Breaking: Ricky Gibson to the portal

[volanatic]

UT has EVERY opportunity to show Gibson the door. He's taking the big risk here because if he hits the portal MOST guys never see a better situation.

The school has every right to let him walk
Gibson has every right to take the risk that they won't let him walk or he'll find a better deal for his services.

This isn't anything abnormal. It's a negotiation of value for services.

If he was an employee, then I would agree with you about it being a negotiation of value for services. We seem to forget that this young man gets a free education along with help from tutors and things that non-student athletes do not have access to. NIL has seemed to be likened to “salary” but Tennessee was never personally selling Ricky Gibson jerseys until NIL came along.

And I would definitely show him the door if it was me. Especially because I just gave him a raise, and now he has spit in my face. I wouldn’t be rude about it, just very matter of fact. And hopefully he would grow from this situation so that one day when he gets out into the real world, he could mature and understand the proper way to negotiate.

By the way, I hope I’m not coming across rudely. Love the conversation!

 

[volanatic]

If his value didn't go up, then let him walk. If UT thinks they can get the same value out of someone else, let him walk.

He's taking the risk that he's actually underpaid.

If UT pays him, he was right. If they don't, he was wrong. That's how employee value works. The employee asks for more sometimes and the employer either says "I agree, you are worth more than you're currently paid" or they let them leave.

It's not weird. It's not evil. It's business. An employee can ask for a raise any time they want and their employer can say no.

Gibson isn't directly asking for a raise, he's taking a big risk that he IS worth more to someone in the industry. If not UT, someone else. It takes guts.

Again, just to reiterate, I’m an employer so all of this is ground level knowledge. No one said anything about it being weird or evil. But it’s not business because he’s not an employee.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

If he was an employee, then I would agree with you about it being a negotiation of value for services. We seem to forget that this young man gets a free education along with help from tutors and things that non-student athletes do not have access to. NIL has seemed to be likened to “salary” but Tennessee was never personally selling Ricky Gibson jerseys until NIL came along.

And I would definitely show him the door if it was me. Especially because I just gave him a raise, and now he has spit in my face. I wouldn’t be rude about it, just very matter of fact. And hopefully he would grow from this situation so that one day when he gets out into the real world, he could mature and understand the proper way to negotiate.

By the way, I hope I’m not coming across rudely. Love the conversation!

I appreciate the conversation. Just tell me if I'm rude. You're not.

With monetary compensation for services rendered, you are essentially an employee. That the NCAA has created this convoluted collectives, NIL, etc system is only to try to keep college athletics as "amateur athletics." That's simply because the NCAA goes out of business as soon as the courts declare college players employees and the schools REALLY like the money they're making by having things remain "amateur." I doubt you or I are fooled into believing what is happening now is amateur sports.

Gibson IS taking the big risk here. UT won't be too badly hurt even if losing him costs us points or, in the worst case, a lost game or two. While it would suck to go 8-4 instead of 10-2, UT would be okay in the long run.

Gibson, on the other hand, may hit the portal and end up at some Big 12 school or somewhere in relative obscurity and with less of an NIL deal. He has no "long run" most likely even if he excels at UT. College is likely it, so he's shooting his shot.

It is a gutsy move from that perspective.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Likely, yes. It's leverage. And it happens every single day in the corporate world when an employee realizes that "Jim in my department is out with his heart issues and they REALLY need me now, I'm going into Mr Big's office and ask for a raise and tell him I think I can do better elsewhere. They need me. Now is my shot."

It's business.

This isn’t the corporate world. If Jim wants to leave for greener pastures he’s typically not taking another job with the idea of only staying for 1 year, and that’s exactly what Gibson would essentially be doing . 6 figures isn’t gonna change your life forever . It’ll be nice for a little bit, but was it worth it to go to school X and have a different coach, system culture, teammates, staff, student environment, non-football friends, not to mention burning bridges with everyone that helped get you here? It’s extremely shortsighted when he has every resource around him that could help him become a professional in football or in another line of work. If he leaves all of that for a moderate % increase on what was an NIL deal that he already on agreed upon, then he’s receiving really bad advice. There’s more that needs to be considered than just NIL, and that’s where things are going sideways for so many athletes IMO.

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

D*ck moves happen all the time in business. Remember Haslam at Pilot "jacking the discount" and not paying drivers the fuel rebates they deserved? Did everyone here insist we stop taking Haslam money or would you suggest it now?

Being a d*ck in business is the calling card of UT for helping sue the NCAA into oblivion on multiple occasions, yet here we are as supporters.

Gibson took care of Gibson which is what a good UT education should teach students. I cannot fault the guy for doing what we've cheered UT for doing....... taking care of business, even at the expense of telling players we recruited to leave the program to make space for better guys, so the business does better.

Rickey Gibson took care of the business that is Rickey Gibson. We expect UT to do that, even if it means some players get pushed out of the program, so we can't fault the players for applying leverage on the program when they have the chance.

A lot of people voiced complaints about Pilot doing that, and many people wanted to divorce from Haslam money even before that.

