Can someone explain to me why Texas A&M would have the tie breaker if they beat Texas?

[volsfan199]

They'd have 3 overall losses and ranked under us.

 

[AdoptedVOL]

Oil money?

 

[GBO18]

They'd have 3 overall losses and ranked under us.

Conference record wise they would only have 2 losses and silly tiebreakers to do with win % against other conference opponents. I believe.

 

[JMSqb11]

People still think non conference losses (or wins) matter in the conference…. A tale as old as time

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Assume A&M beats Tex, while Vols beat Vandy. It doesn't affect the SEC standings, but also assume UGa beats Ga Tech to finish their season. Then:

Texas -- 6-2 SEC, 10-2 overall
UGa -- 6-2 SEC, 10-2 overall
Vols -- 6-2 SEC, 10-2 overall
A&M -- 6-2 SEC, ,9-3 overall

A four-way tie.

Tie-breaker #1: head-to-head competition among tied teams:

Texas 0-2 -- lost to A&M and UGa; didn't play Vols
UGa 2-0 -- beat Tex and Vols; didn't play A&M
Vols 0-1 -- lost to UGa; didn't play the other two
A&M 1-0 -- beat Tex, didn't play the other two

UGa, at 2-0, is in. A&M, at 1-0, is also in. Vols and Tex are out.

I'm not positive tie-breaker #1 works exactly like that, but think so. And that's why the winner of A&M vs Tex is in the SEC CG. Either way, the winner's SEC record among those four teams will end up better than both the Vols and the loser of that match.

Go Vols!

 

[WillisWG]

They'd have 3 overall losses and ranked under us.

but only 2 SEC Ls

Current standings

1. Texas (6 - 1)

2. Georgia (6 - 2)

3. Texas A&M (5 - 2)

Above Tennessee based on record vs common conference opponents all played one time (3-0).

4. Tennessee (5 - 2)

Below Texas A&M based on record vs common conference opponents all played one time (2-1).

5. S Carolina (5 - 3)

6. Alabama (4 - 3)

With LSU and Ole Miss, above Missouri based on record vs common conference opponents all played one time (1-0).

Above LSU and Ole Miss based on conference opponent win percentage (0.5686).

https://bball.notnothing.net/bracket.php?conf=secfb

 

[madbamahater]

People still think non conference losses (or wins) matter in the conference…. A tale as old as time

Non conference losses don't count against conference records, of course, but they do count in the overall college football playoff scenarios.

 

[GBO18]

Non conference losses don't count against conference records, of course, but they do count in the overall college football playoff scenarios.

That’s not what this thread is about though haha

 

[iluvcooter]

Here is the list of tie breakers on the SEC website:

SEC Football Tie-Breaking Process - Southeastern Conference

Comprehensive coverage of SEC football, basketball, baseball and more, including live games, scores, schedules, standings and news

www.secsports.com

Assuming TN, GA, TX and A&M all end up at 6-2, I think the tie breaker goes all the way down to "D. Cumulative Conference winning percentage of all Conference opponents among the tied teams." since:
A. Head to head - there is not a true round robin between all the tied teams.
B. Record vs. all common opponents - all 4 have the same record against common opponents.
C. Record against the common opponent with the best conference record - all 4 have the same record against common opponents.
D. Ranking all opponents' records in conference, it looks like the order is A&M, GA, TN, TX.

I put the numbers into a spreadsheet and that is what I came up with. Who knows if it is right, but it aligns with what the networks are saying.

 

[hillsborovol]

 

[LittleVol]

Assume A&M beats Tex, while Vols beat Vandy. It doesn't affect the SEC standings, but also assume UGa beats Ga Tech to finish their season. Then:

Texas -- 6-2 SEC, 10-2 overall
UGa -- 6-2 SEC, 10-2 overall
Vols -- 6-2 SEC, 10-2 overall
A&M -- 6-2 SEC, ,9-3 overall

A four-way tie.

Tie-breaker #1: head-to-head competition among tied teams:

Texas 0-2 -- lost to A&M and UGa; didn't play Vols
UGa 2-0 -- beat Tex and Vols; didn't play A&M
Vols 0-1 -- lost to UGa; didn't play the other two
A&M 1-0 -- beat Tex, didn't play the other two

UGa, at 2-0, is in. A&M, at 1-0, is also in. Vols and Tex are out.

I'm not positive tie-breaker #1 works exactly like that, but think so. And that's why the winner of A&M vs Tex is in the SEC CG. Either way, the winner's SEC record among those four teams will end up better than both the Vols and the loser of that match.

