Can / will Fulmer turn it around...

[volfan2024]

:gun: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[MtHomeVol]

This is getting petty. Coach Fulmer will be the head coach next year. That has already been decided, like it or not. We will grade his performance next year, like it or not. Let us not forget that we are all Vol fans. If you read my prior posts, you will see that I blamed Coach Fulmer for this mess. I also believe that he is responsible for many good things about the program. Whether he will let Coach Cutcliffe fix it and how long that will take we will have to wait and see. I repeat "I am cautiously optimistic about next year."

Go Big Orange!

 

[allvol]

This thread is sorely in need of some facts. Here are Fulmer's, Battle's, and Major's records over their last 7 years and here is where I got the stats. Note Fulmers record up to Nov 8 when the article was published was 59-25. (since Nov 8, UT went 2-1).

http://tennessee.scout.com/2/463393.html
Phil Fulmer 61-26 (1999-2005) .701 winning %

Bill Battle 59-22-2 (1970-1976) .728 winning %

Johnny Majors 60-20-5 (1986-1992) .750 winning %

Majors won 3 sec championships and was 5-1 in bowl games during this time. Including wins in 2 sugar bowls and a cotton bowl.

Fulmer is 2-6 in the post season, with 2 losses in SEC title games and losses in 2 peach bowls to 2 acc teams by a total of 57-17.

Fulmer has the worst record of the 3 and both Bill Battle and Majors were fired.

All of this was thoroughly discussed in a thread a few months ago, but we'll rehash it again.

Please get facts straight. Johnny Majors official record from 1986-92 was 56-22-3 which is a .710 winning % He won 2 SEC Championships during that period, in 1989 and 1990. The championship in 1989 was shared and the championship in 1990 was because Florida was on probation. The win over Arkansas in the Cotton bowl was against a top 10 team. The only Sugar Bowl during that time was against an unranked Virginia team. And yes this was discussed that the stats were being posted wrong a few mongths ago!

But we don't need to post any stats here to defend Coach Fulmer. The people that think that Coach Fulmer should be fired are dumber than bammers. Only 2 coachs have EVER won national championships at Tennessee.... EVER. When the Vols win 10+ games again next season, then I want to see you guys post this same crap again.

 

[RealVol]

Here's my opinion on the Fire Fulmer Fued thing. Obviously, that isn't going to happen for another season. Like it or not that is a fact at this time. I started this thread to ask you guys if you thought Fulmer can or WILL turn our current situation around. That mission begins with a good offensive staff & addressing special teams issues.

I simply ask how many think Fulmer is wise enough to select an aggressive, innovative, displicined, expanding & demanding offensive staff. I believe he has selected a staff that will fill 2 of those 5 requirements.

I also asked the thread title to see how many thought Fulmer needs to become a "harsher" coach. I find that a difficult condition for Fulmer to do & maybe even harder for his players to buy into.

Finally I really didn't ask the question to see how many are loyal to Fulmer vs Battle, Majors, etc. If I had, I would have asked who believes in Fulmer more than UT Football. Personally I'm all about UT Football. You guys can waste your harmones on the Fulmer, Battle, Majors battle. But I will clarify my stance on that issue. I would rank CPF 3rd behind Majors & Battle. Give Battle, Majors & for that matter, Bobby Johnson the talent Fulmer recruits and I believe Fulmer would be coaching at Winchester High.

The real question here is if Fulmer (and Staff) can & will be better than Richt, Shula, Meyers, Miles, Tuberville, Johnson, that weird coach at Ole Miss and SOS has answered the question time & again & again.

My friends isn't that the real question.

 

[CSpindizzy]

I can't speak for everyone here but I don't think anyone is calling for Fulmer to be fired. I know many are just trying to show he's not god-like like many here make him out to be.

 

[GAVol]

For me, it's not that I blindly defend Fulmer, it's just that 90% of the reasons I hear for firing him are idiotic.

 

[WA_Vol]

I can't speak for everyone here but I don't think anyone is calling for Fulmer to be fired. I know many are just trying to show he's not god-like like many here make him out to be.

exactly. Thank you.

 

[CSpindizzy]

I think there are only a few here that blindly defend him. And there are only a few who are right now calling for his head. Most everyone here falls in that large but still diverse middle who may be happy or even displeased.