It’s perfectly fair to criticize businesses. People do it all the time. It’s also fair to not like how some of these guys handle things. There is no part of capitalism that says you have to love every single thing that is ever done in pursuit of a dollar. He has a right to do this, but just like any business, he better hope someone wants what he is selling for the price he is looking for.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

This isn’t the corporate world. If Jim wants to leave for greener pastures he’s typically not taking another job with the idea of only staying for 1 year, and that’s exactly what Gibson would essentially be doing . 6 figures isn’t gonna change your life forever . It’ll be nice for a little bit, but was it worth it to go to school X and have a different coach, system culture, teammates, staff, student environment, non-football friends, not to mention burning bridges with everyone that helped get you here? It’s extremely shortsighted when he has every resource around him that could help him become a professional in football or in another line of work. If he leaves all of that for a moderate % increase on what was an NIL deal that he already on agreed upon, then he’s receiving really bad advice. There’s more that needs to be considered than just NIL, and that’s where things are going sideways for so many athletes IMO.

And as we've all surmised, he's negotiating most likely to stay at UT because that's best for both parties and his value to UT increased with McCoy's injury.

UT keeps their corner and Gibson gets more money. It's a negotiation that may work for him but he is, as you say, taking a risk that it won't.

He has way more to lose than UT in this, as you say, but he does have skills UT might find hard to replace on rather short notice.

The system is badly broken but Rickey Gibson didn't create nor break the system. UT is in a way better position and has been for decades to fix this mess than Rickey Gibson but UT has mostly been on the side of chaos in every lawsuit.

Seriously, it's hard to have sympathy for the school when they (via the state) joined the multi transfer with no penalty lawsuit and have threatened and joined most lawsuits to make college football the Wild West.

Blame Rickey Gibson if you wish for his actions but UT had and has more power and has done more harm to the sport than Gibson ever will be able to do.

 

[FranklinVFL]

You don’t set a talent like Ricky Gibson aside. I used to be emotional. If he doesn’t want to be here, don’t let the door hit him in the rear. But now it’s business. He is just trying to do what’s best for his family even if it is misguided. You sit down with him and negotiate a deal to keep him here. Just like we did with Matthews.

Unless he is a cancer, then hit the road.

Sorry, I likely want clear. What I meant by that is he should not be participating in spring camp, team meetings, etc until this is relived or he leaves.

Wasn’t trying to say just drop him without trying to work on a new deal if needed.

 

[volanatic]

I appreciate the conversation. Just tell me if I'm rude. You're not.

With monetary compensation for services rendered, you are essentially an employee. That the NCAA has created this convoluted collectives, NIL, etc system is only to try to keep college athletics as "amateur athletics." That's simply because the NCAA goes out of business as soon as the courts declare college players employees and the schools REALLY like the money they're making by having things remain "amateur." I doubt you or I are fooled into believing what is happening now is amateur sports.

Gibson IS taking the big risk here. UT won't be too badly hurt even if losing him costs us points or, in the worst case, a lost game or two. While it would suck to go 8-4 instead of 10-2, UT would be okay in the long run.

Gibson, on the other hand, may hit the portal and end up at some Big 12 school or somewhere in relative obscurity and with less of an NIL deal. He has no "long run" most likely even if he excels at UT. College is likely it, so he's shooting his shot.

It is a gutsy move from that perspective.

No doubt a gutsy move indeed!

And no brother not rude in the slightest! Go Vols!

 

[FranklinVFL]

It’s not even like professional. There’s zero reason to honor a contract anymore in college. Pros at least have protections for the teams.

You have to make it painful to break a contract. Right now, players can leave without buyouts or any repercussions.

Make the contract a two way street with penalties.

 

[DaddyChad]

You have to make it painful to break a contract. Right now, players can leave without buyouts or any repercussions.

Make the contract a two way street with penalties.

Hard to do right now in current landscape.

 

[Voltopia]

Hard to do right now in current landscape.

Totally. Schools seem to lose ground with every change, so I can't imagine they want any more big changes unless it gives them more control. It is a bit curious, since they've more or less dug their way into a pit so deep you'd think they'd hit bedrock already. Even so, the phrase "it can't get any worse" just doesn't seem to apply to this mess. They continue to find new ways to make it worse.

Unfortunately, the only way for them to take more control is to do the one thing they seemingly do not want to do - even though they've more or less already done it. Make them employees, dispense with the charade, and, if they're honest, stop marketing it as college sports. Just sports. Just people doing jobs. "Here's to old Tennessee / Long as you pay me."

 

[LWSVOL]

It’s actually a simple fix. NCAA allows pay for play, collectives write contracts that ties player to a school and then they can portal somewhere because NCAA would allow it but their contract and the collectives lawyers could get a TRO preventing it.

It’s actually a simple fix that the NCAA is too dumb too agree to.

Lot of states would need to amend their NIL laws because most do not allow NIL collectives to tie deals to schools. So no reference can be in contract. I know Tennessee law is that way.

It’s not NCAA because they have no say over NIL

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I hate this crap

But this is what so many wanted apparently. Oh players deserve to get paid. Yeah and how is that working out? NIL and unlimited transfers are making it harder to enjoy college football.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Give him his walking papers now.

