Breaking: Ricky Gibson to the portal

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Again, 2 wrongs don't make a right. And I supported schools getting penalized when they got caught breaking those rules, even TN after Pruitt.

Leverage is leverage but ethics are ethics. And bad ethics aren't something that should be rewarded or praised.

I think all parties acting in good faith is something we should expect, no?

So did the NCAA. So did UT when Kiffin darted after a year. So did Kiffin when he found himself dumped at the airport. So did numerous teams who had a coach say "I'm staying right here" and leave the press conference to sign elsewhere. So did multiple coaches who had a player in the bag and committed, only to have them flipped by another school. On and on and on......

It's a dirty business and it's been a dirty business for a long, long, long time.

Now, suddenly, we're "shocked" someone isn't operating at the highest ethical standards. Gimme a break.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Did I make the new rules - or lack thereof? Did I create NIL? Did I create the portal? Did I initiate Tennessee's lawsuit?

Stop holding me to their decisions. Stop laying it at my feet, I never agreed to it. There's no way for me to even speak to that. Saying "NOW you want to complain" isn't even remotely fair.

I understand how broken the system is. I've said it was broken for years. Hell I didn't even like the CFP - or even the BCS. I've been solidly on the "don't let TV buy the sport" side since the BCS.

If Ricky Gibson is looking at Tennessee's situation and saying "sorry about Jermod, how about another raise?" then that's what it is.

I suppose it is UT who is to blame here and not the fans, but no one ever puts it that way. Everyone goes after the player who is using the leverage a crap ton of school lawyers bullied the NCAA into giving him.

If UT suffers in this, they deserve every last bit of it. They wanted this, they sued for it, they sued at every corner to make it worse, and now here it is.

But, let's blame the player, shall we?

 

[Voltopia]

I suppose it is UT who is to blame here and not the fans, but no one ever puts it that way. Everyone goes after the player who is using the leverage a crap ton of school lawyers bullied the NCAA into giving him.

If UT suffers in this, they deserve every last bit of it. They wanted this, they sued for it, they sued at every corner to make it worse, and now here it is.

But, let's blame the player, shall we?

I'm not "going after the player" when I state that he's using McCoy's injury as a means to renegotiate a deal he made eight weeks ago. That's what he's doing.

The player is using Tennessee's misfortune to compel it to give him more money, after agreeing to a previous deal only a month or so ago. Forgive me if I don't feel like cheering for that.

 

[Carp]

So did the NCAA. So did UT when Kiffin darted after a year. So did Kiffin when he found himself dumped at the airport. So did numerous teams who had a coach say "I'm staying right here" and leave the press conference to sign elsewhere. So did multiple coaches who had a player in the bag and committed, only to have them flipped by another school. On and on and on......

It's a dirty business and it's been a dirty business for a long, long, long time.

Now, suddenly, we're "shocked" someone isn't operating at the highest ethical standards. Gimme a break.

"Shocked" isn't the word I would use. "Disappointed" for sure. "Jilted" maybe a little. But not shocked.

All of those instances you brought up are equally unethical. Just because unethical things happen somewhat frequently in the sport doesn't make them somehow less unethical.

Again, you are the one that keeps saying this a business decision. Well, dealing in bad faith is unethical business practice. And it most certainly is a reflection of character.

 

[90 Vol]

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Players know its a business. It's the fans that are hung up on the whole team pride thing. You don't see NFL players get mad when their teammates leave as free agents for a better payday. Similarly I doubt the players are gonna hold it against Rickey for getting paid. We just Squirrel leave for a better payday and I didn't see a player revolt.

What Rickey is doing is a problem for fans not the players. The players understand it's a business. It's fans like you that need to get with the program.

That’s not comparable. It was a mutual agreement in December/January, not a week before Spring ball after his deal was already done. And No one is upset or saying he shouldn’t get paid his value or maybe even beyond his value . What people are upset about is the timing of this and him twisting the screws of the “TEAM”. And despite what some actually think on here, there is some pride in the team from the players. You don’t think your guy Dobbs takes pride in Tennessee and goes out of his way to represent our school ? I see him a lot at games .

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I'm not "going after the player" when I state that he's using McCoy's injury as a means to renegotiate a deal he made eight weeks ago. That's what he's doing.

The player is using Tennessee's misfortune to compel it to give him more money, after agreeing to a previous deal only month ago. Forgive me if I don't feel like cheering for that.

Cheering it? The entire situation sucks.

It doesn't suck because Rickey Gibson saw an opportunity for more NIL and went for it (if that's what he is doing.)

It sucks because, as you mentioned, schools sued the NCAA years ago to make their own TV deals and DID, as you mentioned, sell the amateur game like a pro game for a lot of money. It sucks because of decisions people made before Rickey Gibson was born and it sucked so much the Supreme Court told the NCAA "your business model is illegal."

