Butch and Bajakians offense

#51
#51
Orange_Crush said:
Those previous years were in pro-style, primarily I-formation offenses. Thus, your statement that those systems inherently produce better rushing is proven incorrect. You just admitted that those pro-style, i-formation systems were hardly the "evidence of quality."

You sure you still want to keep having this conversation at a "system" level?

Our running game has actually been good. Our inabilities have generally been in the passing game-- i.e. Worley's inaccuracy... Worley's trouble knowing his reads... Worley's troubles going through his progressions... WRs running the wrong routes, dropping balls, etc...

Thus, it's more proof that you don't want to install a new system every coupe of years, because you don't want receivers learning new routes every year. You don't want QBs learning new reads and progressions every year... Etc...

It's also due to talent and youth. Maybe you don't like to hear that, but it doesn't change the facts.
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To add to your point, can you imagine how much better our average per carry as well as total rush yards would be if teams actually felt the need to respect our passing? these types of things tend to feed on each other.

Edit: Oh yeah.... Not to mention how that impacts down and distance which, if in a positive place, keeps defenses on their heels and guessing all of the time.
 
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#52
#52
A) you are getting the rest of the team used to running that offense.

B) you know your QB's of the future are capable of running it... So you get the rest of your team ready....then add mobile QB, all of a sudden he becomes a star. (A.K.A The johnny manziel effect)

C) why would you want to have to teach a new offense to the entire team after a year or two of teaching them the first? All the does is turns you jr/sr at the time back into being confused and playing more like underclassmen... due to a large amount of their previous experience becoming useless.

D) we beat a top 10 SEC opponent, he has proven his system works.. whatever else happens this year that alone sets him above the others...

E) CBJ gets it!
 
#53
#53
Dragon18 said:
To add to your point, can you imagine how much better our average per carry as well as total rush yards would be if teams actually felt the need to respect our passing? these types of things tend to feed on each other.
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:hi:
 
#54
#54
Orange_Crush said:
Finally! You've owned it. Congratulations.

You've admitted that your expectations were for this coaching staff to install one system this year, then scrap it and install a different system next year. I applaud you for your sudden burst of honesty. Shame on you for having idiotic expectations.
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I never said any such thing. To be clear, once again: If the zone read is integral to the system, then I don't think you need to completely install such a system, just so you can run it next year. I never said anything about installing a completely different system. I used the example of Urban Meyer at UF, where he used a much different set of plays (some might call those set of plays a kind of "system", but clearly you wouldn't) for Chris Leak, until he had a QB who could reliably run the option. But, if, as you contend, the zone read is not integral to the system, then I don't understand why we are running that play (or those sets of plays, to be more clear) with a QB who cannot run it.

That's my last attempt at clarifying. You're like that girlfriend that always needs the last word, so have at it.
 
#57
#57
oregonvol said:
No system should take so long to install that you need to install it now with players who can't run it in order to run it a year from now.

That said, when Dobbs was playing it looked like the system had potential.

We'll see how Missouri goes. I have a feeling we'll need to score alot to keep up. Hopefully, they'll be working on screens and bootlegs this week, because that's pretty much all South Carolina did in the 4th quarter last week and Missouri couldn't stop them.
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oregonvol said:
Whether you want to call it "installing a system" or want to say it's the play-calling, I don't care. To most on this board, they are referencing the same thing. Did Urban Meyer install his full system with Chris Leak? Is that your contention? If Butch can install his system and not have Worley running constant zone read/option plays, then it's a moot point. I have been talking specifically about that aspect. If you want to call that simply "play-calling" that's fine. But very few on here are talking about blocking schemes or general philosophy. We're talking about the zone read plays that seem to be the main feature of Jones' system. And I don't understand why you need to run them with personnel who can't run them effectively, just so you can run them next year. No one does that.
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oregonvol said:
So, just so I'm clear on this, it is your contention that Jones can install his system without calling the zone read play constantly and having Worley run it?
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oregonvol said:
Okay, so we don't need to run the zone read in order to install the system, right? Okay, I thought from the many comments I have read on here that the two went hand-in-hand. But, if they don't, cool. I'll amend what I initially said before to, "The zone read isn't so complicated that you need to install it with a QB who can't run it effectively, just so you can run it next year." Happy?
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I could care less about having the last word. When I am in a discussion with someone, I care a lot about whether they are honest with:

  1. My argument.
  2. Their own argument.

This time around you've done better with point one. However, you seem to be having issue with point two. I will be happy to continue posting until we have some honesty about your points that the discussion is on.

