Can / will Fulmer turn it around...

#51
#51
what is fulmer's record against the better coaches in the sec, spurrier, richt, tubberville, saban ( before he jumped ship), and meyer. i'm sure he is below 50%. they are all better coaches. meyer is a first year coach in the sec and has already beaten phil. imagine what he will do once he gets his players in there.
 
#52
#52
Did you got to the sec championship game last year? The secind half was dominated by auburn. the game was never in doubt for auburn.

the stats of texas usc and to a lessor extent penn state show that they did not win most of there games by a play or two.

Come on Fulmer plays it close to the vest and it has caught up with him. get a lead against a good team and sit on it that is fulmer's mo
 
#53
#53
Originally posted by smokedog#3@Dec 16, 2005 2:31 PM
always is dizzy when it comes to people who are fulmer supporters.  sono what is fulmer winning percentage since 2001,  i don't know what it is but i know it is not good.  he has never been good against top 10 teams,  actually his record against the top 10 is terrible.  what is iowa's record since 2001 i bet you it is better than tennessee's.  iowa would have crushed us this year,  we couldn't even beat vandy.  come on you have to be realistic.  iowa has also been to more bcs games than us since 98.  i'm not just talking about iowa fans either i travel alot,  almost all the big ten,  pac 10 and acc fans would love to get a piece of us.  and yes they all have the same reply,  fulmer is a joke,  great recruitier bad coach.  i can't comment on big 12 fans,  don't have any friends out there so i don't go there.  like i said before tennessee don't scare anybody,  and why should they if your a good team.  fulmers record against the top ten speaks for itself.
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I don't know what your affiliation with Iowa is, but you are right, since 2001, Iowa has 1 more win than UT does. I can find nothing more than the 2001 record (can't find the Iowa schedule, ESPN only goes back to 2002,) but since 2002, Iowa has played 6 teams that are ranked in the top 10. UT has played 12 top 10 teams in the same span, and is still only 1 win shy of Iowa. I don't really care where you travel to or who you talk to. Find me a coach who has better than 40% wins against the top 10 and that has played more than 10 games against the top 10. I almost guarantee you can't, maybe Carroll but I don't think USC has faced 10 top ten opponents.
 
#54
#54
Originally posted by patrick@Dec 16, 2005 2:46 PM
Did you got to the sec championship game last year?  The secind half was dominated by auburn.  the game was never in doubt for auburn.

the stats of texas usc and to a lessor extent penn state show that they did not win most of there games by a play or two.

Come on Fulmer plays it close to the vest and it has caught up with him.  get a lead against a good team and sit on it that is fulmer's mo
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Never in doubt??? With less than 7 minutes to play in the game it was still a 3 point difference. I have a feeling that most of the people that bash Fulmer do not remember the UT teams under Battle and Majors (read into it, the young UT fans are spoiled.) Fulmer has turned UT into a team that would hang around in the top 25 for 3/4 out of 5 years, to a team is in national championship discussions 3 out of 5 years. Let the man have a losing season, once in 15 years. Hell, we had 3 in the 80s.
 
#55
#55
Originally posted by sonofajohn@Dec 16, 2005 1:50 PM
I don't know what your affiliation with Iowa is, but you are right, since 2001, Iowa has 1 more win than UT does.  I can find nothing more than the 2001 record (can't find the Iowa schedule, ESPN only goes back to 2002,) but since 2002, Iowa has played 6 teams that are ranked in the top 10.  UT has played 12 top 10 teams in the same span, and is still only 1 win shy of Iowa.  I don't really care where you travel to or who you talk to.  Find me a coach who has better than 40% wins against the top 10 and that has played more than 10 games against the top 10.  I almost guarantee you can't, maybe Carroll but I don't think USC has faced 10 top ten opponents.
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What is Fulmer's overall record against these opponents since 2000? Miami, LSU, Auburn, UGA, UF, ND? These are all top caliber programs. Just about every time we played them these teams were in the top 10 as well.
 
#56
#56
where are you getting your stats from sono. the last i saw fulmer was 4-15 in his career against the top 10. you have him with 17 on the road. i know richt record against the top 10 is better than fulmers. i would have to say nick saban, with worse teams is better than fulmers. spurrier's record seems to be up in the air too. he has 2 wins against us at tennessee when we were in the top 10. i'm pretty sure his record is better than that. he also beat georgia this year which gives him 3. fulmer was 1-3 this year against top 10 teams and 1-2 last year. your stats arn't adding up.
 