Go Vols!

Thank you

 

[TheOrange&White]

If A&M beats Texas and Georgia, will they secure that championship spot with the bye week even with 3 overall losses? Especially since they were already ranked #15 and lost to Auburn? If that happens, would we still be behind the other two and possibly get left out if the committee only takes 3 SEC teams? Or would we be in no matter what because we should be ranked in the top 10 (dependent on beating Vandy)?

Or would TX and GA losing move us past them in the playoff rankings and secure a spot? Sorry for all the questions. Trying to understand this moving puzzle.

 

[iluvcooter]

I don't think there is anything in writing about the loser of a conference championship game, but the SEC commissioner has told the committee that being in that game should be a reward. I would expect that the committee keeps the teams in the ranking before the championship weekend and just reorders the playoff bracket. Who knows...

 

[TrueOrange]

They'd have 3 overall losses and ranked under us.

(1) CFP rankings do nothing in determining tiebreakers. The SEC stopped using rankings in tiebreakers in 2014.

(2) Overall losses don’t factor into conference standings, only the results of conference games (one of A&M’s 3 losses is to Notre Dame, an out of conference team; A&M only has 2 in-conference losses)

(3) Texas A&M beating Texas and Tennessee beating Vanderbilt would create a 4-team tie between A&M, Georgia, Texas, and Tennessee.

Since the 4 teams didn’t all play each other and all 4 had the same record against their common opponents (Florida and Mississippi State, which all four teams beat), it would go to A&M would win the 4-team tiebreaker based on conference opponents’ conference win percentage (A&M’s would be 0.4688, UGA’s would be .4531, Texas’s .3906, and Tennessee’s 0.3750).

With A&M separated into the conference’s top spot, it would then become a 3-team tie between Georgia, Texas, and Tennessee…while they didn’t all play each other (Tennessee didn’t play Texas), Georgia beat both and would win the tiebreaker.

(Tennessee would actually then end up in 4th place behind Texas in the end due to the record against common opponents tiebreaker…both played Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, Arkansas, and Oklahoma: Texas went 6-1 vs these teams, Tennessee went 5-2 vs these teams.)

 

[WillisWG]

If A&M beats Texas and Georgia, will they secure that championship spot with the bye week even with 3 overall losses? Especially since they were already ranked #15 and lost to Auburn? If that happens, would we still be behind the other two and possibly get left out if the committee only takes 3 SEC teams? Or would we be in no matter what because we should be ranked in the top 10 (dependent on beating Vandy)?

Or would TX and GA losing move us past them in the playoff rankings and secure a spot? Sorry for all the questions. Trying to understand this moving puzzle.

Yes. Doesn't matter. No a 3 L Georgia doesn't get in. W over and we're in. An L by Georgia in SECCG and they're likely out or 1st out in CFP.

 

[Shaun1985]

An SEC title would be sweet and the difference between going to South Bend or Athens but when your barely on that cut off line of in and out, I'm happy to take the Penn State parkway of getting to the playoffs

 

[volfan102455]

I don't think there is anything in writing about the loser of a conference championship game, but the SEC commissioner has told the committee that being in that game should be a reward. I would expect that the committee keeps the teams in the ranking before the championship weekend and just reorders the playoff bracket. Who knows...

If that is how it works - then each of the top 5 conferences would automatically get 2 teams - that is 10, the ND makes 11. So only 1 slot left. Not how it works.

The rules were reworked for NO special treatment for ANY conference.

 

[iluvcooter]

I agree, but the fact that there is nothing written into the committee's procedures about losers in the conference championship games tells me they have the power to make that determination themselves.

 

[njvols]

Such a better start to the week of threads vs what they would have been if TaM, Bama, OM, IU didn't get beat. We just need to hold the fort and beat Vandy.

 

[WiseOlVol]

If A&M beats Texas and Georgia, will they secure that championship spot with the bye week even with 3 overall losses? Especially since they were already ranked #15 and lost to Auburn? If that happens, would we still be behind the other two and possibly get left out if the committee only takes 3 SEC teams? Or would we be in no matter what because we should be ranked in the top 10 (dependent on beating Vandy)?

Or would TX and GA losing move us past them in the playoff rankings and secure a spot? Sorry for all the questions. Trying to understand this moving puzzle.

Vols get in ahead of 3-loss UGA and 3-loss Texas.

 

[JMSqb11]

Non conference losses don't count against conference records, of course, but they do count in the overall college football playoff scenarios.

Then why are we discussing A&M’s
Non conference losses in a conference tie breaker thread?