What we, me included, enjoyed for years and years was an illegal, exploitive business model. That's not me saying that, that's the Supreme Court.

If now that illegal model collapses and terrible things happen, maybe I should've lobbied the SEC and UT to think about the consequences of creating a massive business out of college sports instead of being educational organizations.

But I didn't. I liked have Saturday full of TV games and I liked having UT able to buy..... er..... recruit.... great talent and win. I liked it a lot. I still like it and donate to that end.

What I'm not is surprised that it's a very, very dirty business.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

"Shocked" isn't the word I would use. "Disappointed" for sure. "Jilted" maybe a little. But not shocked.

All of those instances you brought up are equally unethical. Just because unethical things happen somewhat frequently in the sport doesn't make them somehow less unethical.

Again, you are the one that keeps saying this a business decision. Well, dealing in bad faith is unethical business practice. And it most certainly is a reflection of character.

Expecting ethics in college athletics at this late date is like being shocked you married a lady who cheated with you turned around later and cheated on you. Duh.

If you're disappointed or jilted, look at what preceded Rickey Gibson, look at what he saw and probably heard about college football as a recruit, look at it from his perspective.

He was never given the impression he was dealing with choir boys when he was recruited, I'm sure. If he turns out to be unethical in dealing with schools, I'm reasonably sure he's aware that's how the sport works from experience.

 

[Carp]

Expecting ethics in college athletics at this late date is like being shocked you married a lady who cheated with you turned around later and cheated on you. Duh.

If you're disappointed or jilted, look at what preceded Rickey Gibson, look at what he saw and probably heard about college football as a recruit, look at it from his perspective.

He was never given the impression he was dealing with choir boys when he was recruited, I'm sure. If he turns out to be unethical in dealing with schools, I'm reasonably sure he's aware that's how the sport works from experience.

What experience is that? He literally walked into the NIL era right out of HS. How exactly does he has experience with poor ethics or being exploited?

Your analogies are not remotely grounded in reality.

 

[Wireless1]

There’s a penalty for breaking your contract. He paid $3 million . Or someone paid $3 million to get out of his contract. The players don’t pay a dime when they break their contract. Not to my knowledge at least.

Maybe that’s how we slow these things down. We make the player or whichever school acquired his services pay a buyout for the amount of their contract they signed w/ the schools collective.

Something tells me that there will be clauses added to future contracts to prevent this from happening.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

What experience is that? He literally walked into the NIL era right out of HS. How exactly does he has experience with poor ethics or being exploited?

Your analogies are not remotely grounded in reality.

Lord knows what the kid was offered on visits with a wink and nod. I'm glad you believe our recruiting is done by people of the utmost ethical standards who would never, ever think of offering anything unethical to a recruit. I'm sure that's ALWAYS been the policy at UT and other big-time colleges.

 

[Wireless1]

Ricky and his people opened a can they probably wished they hadn't.
1. It's Name Image and Likeness, from the forum it appears that some don't like him so his next contract here would possibly be limited for endorsements.
2. In spring he can't transfer to an SEC school without sitting out, so he's slightly limited, and after his (or his people's) approach I suspect many of the available schools (ND) would pass leaving FSU and Miami.
3. He just screwed his teammates, it'll limit the amount they could sign for if he comes back, and every contract will have clauses to limit this situation in the future.
4. As somebody who just wrote a $1800+ check for ~$1100 seats (that not that long ago were $750) this knocks my enthusiasm for UT football down a notch

 

[Carp]

Lord knows what the kid was offered on visits with a wink and nod. I'm glad you believe our recruiting is done by people of the utmost ethical standards who would never, ever think of offering anything unethical to a recruit. I'm sure that's ALWAYS been the policy at UT and other big-time colleges.

So you're making wild assumptions with no proof. Got it. "I'm talking out my ass" is all you needed to say.

If TN wasn't delivering on our financial promises, we would hear about it. Other schools in the SEC have certainly ran into that issue.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I suppose it is UT who is to blame here and not the fans, but no one ever puts it that way. Everyone goes after the player who is using the leverage a crap ton of school lawyers bullied the NCAA into giving him.

If UT suffers in this, they deserve every last bit of it. They wanted this, they sued for it, they sued at every corner to make it worse, and now here it is.

But, let's blame the player, shall we?

The player deserves blame.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

So you're making wild assumptions with no proof. Got it. "I'm talking out my ass" is all you needed to say.

If TN wasn't delivering on our financial promises, we would hear about it. Other schools in the SEC have certainly ran into that issue.

Absolutely, Rick Pitino never provided hookers for players, nor did Miami provide all manner of debauchery. Nor did any school ever cheat academically for players to get in and stay in. It simply never happens....... not in college. Never. Our guys go to class, dammit. All of them. And our recruiters would never ever ever see to it that the family of a recruit receives any benefits, ever.