My problem is with those just saying this is just a down year. A down year is having bad recruiting, injuries, etc. You know, things that you can't exactly help that just slowly chip away at one fluke season. This season was far more than that. This season was one of all the problems of the past few years coming to a head. The "Fulmer is God" crowd fluff the winning record issue and say this shows there were no problems. But when you look at the stats a little deeper you see the true issue of what finally came to a head this year. Many on this board saw these problems for years and accurately pointed them out. But nothing was done and these types were labeled naysayers, traitors, bammers, etc. These defenders saw nothing wrong because of the overall record. Finally it took that losing record for everyone to say "hey something is wrong". But even some STILL say this was some one time fluke season. I think it is to those who would follow Fulmer off of a cliff that there are still arguments about Fulmer's performance of late.

 

[GAVol]

I'm somewhere in the middle. I think there are very legitimate concerns with Fulmer, but at the same time, I don't think he suddenly got stupid in 1999 like some people seem to believe.

 

[allvol]

I have never defended Fulmer to the point of thinking of him as "god-like". He is definately not the greatest x's and o's coach. His strength is in recruiting and management. What I do defend is what I think would be a huge mistake to fire him right now. It would be a huge mistake for Tennessee football. And I love Tennessee football. If Tennessee is 5-6 again next year, I'll be the first one in line wanting a new coach. But I don't think that will happen.

If anything, Fulmer has shown himself to be one of the better managers of a football program. However, I do agree he has let friendship cloud his judgement regarding a few key positions. Chavis has worked out.... but there were a few rocky seasons at the start of his tenure as DC. Sanders has not worked out. That is evident. And yes its Fulmer's fault for trying to "train" Sanders into becoming a successful OC. Fulmer should have hired an experienced OC. However, until this season, his training of Sanders was still resulting in 10-win seasons.

It has always been tough to win with a freshman quarterback. It was expected that 1994, 2000, and 2004 would be tough seasons due to inexperience at quarterback. However, the 2002 and most recently 2005 season were tough because of the high expectations. Those are really the 2 pivotal seasons that everyone seems to be most negative about... and I agree. But Fulmer has made the strides I think are necessary to bring the program back to the level of the 1990's and also to win an SEC Championship.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Again, most people finding fault with Fulmer is that these problems that led to this abysmal season were here for a few years. A good coach recognizes these problems early and quickly does something about it. Those with problems with Fulmer question his judgment for taking so long to figure this out. The question is whether there is still another problem where Fulmer waits too long to make the needed moves to correct problems before they linger and then blow up after a few years.

I am personally not calling for Fulmer's head. But I think there are still a few key issues that have gone unresolved or have been swept under the rug. I doubt they will be addressed. All we can do is hope that what changes have been made are enough to turn the program around next year.

 

[wilburnVol]

Blasphemy??? Fulmer has 1 .500 or below year, Neyland has 2 in a row, yet using those statistics.........

:lolabove: :lolabove: :lolabove: :lolabove: :lolabove: :lolabove: :lolabove: :lolabove:

 

[RealVol]

CSpin...

Well stated & from time to time I have been accused of being a "bammer" a gator, a bulldog & a dore. Mind you not here but on that rainbow dreamer site often referred to as VT for short.

I hope Fulmer indeed hires the right personnel & they develop an innovative offense that uses ALL UT's talent & resources to excel. But for that to happen Fulmer has got to become more accountable and demand more from this staff than I've seen him exemplify in the last few years.

One measure of a good Coaching Staff is watching a team improve & adjust during a game, improvement from game to game & development of the squad from 1st game to last game of the season. Ask yourself when was the last time we saw that take place during any of those periods. Note, I'm speaking of offense only.

Fulmer has got to be more demanding of his staff & immediatedly instill anything short of constant improvement & development of our outstanding talent will not cut it at UT. Yes, I know that evidently is a tough stance for Fulmer to take. Regardless of his personality, he has no choice.

No more wimpy excuses, no more wimpy game plans, no more wimpy coaching & no more wimpy head coaching leadership!

 

[U-T]

No more wimpy excuses, no more wimpy game plans, no more wimpy coaching & no more wimpy head coaching leadership!

Why not? The "end of the world" crowd offers these up everyday for reasons to be fired.

Can't we counter back or is that not allowed?

 

[rockydoc]

Why not? The "end of the world" crowd offers these up everyday for reasons to be fired.

Can't we counter back or is that not allowed?

:horse: :horse: :horse: :horse: :horse: :horse:

 

[wilburnVol]

Why not? The "end of the world" crowd offers these up everyday for reasons to be fired.

Can't we counter back or is that not allowed?

QUOTE(allvol @ Dec 20, 2005 3:38 PM)

What I defend is the Tennessee Vols. Fulmer happens to be the head coach. As long as he is the head coach, I will defend him.