#57
#57
Originally posted by RealVol@Dec 15, 2005 6:37 AM
We all know CPF is an excellent recruiter.

We all know UT has everything i.e. fans, facilities, $$$, tradition, tv exposure, talent, etc. in place.

We all know every recruiting season UT gets it's fair share.

We all know UT certainly gets National TV exposure.

We all know UT SHOULD be in contention for at least the SECE every year.

With these points made does CPF have the post meltdown "wits" to monitor UT's long overdue changes?

In my opinion, he has got to become a better policeman on & off the field, demand more discipline, have his coaches expand the offense, require his Staff to expect perfection, demand game to game improvement (something not seen in years) and use all the speed UT's talent pocess, expect to score on every offensive series & make the Coaches including himself more accountable for progress of their units.

My friends, those basic points should be premier objectives EVERY year.

I'm in doubt he has the ability... I hope I'm wrong. As a UT Fan I do not want to see other fans (again) fall into the same old rut many have been evidently become accustomed to. More specifically  "Tennessee Football" is not accepting a last quarter rally, a last second defensive stop, a last second fg, a favorable ref's call, a favorable clock operators assistance...to assure a Vols victory against lesser talented teams. My friends that is not "Tennessee Football" in my opinion, it's totally unacceptable!
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It depends on what you call "turning it around". My prognosis is for a few years of 8-3, 7-4, 6-5 years, but no SEC Caamps, no NC talk, no BCS Bowls. I'm afraid after this year fan expectation will be low and this time next year all the loyalists like AllVol will be jumping up and down in excitement on going to the Peach or Cotton Bowl.

Myself, I think UT is one of the top 5 universities in the nation in football tradition and we should demand excellence. I feel for whatever reason our coaching staff pales when compared to Georgia, Florida, Auburn, SC and even Bama. Hiring David Cutcliff was like putting a BandAid on a sucking chest wound
 
#58
#58
since 2000:
Florida: 3-3
Georgia: 1-5
Alabama: 4-2
South Carolina: 5-1
LSU: 2-2 (1-2 v. Saban)--incl SEC CG
Auburn: 0-3--incl SEC CG

the one that hurts is the Gerogria record...

other top opponents:
Miami 1-1
Notre Dame: 1-2

Bowls: 2-3, no appearance in 2005. 1st cotton and two peach bowls really make this a lot worse than it is.

so all totaled up in "big" games, not really worried about national rankings at this point, i think all would agree these are the types of teams we grade ourselves against, we are:
19-22 in these big games.

and i'm not bashing Fulmer, as much of a down turn we may have taken, some other teams have just gotten much better, either by coaching or players...UGA, LSU and AUB are the class of the SEC TODAY. We'll be back though.
 
#59
#59
i agree rocky. with spurrier back and fulmer beating him 25% of the time things don't look real great. i'm atleast hoping we will come out and try to win the game, instead of sitting back seeing if the other team will screw up. CUT will help, but over the next couple of years things are going to be pretty average at best. 6-5, 7-4 if we are lucky 8-3. this has what tennessee football has sunk to. i think if there is not much excitement next year coming out of neyland stadium, phil will probably be packing his bags heading to winchester for good. in my opinion if he doesn't win 8 games he is in trouble. especially with alot of big games at home this year. CAL will be a key game for phil if he loses that game watch out, you think it was bad this year. i don't think he will survive the season. he has to beat cal. if he doesn't i will be one of the people at the U saying he has to go now.
 
#60
#60
With all the changes taking place, I hope Fulmer quits clapping his hands every time we go 3 & out and the punter is lining up. What the h--- is that all about?

It is time to get real in the coaching category.
 