 

[Delmar]

But this is what so many wanted apparently. Oh players deserve to get paid. Yeah and how is that working out? NIL and unlimited transfers are making it harder to enjoy college football.

I get weary of folks blaming fans for this mess. Didn’t matter what fans wanted. When the players figured out that they could file lawsuits and the NCAA didn’t stand a chance, it was game over. Had nothing to do with regular folks. We are just collateral damage and don’t figure into the equation.

Some support it and some don’t. I don’t like this new world any more than the next person but there is nothing any of us regular folks can do about it except quit watching and quit donating and we all know that’s not happening in enough quantity to have an effect. It is what it is.

 

[camp_steveo]

I imagine Ricky Gibson was already being paid more than at least 90% of Vol fans will ever make in a year, so you are definitely wrong about this.

Maybe so or maybe not, but this is reality. Players will negotiate and use leverage too. Respect them for being red-blooded American capitalists. Don't sit around complaining like a bunch of jealous old hens. It's football. The guys are putting their health on the line because we like watching. They deserve to be paid.

 

[camp_steveo]

You want loyalty? Pay for it.

 

[gobravesvols16]

So if he enters the portal and doesn’t get more money than UT is offering can he come back?

 

[LAVol1]

If the contract was as ironclad as you claim he wouldn't be able to back out right now. Obviously it was not an agreement that would make him legally liable if he were to breach.

If he's free to leave the deal at any time how can you fault him if a better opportunity presents itself? Most people would do the same if they were in his position. You're just speaking from your biased perspective as a Tennessee fan rather than looking at this from the perspective of the player and his family.

I didn't mention anything about it being "ironclad". If he agreed to a deal, he should honor his word and live up to the agreement. The "out" in this case as I understand it, is his agreement was to receive money from Spire for NIL, understanding this agreement committed him to play for the Vols. He understood this yet chose to try to "extort" more money because he gained leverage with the injury to McCoy. Low character. Bad optics.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

So if he enters the portal and doesn’t get more money than UT is offering can he come back?

It is strictly up to the school whether they take him back. Once he's in the portal, UT owes him nothing. It's not up to him, it's up to Coach Heupel.

That's the risk he's taking.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I didn't mention anything about it being "ironclad". If he agreed to a deal, he should honor his word and live up to the agreement. The "out" in this case as I understand it, is his agreement was to receive money from Spire for NIL, understanding this agreement committed him to play for the Vols. He understood this yet chose to try to "extort" more money because he gained leverage with the injury to McCoy. Low character. Bad optics.

Was it bad optics for us to hire Josh Heupel when he didn't honor his contract with UCF and had to pay $3M+ to get out of it?

Is that low character?

 

[Seattle Hillbilly]

I would pay much more for a player of similar abilities vs. paying someone who is trying to take advantage of me because he thinks he can--a player who reneged on a deal we made. And, I would subtly let him know what I thought of him for doing that.

Like maybe a swift kick in the butt on the way out the door!

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

I didn't mention anything about it being "ironclad". If he agreed to a deal, he should honor his word and live up to the agreement. The "out" in this case as I understand it, is his agreement was to receive money from Spire for NIL, understanding this agreement committed him to play for the Vols. He understood this yet chose to try to "extort" more money because he gained leverage with the injury to McCoy. Low character. Bad optics.

If there aren't legal consequences then how can you say it's wrong? If I agree to an at-will contract with an employer it's an agreement sure but I can leave at any time with no consequences (subject to proper notice) and they can fire me at any time with no consequences (subject to proper notice).

It seems these NIL deals are similar in the sense that the players can leave the deal at any time for any reason without legal consequences. You're trying to make it seem like Gibson did something wrong when what he did was well within his rights. It's no different than getting mad at an employee who gets a better job offer after already agreeing to join a company. Should the employee stay with the company paying him far less simply because the opportunity presented itself at a later date when he has every legal right to take that new job offer?

Yall are letting your emotions as college football fans get in the way of common sense. These kids are doing what anybody would do in the same position given their leverage. Just as employers can fire employees anytime they want and college football teams can recruit over players anytime they want. It's the nature of business. If you're not gonna protest the next time Tennessee football recruits over a kid who hasn't lived up to the hype then you shouldn't be against Rickey Gibson doing what he's doing right now.

 

[tombowalker]

Maurice Couch would disagree. These kids have a right to sell their talent. Perhaps UT should step up and meet his demands. CB is a position of need. Let’s keep him here. Pay him.

Sure, they have a right to sell their talent. But there needs to be some kind of limit. This concept of unchecked, anytime, anywhere free agency is absurd.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Was it bad optics for us to hire Josh Heupel when he didn't honor his contract with UCF and had to pay $3M+ to get out of it?

Is that low character?

There’s a penalty for breaking your contract. He paid $3 million . Or someone paid $3 million to get out of his contract. The players don’t pay a dime when they break their contract. Not to my knowledge at least.

Maybe that’s how we slow these things down. We make the player or whichever school acquired his services pay a buyout for the amount of their contract they signed w/ the schools collective.