tax system is currently manipulated by those with enormous wealth so as to concentrate wealth even further and it needs to end.
Click to expand...

So, it was Peter Thiel's fault that he bought PYPL stock over 20 years within his Roth IRA?

I did the same thing with NVDA almost 20 years ago. Am I a tax dodge? My spouse did the same thing with a company that she works for that got bought out this year. Does that make her a tax dodge?

Most Americans have the opportunity to invest in Roth IRAs - I'm not going to hate on the ones who have followed the rules and done well. It's not that complicated to do a Roth IRA - even a guy with an avatar of a slide coming out an elephant's butt can do it.
 
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#14
#14
Lol, our left leaning brothers thinking the government will fix a problem they made. Or that they will actually go after the rich.

IF they remove this loophole, there will just be another.
 
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#15
#15
BigOrangeMojo said:
So, it was Peter Thiel's fault that he bought PYPL stock over 20 years within his Roth IRA?

I did the same thing with NVDA almost 20 years ago? Am I a tax dodge? My spouse did the same thing with a company that she works for that got bought out this year? Does that make her a tax dodge?

Most Americans have the opportunity to invest in Roth IRAs - I'm not going to hate on the ones who have followed the rules and done well.
Click to expand...
Oh you’ve done it now. You MUST be outraged by this!
 
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#16
#16
lawgator1 said:
https://www.propublica.org/article/...s-into-a-5-billion-dollar-tax-free-piggy-bank


This should make every American very angry. This is exactly what's wrong with our tax system. I am of the opinion it should no longer be run by Congress. As long as they themselves get insider deals, and as long as they are dependent on the generosity of those that do, the Congress cannot be trusted with the power to make the rules on taxation.

I'm open to alternatives. A constitutional amendment to tax all income, regardless of source, at a flat 10 %? No exemptions, deductions, no tricks or dodges. Or how about a pro rata share of the country's bills every year, plus a 30 year plan to pay off the debt, based on income? Would force Congress to be careful in its spending because taxes rise or fall every year based on what they outlay.

Bottom line is that the tax system is currently manipulated by those with enormous wealth so as to concentrate wealth even further and it needs to end.
Click to expand...
Thiel followed the law to the letter. The article mentions and I agree, how do you properly value a private startup with no real competition? How many sure fire investments died in the dot com boom? Paypal had a much better chance to die than succeed. If he'd put thousands into his Roth and Paypal went bankrupt I doubt people would be writing articles asking for the IRS to give him relief.

For a bit of scale this "scam" is being pulled off by less than a thousand tax payers in a country of 330M.
 
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#18
#18
LouderVol said:
Lol, our left leaning brothers thinking the government will fix a problem they made. Or that they will actually go after the rich.

IF they remove this loophole, there will just be another.
Click to expand...

A Roth isn't a loophole. It's available to most taxpayers. If you want to get rid of the backdoor Roth conversions (that would be a loophole), then I can listen.

I'm not going to hate on people who make very smart investment choices then place those winning investment choices in the most tax advantaged account possible.
 
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#19
#19
utvolpj said:
By all means we should target the retirement accounts of so many working people over the actions of a few. This is just the first attempt at trying to make it palatable
Click to expand...
Yep. DC eyes all that retirement money and drools. They need to get more creative in funding their grift.
 
#23
#23
BigOrangeMojo said:
A Roth isn't a loophole. It's available to most taxpayers. If you want to get rid of the backdoor Roth conversions (that would be a loophole), then I can listen.

I'm not going to hate on people who make very smart investment choices then place those winning investment choices in the most tax advantaged account possible.
Click to expand...
True. But they wont recognize that.
 
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