I\In other words, it has little to do with my words, or when they come. It has everything to do with your words, OV.

"Why did he install his system this year without the right personnel?"

(Edit: Your initial comment was not a question. It was a statemeent that no system takes so long to implement that you have to implement it this year, without the players to run it, in order to run another the year after. i.e. Any system should be simple enough to install one this year, and another next year.)

"Can Butch install his system without those plays in it?"

"Yes?"

"Oh, I didn't realize that. Then I'll change my stance..."

i.e. Due to my understanding at the time, I really did mean that I expected him to install a different system, because I did not know that he could install his current system without calling those plays

i.e. If he couldn't install that system without calling those plays, my expectation would have still been that he install a different system.

Your comments per Urban's season with CL is a red herring. In another thread, you equated CBJ's system with UM's. In this thread you stated that you thought it impossible to install the system without calling the read option. Thus, you seem to have thought that UM installed a completely different system after CL left, which he didn't.

Own your argument, OV.
 
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#58
#58
Orange_Crush said:
I could care less about having the last word. When I am in a discussion with someone, I care a lot about whether they are honest with:

  1. My argument.
  2. Their own argument.

This time around you've done better with point one. However, you seem to be having issue with point two. I will be happy to continue posting until we have some honesty about your points that the discussion is on.

I\In other words, it has little to do with my words, or when they come. It has everything to do with your words, OV.

"Why did he install his system this year without the right personnel?"

(Edit: Your initial comment was not a question. It was a statemeent that no system takes so long to implement that you have to implement it this year, without the players to run it, in order to run it the year after. i.e. Any system should be simple enough to install one this year, and another next year.)

"Can Butch install his system without those plays in it?"

"Yes?"

"Oh, I didn't realize that. Then I'll change my stance..."

i.e. Due to my understanding at the time, I really did mean that I expected him to install a different system, because I did not know that he could install his current system without calling those plays

i.e. If he couldn't install that system without calling those plays, my expectation would have still been that he install a different system.

Your comments per Urban's season with CL is a red herring. In another thread, you equated CBJ's system with UM's. In this thread you stated that you thought it impossible to install the system without calling the read option. Thus, you seem to have thought that UM installed a completely different system after CL left, which he didn't.

Own your argument, OV.
Click to expand...
Were you on the debate team in high school?
 
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#61
#61
Orange_Crush said:
I could care less about having the last word. When I am in a discussion with someone, I care a lot about whether they are honest with:

  1. My argument.227_3458_3551_fancier_backup_4
  2. Their own argument.

This time around you've done better with point one. However, you seem to be having issue with point two. I will be happy to continue posting until we have some honesty about your points that the discussion is on.

I\In other words, it has little to do with my words, or when they come. It has everything to do with your words, OV.

"Why did he install his system this year without the right personnel?"

(Edit: Your initial comment was not a question. It was a statemeent that no system takes so long to implement that you have to implement it this year, without the players to run it, in order to run another the year after. i.e. Any system should be simple enough to install one this year, and another next year.)

"Can Butch install his system without those plays in it?"

"Yes?"

"Oh, I didn't realize that. Then I'll change my stance..."

i.e. Due to my understanding at the time, I really did mean that I expected him to install a different system, because I did not know that he could install his current system without calling those plays

i.e. If he couldn't install that system without calling those plays, my expectation would have still been that he install a different system.

Your comments per Urban's season with CL is a red herring. In another thread, you equated CBJ's system with UM's. In this thread you stated that you thought it impossible to install the system without calling the read option. Thus, you seem to have thought that UM installed a completely different system after CL left, which he didn't.

Own your argument, OV.
Click to expand...

Get a room you two.
 
#64
#64
You recruit for your system. In this case, you start teaching your offensive system that you are going to build your program on to the team. Butch is trying to install a system here this year, not just win games. He is playing for next year, and the year after that. This year has to be a building block for next year. My 2 cents.
 
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