 

[TheOrange&White]

Vols get in ahead of 3-loss UGA and 3-loss Texas.

In this scenario though, Texas would only be a 2-loss team. So there would be a 3-loss champion (TA&M), a 3-loss loser but participant in the SEC championship (GA), and a 2-loss Texas who’s higher than us in the SEC standings. I’m thinking though that TX losing to TA&M would drop them lower than us in the playoff rankings, so we would slide past them.

 

[Other_Guy]

I'm still incredibly happy after yesterday. Vols were the biggest winners. The season really isn't about what is your record, it's about what is your record compares to your rivals, conference and CFB for that year. 10-2 was feeling disappointing but after OM, A&M and Bama go down that means Tenn is likely going to be tied for 3rd instead of 5th or 6th and a chance to host a playoff game.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

(1) CFP rankings do nothing in determining tiebreakers. The SEC stopped using rankings in tiebreakers in 2014.

(2) Overall losses don’t factor into conference standings, only the results of conference games (one of A&M’s 3 losses is to Notre Dame, an out of conference team; A&M only has 2 in-conference losses)

(3) Texas A&M beating Texas and Tennessee beating Vanderbilt would create a 4-team tie between A&M, Georgia, Texas, and Tennessee.

Since the 4 teams didn’t all play each other and all 4 had the same record against their common opponents (Florida and Mississippi State, which all four teams beat), it would go to A&M would win the 4-team tiebreaker based on conference opponents’ conference win percentage (A&M’s would be 0.4688, UGA’s would be .4531, Texas’s .3906, and Tennessee’s 0.3750).

With A&M separated into the conference’s top spot, it would then become a 3-team tie between Georgia, Texas, and Tennessee…while they didn’t all play each other (Tennessee didn’t play Texas), Georgia beat both and would win the tiebreaker.

(Tennessee would actually then end up in 4th place behind Texas in the end due to the record against common opponents tiebreaker…both played Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, Arkansas, and Oklahoma: Texas went 6-1 vs these teams, Tennessee went 5-2 vs these teams.)

Not sure it works that way, friend (the first bolded part of your note).

I think the first tie-breaker applies even if all the teams haven't played all the others that are tied. (and you agree at least in part, because you invoked the first tie-breaker at the second bolded bit even though they didn't all play each other).

So here's how I think the first tie-breaker actually works--we can do two scenarios, one where A&M beats Tex, and another where Tex beats A&M. In either case, we have to assume the Vols have beaten Vandy (or why have this discussion?):

A&M beats Texas -- all four contenders are 6-2 in conference: Vols, UGa, A&M, and Texas.
-- UGa's record among the four tied teams is 2-0 (beat the Vols, beat Texas)
-- A&M's record among the four is 1-0 (beat Tex)
-- Vols' record among the four is 0-1 (lost to UGa)
-- Texas's record among the four is 0-2 (lost to UGa, lost to A&M)
Since 2-0 (UGa) and 1-0 A&M are the best of those four records, those two go to Atlanta.

Texas beats A&M -- that eliminates A&M, with 3 conference losses. Texas is automatically in, at 7-1. Then UGa (6-2) beats the Vols (6-2) in the first tie-breaker, because they beat us head-to-head. So Texas and UGa are in.

So it really does come down to UGa against the winner of Tex-A&M, without ever getting past the first tie-breaker.

That's how I think it works. Could be wrong.

Go Vols!

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I don't think there is anything in writing about the loser of a conference championship game, but the SEC commissioner has told the committee that being in that game should be a reward. I would expect that the committee keeps the teams in the ranking before the championship weekend and just reorders the playoff bracket. Who knows...

If that is how it works - then each of the top 5 conferences would automatically get 2 teams - that is 10, the ND makes 11. So only 1 slot left. Not how it works.

The rules were reworked for NO special treatment for ANY conference.

There's no rule about conference CG losers getting in. But I would bet good money that the SEC and B10 conference CG losers (also known as the second-best teams in each conference the day prior) will be included by the Committee, as long as the loss isn't an embarrassing blowout.

Is that fair to the other Power 5 (really Power 4) conferences? No. Then again, we haven't been fair in that way with the Group of 5 conferences for decades. It's just a fact of life that some conferences are significantly better than other conferences. These days, it's the SEC and B10 above the rest.

The Committee recognizes that. More importantly, they recognize that the SEC and B10 have the clout to just walk away and set up their own deal. The CFP will do what they can to keep the current format together. So they will absolutely give the SEC and B10 a bit of preferential treatment. Call it the schedule difficulty advantage, if you will.