California Bullet Train

#1
volinbham

volinbham

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#1
So one of my Facebook friends posted this story yesterday with the comment "Finally the US gets a bullet train". A few other folks commented that they hoped it was the first of many.

California gives green light to high-speed rail plan | Reuters

I read the article and this is what I saw:

Governor Jerry Brown, who says a bullet train network will boost job creation and provide an alternative to car and plane travel in the country's most populous state.

Unions also lobbied hard for the network, the most ambitious public works project to date in California. Republicans opposed it, saying the $68 billion project would be a massive financial burden that could jeopardize state spending on basic services such as education and healthcare.
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OK so the state is in terrible financial straights but this will support jobs including union jobs.

The bullet train network, expected to take decades to complete, would eventually connect Sacramento and San Francisco to Los Angeles, with stops along the way.

"Literally, this project means tens of thousands of jobs," said Mark Kyle, director of government affairs for the Operating Engineers Local Union No. 3, which was among the bill's supporters. California has a 10.8 percent unemployment rate.
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20+ years to complete but again, looks good for union jobs.

Critics worry that funding for the project will eventually run dry before the rail network can be completed, leaving California with a "train to nowhere" in its agrarian midsection for which it spent billions of public dollars.

The U.S. government has insisted that construction on the bullet train line start in the Central Valley, where trains could reach 220 mph (355-kph) over flat and more sparsely populated terrain. The federal government has cited logistical and cost reasons for its geographic preference.

That insistence irked both lawmakers from urban centers in coastal Northern and Southern California, as well as farmers who described the project as an "imminent threat" to some of the most agriculturally productive land in the United States.
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Funding to complete the project and make it useful (connected to urban centers) is highly uncertain. Funding is only for the part that will run in the middle of nowhere and that is because the Feds are funding more than 1/2 of the early work. Farmers (whose land it will run through) are opposed.

But with federal funds involved, the state has had to make concessions in some aspects of the project, whose cost estimates have ballooned to $68 billion from $45 billion previously.
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project compromised by Fed $ and is already 50% over budget (before work has even started).

The Legislative Analyst's Office, an independent budget watchdog agency, said the source of funding for the project beyond Friday's initial round was "highly uncertain."

State Senator Joe Simitian, a Democrat who voted against the plan, told Reuters he was concerned about the system's costs growing beyond current projections, that too few riders would use the train, and that private-sector funds and more money from the government might never materialize.
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Again, highly uncertain future funding - catch 22 - need riders to pay for it but first part of the train will be rural requiring considerable effort to use by people in urban centers.

Voter sentiment on the high-speed rail line has soured since a 2008 statewide vote in which Californians approved nearly $10 billion in state debt to help finance the plan. A June USC Dornsife/Los Angeles Times poll found a majority of voters would oppose the project if given another chance to vote on it.
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And the kicker - the majority of state citizens are against the project.


Sorry for the long post but is this announcement really something to celebrate? Am I being just to cynical?

Seems like it's a story of special interests overriding fiscal responsibility and the will of the voters - IOW; the story of America :)
 
#4
#4
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEZjzsnPhnw[/youtube]

(hope that works)
 
#6
#6
I rode the Shinkansen (Bullet Train) from Tokyo to Hiroshima and loved it. However, the government doesn't need to build this. If there was a market, wouldn't a commercial train company build it?
 
#9
#9
I like that the initial stops are in bfn central valley california. so many riders there!
 
#10
#10
dreVol said:
I like that the initial stops are in bfn central valley california. so many riders there!
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I'm not saying that the train is a good idea for a state with no money but the idea of it going to the central valley is the only part that makes sense. Kern County alone had almost 840,000 people living there in 2010 and a lot of them commute for 2 hours + for higher paying jobs in the L.A. area.
 
#12
#12
SycloneJoe said:
I'm not saying that the train is a good idea for a state with no money but the idea of it going to the central valley is the only part that makes sense. Kern County alone had almost 840,000 people living there in 2010 and a lot of them commute for 2 hours + for higher paying jobs in the L.A. area.
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I find it hard to believe that commuters between Madera and Bakersfield are going to pay the high cost for tickets to ride the bullet train.
 
#13
#13
dreVol said:
I find it hard to believe that commuters between Madera and Bakersfield are going to pay the high cost for tickets to ride the bullet train.
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I have friends who live in Bakersfield and work in L.A. They rent a hotel room M-F. I'm sure he would much rather buy a train ticket.
 
#14
#14
SycloneJoe said:
I have friends who live in Bakersfield and work in L.A. They rent a hotel room M-F. I'm sure he would much rather buy a train ticket.
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I dont doubt that there are some people
that will get a lot of use out of the bullet train.

I highly doubt that the bullet train gets completed; that it will have sufficient track room to reach "bullet" speed; that it will survive the environmental challenges to have as-straight-as-possible tracks; that it will avoid significant cost overruns; that it wil have the necessary ridership either to keep ticket prices reasonable or avoid significant subsidies... all among other doubts.

If I'm proven wrong so be it, but 25 years in ca will jade even the most ardent optimist.
 
#15
#15
SycloneJoe said:
I have friends who live in Bakersfield and work in L.A. They rent a hotel room M-F. I'm sure he would much rather buy a train ticket.
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Agree that it would get this type business but that ain't where it's being built at first. My understanding is that most of it will be in the valley with connections to urban centers coming later.
 
#16
#16
volinbham said:
Agree that it would get this type business but that ain't where it's being built at first. My understanding is that most of it will be in the valley with connections to urban centers coming later.
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Not connecting urban centers is just plain dumb. The best use for high speed rail would be to connect major cities to give people a true alternative to flying. I could see it being used to commute between smaller cities, but most would see it as a faster means of getting to further away places (in my view).
 
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#17
#17
dreVol said:
I dont doubt that there are some people
that will get a lot of use out of the bullet train.

I highly doubt that the bullet train gets completed; that it will have sufficient track room to reach "bullet" speed; that it will survive the environmental challenges to have as-straight-as-possible tracks; that it will avoid significant cost overruns; that it wil have the necessary ridership either to keep ticket prices reasonable or avoid significant subsidies... all among other doubts.

If I'm proven wrong so be it, but 25 years in ca will jade even the most ardent optimist.
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I've spent enough time in SoCal to understand that. Like I said, the only part that makes sense to me is the idea of connecting the 6.5 million people who live in the central valley. Good luck pulling that idea off. Have you ever driven the grapevine? Can you imagine the bullet tracks going through there?
 
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#18
SycloneJoe said:
I have friends who live in Bakersfield and work in L.A. They rent a hotel room M-F. I'm sure he would much rather buy a train ticket.
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So now they will no lnger need the rooms which will hurt the hotel business and therefore wont need to eat dinner and breakfast there which will hurt the eateries business and therefore hurt the employees who will be cut do to lack of traffic and so on and so on.

But its good for unions.
 
#19
#19
SycloneJoe said:
I've spent enough time in SoCal to understand that. Like I said, the only part that makes sense to me is the idea of connecting the 6.5 million people who live in the central valley. Good luck pulling that idea off. Have you ever driven the grapevine? Can you imagine the bullet tracks going through there?
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if this thing actually gets built it will be quite the feat politically and logistically
 
#20
#20
SycloneJoe said:
I've spent enough time in SoCal to understand that. Like I said, the only part that makes sense to me is the idea of connecting the 6.5 million people who live in the central valley. Good luck pulling that idea off. Have you ever driven the grapevine? Can you imagine the bullet tracks going through there?
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There are no challenges in California that weren't faced in Japan, which is about as mountainous and seismically active. Hell, even after the tsunami the Shinkansen was back up in practically no time... And for a state that's about the same size as Honshu, it would work. But it has to be done right, i.e. connecting Bakersfield to L.A. or Modesto to San Francisco (or however they are going to do it). I've driven the length of the state four times, and flown more times than I can count. A bullet train would be a good solution.

Problem is that you need either uninhabited land or to exercise eminent domain to get something like this done.
 
#21
#21
BigPapaVol said:
Why would we not celebrate?
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That bullet train is going to blow up a lot of dust running through a desert, won't this contribute to global warming?





dreVol said:
I like that the initial stops are in bfn central valley california. so many riders there!
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Unemployed farm workers need a way to go somewhere.





dreVol said:
I find it hard to believe that commuters between Madera and Bakersfield are going to pay the high cost for tickets to ride the bullet train.
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By the time it is finished we will be living in a socialist state comrade.

Free tickets, no ID required.

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milohimself said:
Problem is that you need either uninhabited land or to exercise eminent domain to get something like this done.
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Or you could shut off water to an agricultural region and then when the landowners can't earn enough from the land to pay taxes just confiscate the land in lieu of unpaid property taxes.

It's hard for most people to understand how valuable a delta smelt can be.

114721_600.jpg
 
#23
#23
Gs, hop off. I hope Obama wins in November so you can be more pessimistic, cynical, and depressed for four more years.
 
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