While the storm clouds gather far across VolSea,
Let us swear allegiance to a Phil so costly,
Let us all be grateful for a Coach so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer:

God Bless Volmerica.
Land that I love
Stand beside Phil, and guide Phil
Thru the night with no light from his globe.
From his delusions, to the losses ,
To the Vol Fans, white with foam
God bless Volmerica
My home sweet home.

:mf_surrender: :mf_surrender: :mf_surrender: :mf_surrender: :mf_surrender: :mf_surrender:

 

[WA_Vol]

Please get facts straight. Johnny Majors official record from 1986-92 was 56-22-3 which is a .710 winning % He won 2 SEC Championships during that period, in 1989 and 1990. The championship in 1989 was shared and the championship in 1990 was because Florida was on probation. The win over Arkansas in the Cotton bowl was against a top 10 team. The only Sugar Bowl during that time was against an unranked Virginia team. And yes this was discussed that the stats were being posted wrong a few mongths ago!

But we don't need to post any stats here to defend Coach Fulmer. The people that think that Coach Fulmer should be fired are dumber than bammers. Only 2 coachs have EVER won national championships at Tennessee.... EVER. When the Vols win 10+ games again next season, then I want to see you guys post this same crap again.

No you need to get your facts straight. I showed you where I got my stats from, this article.


http://tennessee.scout.com/2/463393.html


He quotes the same win loss record as I did. I think the difference is, your not including Majors post season record in your compilation, he was 5-1 in bowl games during this time.

There is no denying Fulmer has been less successful over the past 7 years then both previous head coaches who ultimately were fired.
7 years without an SEC championship or BCS game is what we have and it got Bill Battle fired.

 

[WA_Vol]

Let me set the record straight for everyone, especially allvol. Here are the records for all 3 coaches and their totals.

Majors last 7 full years as coach

1985 9-1-2
1986 7-5-0
1987 10-2-1
1988 5-6-0
1989 11-1-0
1990 9-2-2
1991 9-3-0

60-20 (.750)
5-1 post season record in bowls

Bill Battle 7 years as coach

1970 11-1-0
1971 10-2-0
1972 10-2-0
1973 8-4-0
1974 7-3-2
1975 7-5-0
1976 6-5-0

59-22 (.728)

Phil Fulmer last 7 years as coach

1999 9-3
2000 8-4
2001 11-2
2002 8-5
2003 10-3
2004 10-3
2005 5-6

61-26 (.701)

2-6 postseason record in bowls (includes 2 losses sec champ. games)

 

[U-T]

Poor bowl records by great coaches are very common. Not that I consider Fulmer "great" or in the same line as these coaches....but just for giggles.

Spurrier is 6-6
Vince Dooley was 8-10-2
Tom Osborne was 12-13
Michigan coach Bo Schembechler won 13 Big 10 titles but was just 5-12 in bowl games.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Mere curiosity does "Phil Fulmer a.k.a. "Football God" actually a phrase used by CPF apologists or by those who try and tarnish his coaching ability?

 

[volmanjr]

So what's your point? Majors got fired for things that did not involve his record (oh and in case you forgot Fulmer was on the staff with Majors) and I don't remember much about the Battle yrs but looks like to me that it was a pretty consistant downward trend , we just came off back to back 10 win seasons, and NC not withstanding last yrs coaching job should earn the man a chance to turn things around. (in response to Oklavol)

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Ever wonder why there is no middle ground in sports?

You either completely love or completely hate/dislike.

 

[GAVol]

Ever wonder why there is no middle ground in sports?

You either completely love or completely hate/dislike.

There's plenty of middle ground, but it's just like anything else in life, you can't find it unless you look for it.

 

[WA_Vol]

So what's your point? Majors got fired for things that did not involve his record (oh and in case you forgot Fulmer was on the staff with Majors) and I don't remember much about the Battle yrs but looks like to me that it was a pretty consistant downward trend , we just came off back to back 10 win seasons, and NC not withstanding last yrs coaching job should earn the man a chance to turn things around.

You really think that if Majors had won an NC at UT he would have still been fired? I don't. They were calling for Majors head in 88 after going 0-6.

The point is, that if you go by Fulmer's win-loss record he hasnt done much since the NC in 98. His win loss record is worse then both Majors and Battle in the 7 years leading up to both of them being fired.

I guess no matter what Fulmer does, he shouldnt be criticized or compared to our previous head coaches?? Is that your point?

 

[OrangeEmpire]

There's plenty of middle ground, but it's just like anything else in life, you can't find it unless you look for it.

Only if there is success............... :biggrin2: