Brent Hubbs on SportsTalk said kicking game practice has too many voices

#1
Volitics

Volitics

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#1
Brent Hubbs on SportsTalk said kicking game practice has too many voices

Did anybody hear what Brent Hubbs said this evening on SportsTalk?

(Brent Hubbs is a SportsTalk regular from 6:00 to 7:00 pm on Thursday)

Hubbs said that sports media persons are permitted to watch the first (I think) 40 minutes of practice. That is when Tennessee works on the special teams play (i.e. the kicking game).

You may remember that last year some aspects of UT's kicking game were poor. Fans complained on the call in shows. This year has seen the UT special teams play break down in kickoff and punt return play.

A caller asked Hubbs about the kicking game practice. Hubbs said that UT today practiced special teams play but then he said something that was alarming.

He said that 'there were numerous coaches that were talking to the players' and that 'the coaches were all saying the same thing but they were saying the same thing in different ways' and that there was so much information that was being presented by the coaches that he (Hubbs) was 'not sure that the players were understanding what the coaching staff was trying to tell them.'

Brent Hubbs assessment about sums up the problem with the poor special teams performance - which does not seem to be improving much.

Apparently the players do not know which coach to whom they should listen so they're becoming confused.

You may have heard the saying that insanity is defined as "doing the same thing over and over while each time expecting different results."

I feel that something is dreadfully wrong with Coach Fulmer's approach to special teams coaching. Apparently he's not changing the approach and perspective for special teams preparation even though the current practice methods do not seem to be working.

Unless things change, and it doesn't appear that they're going to under Fulmer, UT's special teams play is not going to have any consistent improvement.
 
#2
#2
Volitics said:
Brent Hubbs on SportsTalk said kicking game practice has too many voices

Did anybody hear what Brent Hubbs said this evening on SportsTalk?

(Brent Hubbs is a SportsTalk regular from 6:00 to 7:00 pm on Thursday)

Hubbs said that sports media persons are permitted to watch the first (I think) 40 minutes of practice. That is when Tennessee works on the special teams play (i.e. the kicking game).

You may remember that last year some aspects of UT's kicking game were poor. Fans complained on the call in shows. This year has seen the UT special teams play break down in kickoff and punt return play.

A caller asked Hubbs about the kicking game practice. Hubbs said that UT today practiced special teams play but then he said something that was alarming.

He said that 'there were numerous coaches that were talking to the players' and that 'the coaches were all saying the same thing but they were saying the same thing in different ways' and that there was so much information that was being presented by the coaches that he (Hubbs) was 'not sure that the players were understanding what the coaching staff was trying to tell them.'

Brent Hubbs assessment about sums up the problem with the poor special teams performance - which does not seem to be improving much.

Apparently the players do not know which coach to whom they should listen so they're becoming confused.

You may have heard the saying that insanity is defined as "doing the same thing over and over while each time expecting different results."

I feel that something is dreadfully wrong with Coach Fulmer's approach to special teams coaching. Apparently he's not changing the approach and perspective for special teams preparation even though the current practice methods do not seem to be working.

Unless things change, and it doesn't appear that they're going to under Fulmer, UT's special teams play is not going to have any consistent improvement.
Click to expand...
With the Vols tough schedule. A poor kicking game will get us beat. We have not had a good kick off return team since Johnny Majors was the coach.
 
#3
#3
Fulmer has already changed the way that special teams is coached.

This way is a change from the way it was done last season.
 
#5
#5
Steve Caldwell was "DE/Special Teams Coach" going into the season.

Then, as things got worse, they started letting Cheif and the other coaches help out. It was pretty much a free-for-all.

This year the Coordinators are in charge of the various teams.

Chavis does Kickoff coverage and punt return and Cutcliffe does Kickoff Return and punt coverage.
(I may have those reversed, but that is the general idea of it.)

The reason he does not have a "special teams coach", is that the NCAA only allows so many coaches on staff.

Before last season, the Graduate Assistants used to coach Special Teams.

Fulmer has been active in trying to find a winning combination.

It just hasn't happened yet.
 
#6
#6
In the Air Force game or maybe the Florida game a UT receiver fair caught a punt at the five yard line.

UT color commentator Tim Priest who played defensive back at UT said that a punt should never be fielded inside the ten yard line and that they player should have let it bounce into the end zone.

That's just one example of several unexplainable special teams miscues this season and last season.

Considering the seeming discombobulated special teams play it's easy to believe Hubbs when he says that the players may not understand what the coaches are trying to tell them.
 
#7
#7
I have had NO College special teams coaching and I would KNOW not to catch a punt on the five.

Some things can't be blamed on coaching.

Sometimes KIDS just make mental mistakes.
 
#8
#8
OrangeSquare said:
I have had NO College special teams coaching and I would KNOW not to catch a punt on the five.

Some things can't be blamed on coaching.

Sometimes KIDS just make mental mistakes.
Click to expand...

True

I thought he was just faking the catch so the defenders would stop and watch him. Imagine my surprise when he caught it. :ermm:
 
#10
#10
OrangeSquare said:
Fulmer has already changed the way that special teams is coached.

This way is a change from the way it was done last season.
Click to expand...

Last year there was 6 to 7 coaches working with Special Teams with one supposedly in charge who answered to Fulmer.

This year there are 7 to 8 coaches involved with no one supposedly in charge with all answering to Fulmer.

Funny but I have to agree with the original post:

"You may have heard the saying that insanity is defined as "doing the same thing over and over, while each time expecting different results."

Basically all Fulmer did was called the same idea a different name.


I'm just glad Fulmer has the kicking teams straightened out!
 
#11
#11
OrangeSquare said:
I have had NO College special teams coaching and I would KNOW not to catch a punt on the five.

Some things can't be blamed on coaching.

Sometimes KIDS just make mental mistakes.
Click to expand...

That's just one example.

*There was the breakdown on coverage that let the Florida receiver run one all the way back (it got called back on a questionable clipping call).

* There was another breakdown in the Florida game that let a returner make about a 39-yard run.

* There was a breakdown on a kickoff when the UT receiver downed the ball at the 1-yard line. It looked like that there was indecision.

* UT is ranked 119th (dead last) in the NCAA kickoff return yardage. That's not due to just one player.
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2006&div=4&rpt=IA_teamkickret&site=org
(look all of the way down to the bottom)

I regret having to say this but Coach Fulmer for whatever the reason has plain and simple let us down. Special teams play is only part of the failure/problem. It's an broader problem like lack of team discipline and lack of player development that has permeated UT's football program in recent years.
 
#12
#12
How many different ways do you have to say it...

Hey James, see those two yellow bars? Kick it between that.
 
#14
#14
Vol67 said:
Last year there was 6 to 7 coaches working with Special Teams with one supposedly in charge who answered to Fulmer.

This year there are 7 to 8 coaches involved with no one supposedly in charge with all answering to Fulmer.

Funny but I have to agree with the original post:

"You may have heard the saying that insanity is defined as "doing the same thing over and over, while each time expecting different results."

Basically all Fulmer did was called the same idea a different name.


I'm just glad Fulmer has the kicking teams straightened out!
Click to expand...


What Fulmer did last season, and what they are doing this season is not "basically call the same idea a different name".

Last season, after the Florida game, all the assistant coaches helped with special teams on varrying levels.

This season, the coordinators are in charge of opposite coverage and return teams.

I'll admit it's not working, but I won't let you say he's doing the same thing, because it's very different.
 
#15
#15
Volitics said:
That's just one example.

*There was the breakdown on coverage that let the Florida receiver run one all the way back (it got called back on a questionable clipping call).

* There was another breakdown in the Florida game that let a returner make about a 39-yard run.

* There was a breakdown on a kickoff when the UT receiver downed the ball at the 1-yard line. It looked like that there was indecision.

* UT is ranked 119th (dead last) in the NCAA kickoff return yardage. That's not due to just one player.
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2006&div=4&rpt=IA_teamkickret&site=org
(look all of the way down to the bottom)

I regret having to say this but Coach Fulmer for whatever the reason has plain and simple let us down. Special teams play is only part of the failure/problem. It's an broader problem like lack of team discipline and lack of player development that has permeated UT's football program in recent years.
Click to expand...

The downing of the ball on the five, and Morley's mistake of downing the ball on the one in the Airforce game, is the only reason Tennessee is 119th.

There have only been three games, and if in two of them you down the ball inside the five, and other teams all take touchbacks and their worst returns are to the 12, 15, 18, etc, then you are going to be behind those teams.

Two mental mistakes by those players is why the Vols are there, not because anything Fulmer is doing or not doing directly. He has removed Morley from kickoff return, and Rogers is hurt and won't return punts. I'm telling you now, I expect things to be much better this week on special teams. Not 100% better, but better than the two mistakes in the previous games.
 
#16
#16
#17
#17
Volitics said:
As GAVol points out I'm beginning to sound like a broke record but I'm just getting tired of the whole mess. Losing to Florida. Losing to Georgia. 1-6 at home against those two teams this decade. Three losses in a row to Auburn.
Click to expand...

Not intended to be a shot. It's just really obvious which fascet of the game is troubling you the most.:)

Can't say that I really disagree. It scares me every time a punt goes up into the air.
 
#18
#18
Volitics said:
As GAVol points out I'm beginning to sound like a broke record but I'm just getting tired of the whole mess. Losing to Florida. Losing to Georgia. 1-6 at home against those two teams this decade. Three losses in a row to Auburn.
Click to expand...


You have a Johnny Majors avatar and you bash Fulmer's decisions. I know your agenda. It's your right. I'm not happy with the outcome of games against those teams either.

The difference is, while Fulmer is head coach, and I hold him responsible for the outcomes of those games, I do not hold him responsible for every play and every thing that happened in those games. I hold him responsible for holding onto inefficient coaches for too long, but he has corrected that problem, and I am willing to give him time (atleast three years) to get better results.

My point is, if you are gonna blame Fulmer for the special teams play through three games, I want you here after 12 games to say that you are pleased with the improvement from now to then, and I want you to say that Fulmer is the one deserving the credit.
 
#19
#19
Volitics said:
As GAVol points out I'm beginning to sound like a broke record but I'm just getting tired of the whole mess. Losing to Florida. Losing to Georgia. 1-6 at home against those two teams this decade. Three losses in a row to Auburn.
Click to expand...
We've already lost to UGA this year?!?!? I didn't even know...
 
#20
#20
Morley and Rogers are both very very young. That explains their flubs when attempting one of the most pressure-packed parts of the game in front of 100,000 people.

At least Rogers seems to have good hands (knock on wood). At the Cal game, for the first time in years I was not watching the punts and kickoff returns through squinted eyes.

They'll get it right. Brent Hubbs needs to shut his mouth and know his role. What's next, is he going to write that he is concerned that Fulmer doesn't do enough drills using the blocking sled? Gimme a break.

A lot of things look like chaos from the outside looking in. Ever take a tour of the NYSE?
 
#21
#21
OrangeSquare said:
My point is, if you are gonna blame Fulmer for the special teams play through three games, I want you here after 12 games to say that you are pleased with the improvement from now to then, and I want you to say that Fulmer is the one deserving the credit.
Click to expand...

I'll be the first to admit it if I'm mistaken.

Fulmer has been playing and coaching football his entire life. He ought to already know how special teams needs to be coached.

Efficiency, or lack thereof, ought not even be an issue on special teams. Instead it's a re-curring nightmare.
 
#22
#22
I've presented the facts that kids making mental mistakes have lead to the ranking, and you want to ignore them.

I guess if my entire premise was proven wrong and I had nothing to come back with, I would shut up too.

The Vols probably won't magicly be in the top 10 in Special teams, but they won't finish the season 119th either.

See you in January and we'll see where everything ends up.
 
#23
#23
Honestly, I have heard people say that the Special Teams (exc. kicking) have not been a strong suit since the departure of George Cafego.
 
#24
#24
OrangeSquare said:
The downing of the ball on the five, and Morley's mistake of downing the ball on the one in the Airforce game, is the only reason Tennessee is 119th.
Click to expand...

The reason that I didn't respond is that you made an crucial error in your previous assumption.

"The downing of the ball on the five" was on a punt return and has nothing to do with Tennessee ranking 119th in kickoff returns. Punt returns are not figured into kickoff statistics.

Please, if you want to argue a point get your facts straight.
 
#25
#25
The statistical mistake of downing the ball on the five on the punt is not a factor, but the point I'm trying to make with you, that you are ignoring because of how much sense it makes, and how much it destroys your assumption that it is all Phil's fault, is that KIDS MAKE MENTAL MISTAKES.

Those mental mistakes are why Tennessee ranks 119th.

If you want me to be "statistically accurate" well, then let's just take a look at the statistics, shall we?

Against California, Tennessee only had one kickoff return for 16 yards. When, you keep a team from scoring very much, you don't get to return the ball.

Against Air Force, Tennessee returned three kickoffs for 22 yards. One of those three was the mistake of Morley catching the ball with his knee on the one yardline which killed the average. The first kickoff of that game was a 13 yard kickoff return by Morley. Morley caught the ball in the endzone and Lucas Taylor told him to stop, but he didn't, and only returned it to the 13. The third kickoff of that game was a short kickoff, that Lucas Taylor fielded at the 18, and returned it nine yards because the Air Force players were already downfield to make the tackle.

So, going into Florida, lets recap.

Tennessee had one kickoff return of 16 yards.
Tennessee had two mental mistakes by Morley (who has since been removed from kickoffs) go for a total of 14 yards.
And Tennessee had a short kickoff returned nine yards.

The person without the agenda, could easily start to see why Tennessee rankes 119th.

Now Florida....

4 Kickoff Returns for 65 yards..... WHOA. Where's the praise for the improvement? Oh, that's right, we can only harp on the negatives, not the positives.

For those of you not mathematically inclined those 4 returns for 65 yards represents a 16.2 average.

So, just for fun, let's throw out the AirForce game since those three returns were not characteristic, and let's see where Tennessee might rank.

5 returns for 81 yards is a 16.2 average which according to the link provided would rank Tennessee 103rd instead of 119th....see, the sky isn't falling chicken little, we are getting better already.

One more thing, just to show how silly looking at that list is THIS EARLY in the season....

118LSU
110Southern California
109Virginia Tech
105Florida St.
102Florida
87Ohio St.
83Michigan
82Louisville
75Miami (Fla.)

Do you STILL want to look at the stats? Or is this post proof enough to you that you need to look elsewhere to fluff your agenda against Phillip Fulmer. Like I said earlier, you and others have a right not to like him, but I promise you, and anyone else, if you come on this board and make a weak-ass arguement, you WILL have it shoved back into your face.

Have a nice day.
 
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