#61
#61
Originally posted by CSpindizzy@Dec 16, 2005 2:57 PM
What is Fulmer's overall record against these opponents since 2000? Miami, LSU, Auburn, UGA, UF, ND? These are all top caliber programs. Just about every time we played them these teams were in the top 10 as well.
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Are you serious? Since 1999 (the RS Era) Miami (1-1.) LSU (2-1.) UGA (2-4.) UF (3-3.) ND(2-2.) AU(1-3.) Considering 3 of those teams have won NCs since 1999 (Miami, AU(undefeated, no title), and LSU) those records are not bad, especially since 2 of those losses to Auburn were during its undefeated season. Georgia is really the only team that seemingly has our number...
 
#62
#62
Originally posted by smokedog#3@Dec 16, 2005 3:05 PM
where are you getting your stats from sono.  the last i saw fulmer was 4-15 in his career against the top 10.  you have him with 17 on the road.  i know richt record against the top 10 is better than fulmers.  i would have to say nick saban,  with worse teams is better than fulmers.  spurrier's record seems to be up in the air too.  he has 2 wins against us at tennessee when we were in the top 10.  i'm pretty sure his record is better than that.  he also beat georgia this year which gives him 3.  fulmer was 1-3 this year against top 10 teams and 1-2 last year.  your stats arn't adding up.
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I went through all the past schedules since 1993 of UT football. These are on govols xtra, rankings at the gametime included. I got Spurriers record against top 10 teams on the road from a Naples Daily News article written in 2003 (so, they do not include his 2005 performance.)
 
#63
#63
Originally posted by checkerboard_charly@Dec 16, 2005 10:00 AM
allvol i like ur posts. everyone is informative, but u arent ALWAYS correct.  we had major off the field troubles during the offseason. 12 arrests. 12. that is way up there.

sanders wants to run the spread? spread what? pass what? catch what? cut will run almost the exact same offense. EXACT SAME.

and ut is the most talented returning team in the east? maybe tied for first or even in second.

south carolina will be tough as nails next year. we lost all our front 7 except harrell and he still may go. we have alot of work to do to win anything next year. and california is no UAB.
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No I am not always correct. But SEC Champion Georgia and South Carolina had just as many if not more off season arrests.

My favorite (sarcasm) formation that Sanders called was when the Vols had 1st and goal inside the five and the set is no-back and at least 4 wide. He continually put the Vols in these formation when they should have just shoved the ball down the other teams throats. I've got game tapes that go back twenty years that show the proof.

Yes, the team that was preseason ranked no. 3 this season because of its talent will be the most talented team in the SEC east this season.

South Carolina will be lucky to win 7 games again next season. Spurrier is NOT god, no matter what people post.

Chavis has repeatedly replaced the defensive line and linebacking corps without losing a step. His rotation develops the backups along the way. That is why in a 2 year period, the Vols had 6 to 8 defensive lineman get into the NFL.

And yes, California is no UAB.... at least UAB can play some defense. :question:
 
#64
#64
Originally posted by RealVol@Dec 16, 2005 10:40 AM
I hate to say it but I too have my doubts Fulmer can turn it around. Let's face it, he "inherited" a major football schools head coaching position w coaches already in place. With UT's talent and some lucky breaks, he's certainly had some impressive seasons. But he's never really been challenaged to tweak his staff much. And the way I see it, he's been too stubborn to change even when it's been obvious UT's underperformed & had become stagnant offensively. He's unwisely retained a few I felt should have been reassigned or motivated to seek employment elsewhere. The only major ruffle in his staff was when Cut departed to Ole Miss. and Fulmer appointed R.S. to replace him.

With repeated underperforming squads, CPF did nothing to improve his Staff. Especially on offense. Frankly the only reason I see he fired several of his coaches this year was R.S. resigning & fan outrage finally became real enough to force a change. CPF has never rebuilt, built or even come close to creating a Staff from the ground up.

I will have to agree with others here, it appears CPF is no better than 3rd-4th best coach in the SEC. I look forward to him proving me wrong.
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I hate to say it , but you better get real. :D Check your facts before you post. By the time the Vols were reeling off (starting in 1995) 11-1, 10-2, 11-2, and 13-0 records the coaching staff had changed considerably since 1992.

Larry Marmie was the DC in '93 and '94. Then John Chavis was promoted from LB coach in 1995 and has been the DC ever since. Chavis has been the assistant HC since 1999. Dan Brooks has been coaching the defensive line since 1994... Steve Caldwell has been coaching the defensive ends since 1995. Both replaced Jacob Burney who coached for 1 season under Fulmer.

Lovie Smith, yes the Bears' current head coach, joined Fulmer's staff in 1993 as DB coach. He was replaced by Kevin Ramsey in 1995. Ramsey is currently the DC for the Carson Newman Eagles. Larry Slade came in as DB coach in 1999.

On offense, David Cutcliffe coached the qbs and was OC from 1993-1998. Cutcliffe was the assitant head coach from '95-'98. Randy Sanders coached RBs until becoming OC and QB coach in 1999. Woody McCorvey took over RBs from '99-2003. Trooper Taylor joined the staff in 2004 to replace McCorvey.

The position with the biggest turnover is the OL. Mark Bradley coached TE/OL from 1993-2001. Steve Marshall coached OL from 1993-1995. Rodney Garner coached TEs from 1996-97. Mike Barry coached OL from 1998-2001. Jimmy Ray Stephens has coached OL since 2002. Greg Adkins came in 2003 to coach TEs.

Fulmer hired Kippy Brown in 1993 to coach receivers. Brown was the Assistant HC too. Pat Washington replaced Brown in 1995.
 
#65
#65
Thanks for strengthening my point. Few of those mentioned above were dismissed or fired by Fulmer. Almost all were offered bigger / better jobs at other schools.

Marmie to UCLA
Jacob Burney to Cleveland Browns
Lovie Smith to Ohio State
Kevin Ramsey to ? now C-N.
David Cutcliff to Ole Miss
Woody McCorvey followed Cut to Ole Miss
Mark Bradley to ?
Steve Marshall to UCLA
Rodney Gardner to Georgia
Mike Barry to NC State
Kippy Brown to NY Jets

I seriously wonder how many jobs has RS, Pat Washington & JRS seriously have been approached about. To me that's a direct reflection of how inept, inefficient, stagnant, predictable & lazy our offense has become. Hell, it often looks like our players are going to get an enema rather than line up for the next play. In my opinion some tweaking & expansion within the coaching staff should have been made about 4-5 years ago. Preferrably I would like to have seen a progressive, innovative and "speed" thinking OC come in to develop and use all the speed we recruit. I can remember when UT was known as W. R. U.

As with everything posted here, everyone has their opinion. Quite simply mine is this: if Fulmer is such a sharp coach, why did he wait so long to make long overdue changes on offense.
 
#66
#66
Throw out the numbers and the bickering. Short answer on will the Vols turn around next season behind Fulmer is YES.
 
#67
#67
Agreed!
Let's see some REAL Tennessee Football!
No wimpy coaching!
No wimpy players!
Balls to the wall every game, every play w every player!
 
#68
#68
Originally posted by sonofajohn@Dec 16, 2005 1:56 PM
I have a feeling that most of the people that bash Fulmer do not remember the UT teams under Battle and Majors (read into it, the young UT fans are spoiled.)  Fulmer has turned UT into a team that would hang around in the top 25 for 3/4 out of 5 years, to a team is in national championship discussions 3 out of 5 years.  Let the man have a losing season, once in 15 years.  Hell, we had 3 in the 80s.
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Thank you, son. It is easy to forget that under previous regimes, there were a lot of bad years. It is easy to forget that for decades, UT was NOT a preseason player for the SEC championship every year. Fulmer has raised the program and the expectations on the hill to a different level. I don't like going 5-6 any more than anybody else. I don't like goint 6 seasons without a BCS bid. But in those 6 years, TN has won the division twice and has 3 10 win seasons.

Unlike any other conference in the country, the SEC has 6 teams that are perennial hopefuls for the BCS (LSU, Bama, Auburn, UGA, Fla, and UT.) We played 5 teams in the top 10 this year. It is a tough road, and any weakness will be exposed. We had some major problems this year, and our record stunk because of them. But let us not forget from whence we came.

Fulmer year by year (beginning w/first full season:)
10-2, 8-4, 11-1, 10-2, 11-2, 13-0, 9-3, 8-4, 11-2, 8-5, 10-3, 10-3, 5-6

Majors:
4-7, 5-5-1, 7-5, 5-6, 8-4, 6-5-1, 9-3, 7-4-1, 9-1-2, 7-5, 10-2-1, 5-6, 11-1, 9-2-2, 9-3

I don't post that to bash John Drum, only to show that the "down years" now aren't nearly as frequent as they were during the 70's and 80's. A previous poster stated that TN has one of the best football traditions in the country, and he is correct. But Fulmer has upheld that tradition pretty well under any measurement. Conference and division championships? Check. Overall and conference winning percentage? Check. National Championship? Check. He is right there with, or ahead of, with Neyland and Dickey, the pillars of our tradition.

Tubberville has done a good job. Spurrier, Saban, and Richt have, too. But any empirical comparison will show our boy Phil right there with them or ahead of them as well.

I hate going 5-6. Heck, I don't like going 9-2. But we've got a good coach that I think will get it pointed back in the right direction. To say that the guy can't coach just doesn't fit the facts.
 
#69
#69
Originally posted by cotton@Dec 17, 2005 3:58 PM
Thank you, son.  It is easy to forget that under previous regimes, there were a lot of bad years.  It is easy to forget that for decades, UT was NOT a preseason player for the SEC championship every year.  Fulmer has raised the program and the expectations on the hill to a different level.  I don't like going 5-6 any more than anybody else.  I don't like goint 6 seasons without a BCS bid.  But in those 6 years, TN has won the division twice and has 3 10 win seasons.

Unlike any other conference in the country, the SEC has 6 teams that are perennial hopefuls for the BCS (LSU, Bama, Auburn, UGA, Fla, and UT.)  We played 5 teams in the top 10 this year.  It is a tough road, and any weakness will be exposed.  We had some major problems this year, and our record stunk because of them.  But let us not forget from whence we came.

Fulmer year by year (beginning w/first full season:)
10-2, 8-4, 11-1, 10-2, 11-2, 13-0, 9-3, 8-4, 11-2, 8-5, 10-3, 10-3, 5-6

Majors:
4-7, 5-5-1, 7-5, 5-6, 8-4, 6-5-1, 9-3, 7-4-1, 9-1-2, 7-5, 10-2-1, 5-6, 11-1, 9-2-2, 9-3

I don't post that to bash John Drum, only to show that the "down years" now aren't nearly as frequent as they were during the 70's and 80's.  A previous poster stated that TN has one of the best football traditions in the country, and he is correct.  But Fulmer has upheld that tradition pretty well under any measurement.  Conference and division championships?  Check.  Overall and conference winning percentage?  Check.  National Championship?  Check.  He is right there with, or ahead of, with Neyland and Dickey, the pillars of our tradition.

Tubberville has done a good job.  Spurrier, Saban, and Richt have, too.  But any empirical comparison will show our boy Phil right there with them or ahead of them as well.

I hate going 5-6.  Heck, I don't like going 9-2.  But we've got a good coach that I think will get it pointed back in the right direction.  To say that the guy can't coach just doesn't fit the facts.
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FULMER HAS LOST MORE GAMES IN THE LAST 7 YEARS THEN BOTH MAJORS AND BATTLE DID THEIR LAST 7 YEARS. THEY WERE BOTH FIRED.
 
#70
#70
off the point take a look at our b-ball program nobody wanted to fire buzz last year. gee probably the same people that don't want phil to go. pearl has turned tennessee around and if we could find a good young football coach we could turn them around too. there are alot better coaches than fulmer, one just went to colorado. watch how fast he turns them around. i've stated before as long as fulmer is head coach there will be no more sec championships. he is not agressive enough and don't let the player's play to there stengths. sometimes the players make fulmer look better than he is, but he don't have the great players of the past on this team. the team will be average the rest of his tenure at tennessee that is just the way it it. that is the way he coaches.
 
#71
#71
Originally posted by oklavol@Dec 17, 2005 4:27 PM
FULMER HAS LOST MORE GAMES IN THE LAST 7 YEARS THEN BOTH MAJORS AND BATTLE DID THEIR LAST 7 YEARS.  THEY WERE BOTH FIRED.
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He has also won more games than either of those two in their last 7 full seasons. Both had good stints at UT, and I'm not bashing either. I'm simply pointing out that the "glory days" were a little further in the past and not quite as glorious as some would like to remember.

Consider:
Battle's last two seasons were 7-5 and 6-5, neither ending in a bowl appearance.

Majors had 4 non-winning seasons in 15 full years. He also went 5-3 his last partial season with ugly losses to South Carolina and Arkansas.

Battle had no SEC championships in 7 years. Majors had 3 outright or shared in 15 years. Fulmer has 2 SEC Championships, 3 ourtright or shared division titles, and a National Championship in 13 seasons. Fulmer has finished the year 8 times ranked in the AP top 15 during that time; Battle did it 3 times, Majors 5. Fulmer has had nine 9+ win seasons, Majors 7, Battle 3.

My point is that the program has certainly not "slid" under Fulmer, and I would argue that it is more successful than it has been in 3 decades. This season stunk, but I would remind everyone that even with that abomination, 2 of the last 3 years we have won 10 games.
 
#72
#72
Originally posted by oklavol@Dec 17, 2005 4:27 PM
FULMER HAS LOST MORE GAMES IN THE LAST 7 YEARS THEN BOTH MAJORS AND BATTLE DID THEIR LAST 7 YEARS.  THEY WERE BOTH FIRED.
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That's true. However you missed the fact that Fulmer has played 15 more games than Majors and 14 more games than Battle during the seven years periods (I omitted 1992 entirely for obvious reasons).

Sometimes it's not the quantity of losses, it's who beat you. You do realize that in the 7 years Battle was HC he beat Bama once and Auburn twice, was 1 - 1 against Georgia, and 2 - 1 against Florida when they were lucky to have enough players to field a team.

Majors was 4-12 against Bama, 6 - 7 against Auburn, 1 - 4 against Florida, and 3 - 3- 1 against Georgia.

Fulmer is 10 - 3 against Bama, 3 - 3 against Auburn, 5 - 9 against Florida, and 9 - 5 against Georga.

You will be thrilled if Fulmer can duplicate Majors record after his 5 - 6 season in 1988. 1989 was 10 - 1 (the loss against Bama) and a Cotton Bowl win.

Losing to Bama, Florida and Georgia will get Fulmer long before the total losses. Fulmer has been a Vol a long time. He knows that.

:twocents:

 
#73
#73
fulmer has also had the luxery of excellent talent alot better than battle or majors. point is there are alot better coaches out there it is time we go get one. i also disagree, i think our program has slid. no sec championships since 98, i could give acrap about winning the east that means nothing. after next year's 7-4 or 6-5 season i will again be saying there needs to be a change, and nothing will happen. the program will slide further down the tubes. we will have to have another coach to take us to the elite status and keep us there fulmer is not it. fulmer showed how good of coach he was this year. when things went bad he didn't do anything. i agree that fulmer should have a chance to turn us around, but i don't think he will do it. acouple of bad recruiting seasons and in 4 years we will be lucky to win 5 games.
 
#74
#74
Originally posted by smokedog#3@Dec 17, 2005 5:26 PM
fulmer has also had the luxery of excellent talent alot better than battle or majors.  point is there are alot better coaches out there it is time we go get one.  i also disagree,  i think our program has slid.  no sec championships since 98,  i could give acrap about winning the east that means nothing.  after next year's 7-4 or 6-5 season i will again be saying there needs to be a change,  and nothing will happen.  the program will slide further down the tubes.  we will have to have another coach to take us to the elite status and keep us there fulmer is not it.  fulmer showed how good of coach he was this year.  when things went bad he didn't do anything.  i agree that fulmer should have a chance to turn us around,  but i don't think he will do it.  acouple of bad recruiting seasons and in 4 years we will be lucky to win 5 games.
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Who is responsible for the talent, or lack of it, in the program? I would think that the credit for getting talent would go to the head coach. The blame will certainly be his if the talent level falls.

As for those great coaches out there, who would you suggest we go out and get? The next Ron Zook, or Urban Meyer, or Mike Price, or Tyrone Willingham? Sure, there are some success stories, but it is really easy to think this year's star in the MAC is next year's hall of famer in the SEC when it doesn't often turn out that way.

Fulmer has given us a shot to compete for the SEC championship going into every season he has been there. We will have a shot next year as well. He has made changes to his staff to give the program their best chance to do just that. If UT turns into a perennial 7-4/6-5 program, I'll join the chorus in calling for a change. But one year hasn't convinced me that we have fallen.
 
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