Just because that happens all over college football and basketball doesn't mean it happens here. Never.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Something tells me that there will be clauses added to future contracts to prevent this from happening.

I’m not going to pretend that I have the legal vocabulary to understand how that may or may not work, but I think that it should. The idea of unlimited transfers and free agency is absurd. There is a reason it doesn’t exist at any other competitive level of sport. This is idea that we owe back pay to these kids bc the people before didn’t have the same $ opportunities is ridiculous as well. A lot of these kids are receiving fair compensation for their abilities as athletes on top of getting a scholarship that pays for academics, housing, nutrition and everything else that no one even discusses anymore. Not to mention, the huge opportunities that puts them at the front of the line before most regular students for any professional position they may want after football . It shouldn’t be too much to say “we’re offering you X # of $$ to come play ball for us, the only thing you have to do is work hard on the field, go to class and be a good citizen for the next 2 years and then we can revisit where everyone stands.”

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

That’s not comparable. It was a mutual agreement in December/January, not a week before Spring ball after his deal was already done. And No one is upset or saying he shouldn’t get paid his value or maybe even beyond his value . What people are upset about is the timing of this and him twisting the screws of the “TEAM”. And despite what some actually think on here, there is some pride in the team from the players. You don’t think your guy Dobbs takes pride in Tennessee and goes out of his way to represent our school ? I see him a lot at games .

What if this new opportunity only just came about right now? You're assuming Rickey waited until now for some maximum leverage play. Some reddit post claimed he got a massive offer from another program to transfer. Let's say that's true. What then? You want him to pass up on a potentially huge payday for what? Loyalty to a program that would recruit over him in an instant if his play were to dip.

Yes this puts us in a bad position. But so what? That shouldn't be Rickey's concern. His priorities should be to himself and his family. Just like how any employee should leave his current job if he were to get a massive offer to go to another company months after signing a new deal. This is business. Yall are being emotional cause it's happening to your favorite team. Divorce your personal feelings from this situation and you would be on the player's side.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The player deserves blame.

Even though UT (or TN) sued the NCAA six ways to Saturday to bully the NCAA into making what Gibson is doing possible, UT has no blame in this?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I’m not going to pretend that I have the legal vocabulary to understand how that may or may not work, but I think that it should. The idea of unlimited transfers and free agency is absurd. There is a reason it doesn’t exist at any other competitive level of sport. This is idea that we owe back pay to these kids bc the people before didn’t have the same $ opportunities is ridiculous as well. A lot of these kids are receiving fair compensation for their abilities as athletes on top of getting a scholarship that pays for academics, housing, nutrition and everything else that no one even discusses anymore. Not to mention, the huge opportunities that puts them at the front of the line before most regular students for any professional position they may want after football . It shouldn’t be too much to say “we’re offering you X # of $$ to come play ball for us, the only thing you have to do is work hard on the field, go to class and be a good citizen for the next 2 years and then we can revisit where everyone stands.”

UT, via the State of TN, ACTUALLY helped sue the NCAA to create multi transfers, virtually no restrictions on how NIL is used, etc.

It's actually what UT wants so why would they try to restrict what they helped create? They wanted the Wild West and they've had successful seasons in football, basketball, and baseball with it in place. It's working for us. There's little chance IMO that UT wants to rein it in.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

What if this new opportunity only just came about right now? You're assuming Rickey waited until now for some maximum leverage play. Some reddit post claimed he got a massive offer from another program to transfer. Let's say that's true. What then? You want him to pass up on a potentially huge payday for what? Loyalty to a program that would recruit over him in an instant if his play were to dip.

Yes this puts us in a bad position. But so what? That shouldn't be Rickey's concern. His priorities should be to himself and his family. Just like how any employee would leave his current job if he were to gwt a massive offer to go to another company months after signing a new deal. This is business.

I wonder who put that out there? And why wouldn’t I assume that this isn’t some leverage play? The guy in front of him goes down in the offseason w/ an injury that moves Gibson to the top corner position and then just all of sudden, after signing a new deal he wants a new one? Come on D4H, you and everyone else on here knows why this is happening. The fact that there is so little regard for all of the resources, relationships and everything else that has been put into this is a problem. Just because he has the ability to make this play doesn’t mean he should . IMO the cons definitely outweigh the pros in terms of what he is potentially leaving on the table if he plays somewhere else next season . I might be wrong, I might be right, but you can still lookout for yourself, family and others while being a good teammate and player. For some reason, that seems like a foreign concept to you and others.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

UT, via the State of TN, ACTUALLY helped sue the NCAA to create multi transfers, virtually no restrictions on how NIL is used, etc.

It's actually what UT wants so why would they try to restrict what they helped create? They wanted the Wild West and they've had successful seasons in football, basketball, and baseball with it in place. It's working for us. There's little chance IMO that UT wants to rein it in.

Regardless of which way the wind is blowing at the time that that was set, do you, meaning you yourself, think it’s good for college athletics to have this unchecked free agency, freedom of movement, pay for play and everything else that is happening? I only ask, because so many coaches, administrators, etc… who deal with this 24/7 365 don’t see it being a sustainable model much longer. I’m not going to dispute you and say that the athletes don’t have these rights and this and that. You obviously are very well versed on how all of this goes down, but as a fan of Tennessee and of college sports , do you not think that this needs to be pulled back in some? We’ve basically gone from being scared of Trooper Taylor buying tacos for Arian Foster to giving Rickey Gibson a Mexican restaurant. I think there can be a world where something in between can exist that will be beneficial for all parties. How we get there is the issue.

 

[Carp]

Absolutely, Rick Pitino never provided hookers for players, nor did Miami provide all manner of debauchery. Nor did any school ever cheat academically for players to get in and stay in. It simply never happens....... not in college. Never. Our guys go to class, dammit. All of them. And our recruiters would never ever ever see to it that the family of a recruit receives any benefits, ever.

Just because that happens all over college football and basketball doesn't mean it happens here. Never.

I was talking about specifically with Gibson. You made insinuations that he was offered things with a wink and nod. AKA, you are talking out of your ass.

 

[DaddyChad]

If he isn't worth a raise then let him walk. But you're here demeaning him because you want him to stay cause you know he's good. If he wasn't good nobody would be saying a word. We would just be wishing him well in his future endeavors.

Whether you like it or not he's justified in trying to make as much money as possible for his talents. Just like you are at your job. It's not his job to placate the interests of the University of Tennessee football program. Sure this puts us in a bind but that's our problem not his or his family.

Once again yall are holding these kids to standards you don't hold anyone else. The football program can recruit over Rickey Gibson if he fails to perform on the field but he's not allowed to leave to seek better compensation? You can't have it both ways. You can't be in favor of us trying to field the best team every year but yet get mad if the players want more money.

People are demeaning him bc he has no integrity and his word isn’t worth crap. Hey at least he gets paid though right?

 

[Carp]

If he isn't worth a raise then let him walk. But you're here demeaning him because you want him to stay cause you know he's good. If he wasn't good nobody would be saying a word. We would just be wishing him well in his future endeavors.

Whether you like it or not he's justified in trying to make as much money as possible for his talents. Just like you are at your job. It's not his job to placate the interests of the University of Tennessee football program. Sure this puts us in a bind but that's our problem not his or his family.

Once again yall are holding these kids to standards you don't hold anyone else. The football program can recruit over Rickey Gibson if he fails to perform on the field but he's not allowed to leave to seek better compensation? You can't have it both ways. You can't be in favor of us trying to field the best team every year but yet get mad if the players want more money.

No one is justified acting in bad faith. I would not be justified in signing a contract with my company then trying to renegotiate 2 months later when one of my colleagues goes out on FMLA.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Regardless of which way the wind is blowing at the time that that was set, do you, meaning you yourself, think it’s good for college athletics to have this unchecked free agency, freedom of movement, pay for play and everything else that is happening? I only ask, because so many coaches, administrators, etc… who deal with this 24/7 365 don’t see it being a sustainable model much longer. I’m not going to dispute you and say that the athletes don’t have these rights and this and that. You obviously are very well versed on how all of this goes down, but as a fan of Tennessee and of college sports , do you not think that this needs to be pulled back in some? We’ve basically gone from being scared of Trooper Taylor buying tacos for Arian Foster to giving Rickey Gibson a Mexican restaurant. I think there can be a world where something in between can exist that will be beneficial for all parties. How we get there is the issue.

I don't think the genie goes back in the bottle. The death sentence was Alston v NCAA. 9-0, the Supreme Court tells the NCAA: the players are employees, you'd better get Congress to fix this or you're toast.

Congress is busy, pretty useless, and hasn't fixed anything except its own salary in decades. The NCAA is toast IMO.

Big revenue schools like UT are content to throw money at the players and be successful. As I said, it's working for us. Hats off to the admins, big donors, etc who made Spyre one of the best collectives around from the start of this mess.

As fans, we can ride this like we rode bikes barreling down the hill until we crashed directly into the sticker bush at the bottom. Yeah, it'll hurt but dang, what a ride. There are no brakes at this point.

UT is doing what it thinks is best for UT in this.
Rickey Gibson is doing what he thinks is best for him.

Really, we're just along for the ride. I've not broken a sweat on a football field in many decades. I've never managed a program with the scope Josh Heupel has to deal with every day. I've never had the pressures Danny White feels from all directions.

I have it easy in this mess. I wish it could Holloway to Sievers again but that's not happening.