Can / will Fulmer turn it around...

[volmanjr]

You really think that if Majors had won an NC at UT he would have still been fired? I don't. They were calling for Majors head in 88 after going 0-6.

The point is, that if you go by Fulmer's win-loss record he hasnt done much since the NC in 98. His win loss record is worse then both Majors and Battle in the 7 years leading up to both of them being fired.

I guess no matter what Fulmer does, he shouldnt be criticized or compared to our previous head coaches?? Is that your point?

I guess my point is that your stats don't exactly add up to your point, yes this yr sucked , and the coaching sucked, but i would rather be in the situation we've had since Majors left than say Bama's situation, How many coaches have they gone thru in the past 7 yrs? Coach swapping doesn't always become the "magic" bullet to fix the problem (see Ole Miss). And as for Majors firing, yes they used his record as a basis for his firing but if the other problems hadn't existed he would have retired gracefully or been offered a position in the Athletic Dept. My point is IMO Fulmer deserves a chance to make it right, and if that makes me a sheep well then BAAAAA!

 

[RealVol]

I hope Fulmer can become the leader & head coach UT, UT Fans & above all UT player deserve.

One thing is certain, the ball is squarely in his court & it's time for him to become accountable what is done with it...not his players, not a what if, not if this had happened and for sure not another lame excuse why UT cannot develop all the Blue Chip talent we recruit. In other words no more crappy coaching & no more wimpy excuses.

 

[allvol]

No you need to get your facts straight. I showed you where I got my stats from, this article.
http://tennessee.scout.com/2/463393.html
He quotes the same win loss record as I did. I think the difference is, your not including Majors post season record in your compilation, he was 5-1 in bowl games during this time.

There is no denying Fulmer has been less successful over the past 7 years then both previous head coaches who ultimately were fired.
7 years without an SEC championship or BCS game is what we have and it got Bill Battle fired.

The problem is that you (or the article) are including the 1985 season and the 4 games Fulmer coached in 1992 as part of Majors 7 year record. However, to include 1985 is going back 8 years. If you go back 8 years, you have to include 1998 for Phil Fulmer, which was 13-0 and includes a national championship. Majors does not have a comparable season to that at UT. My stats are correct. They have been compiled from the UT media guide. I have every media guide back to 1977.

 

[allvol]

Here's my opinion on the Fire Fulmer Fued thing. Obviously, that isn't going to happen for another season. Like it or not that is a fact at this time. I started this thread to ask you guys if you thought Fulmer can or WILL turn our current situation around. That mission begins with a good offensive staff & addressing special teams issues.

I simply ask how many think Fulmer is wise enough to select an aggressive, innovative, displicined, expanding & demanding offensive staff. I believe he has selected a staff that will fill 2 of those 5 requirements.

I also asked the thread title to see how many thought Fulmer needs to become a "harsher" coach. I find that a difficult condition for Fulmer to do & maybe even harder for his players to buy into.

Finally I really didn't ask the question to see how many are loyal to Fulmer vs Battle, Majors, etc. If I had, I would have asked who believes in Fulmer more than UT Football. Personally I'm all about UT Football. You guys can waste your harmones on the Fulmer, Battle, Majors battle. But I will clarify my stance on that issue. I would rank CPF 3rd behind Majors & Battle. Give Battle, Majors & for that matter, Bobby Johnson the talent Fulmer recruits and I believe Fulmer would be coaching at Winchester High.

The real question here is if Fulmer (and Staff) can & will be better than Richt, Shula, Meyers, Miles, Tuberville, Johnson, that weird coach at Ole Miss and SOS has answered the question time & again & again.

My friends isn't that the real question.

2 of the most talented Tennessee teams EVER were the 1990 and 1991 squads. Their records were a respective 9-2-2 and 9-3. Alvin Harper, Carl Pickens, Chuck Webb, Tony Thompson, James Stewart, Anthony Morgan, Andy Kelly, Charles McRae, Tom Myslinski, Antoine Davis to name a few on offense. On defense... Chris Mims, Chuck Smith, Daryl Hardy, Shon Walker, Ernest Fields, Floyd Miley, Jeremy Lincoln, JJ McClesky, and Dale Carter to name a few. Johnny Majors was the head coach.

I got the Sugar Vols DVD for Christmas. I was watching the Sugar Bowl and they listed Majors winning percentage for his first 9 seasons at UT.... I was amazed, because it was just barely over .500 :blink:

 

[GAVol]

Majors definitely got a honeymoon period unlike any that you would ever see today. In today's game, he probably would have never made it past 1980. He coached at Tennessee for 15 years, and it took until year 13 before he started winning 9 games every year . . . Not trying to denegrate Johnny Majors, just pointing out the obvious.

 

[GAVol]

The problem is that you (or the article) are including the 1985 season and the 4 games Fulmer coached in 1992 as part of Majors 7 year record. However, to include 1985 is going back 8 years. If you go back 8 years, you have to include 1998 for Phil Fulmer, which was 13-0 and includes a national championship. Majors does not have a comparable season to that at UT. My stats are correct. They have been compiled from the UT media guide. I have every media guide back to 1977.

Allvol speaks the truth . . . Fulmer has 61 wins in the last 7 years. Majors had 56 wins in his last 7 years (59 if you give him credit for the 3 wins that CPF got while Majors was still the coach in 1992.)

The win totals are close, but the stat is complete BS.

Go count for yourself

 

[wilburnVol]

As far as Majors being fired, I've heard 2 rumors;

Majors was a drunk, and Majors used a racial epithat at halftime of a bowl game. Now I dont know if those are both true, but I'm not ready to believe that always been rumors as far as I have known. Pretty ugly rumors to be brought up, but since it came up

Depends on what you would term a drunk. Had several friends working the bars who served Johnny more than his fair share of drinks. Did he get drunk, yep. Often, in his position, in public, once was too often and it was way more than once. :bad:

 

[RealVol]

For those locked in on the Majors vs Fulmer vs Battle vs Neyland vs Vanderbilt vs SOS...whatever.

I can't see that has a damn thing to do with thread title / question. If SOMEONE can connect the dots please, please fell free to attempt.

As far as Majors drinking too much, I'll drink to that. Now back to the ? CAN / WILL FULMER TURN IT AROUND?

How Coach Johnny M. plays into that is beyond me.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Now back to the ? CAN / WILL FULMER TURN IT AROUND?

He can.

 

[GAVol]

I can't see that has a damn thing to do with thread title / question. If SOMEONE can connect the dots please, please fell free to attempt.

Easy there . . . It was just a conversation.

Anyhow . . .

Last season was a perfect storm of negative factors: Poor execution, questionable organizational management, questionable personnel move at QB, some staffing decisions coming home to roost, tough schedule, and a dose of crappy luck. It takes hard work for a program like Tennessee to go 5-6.

Just the fact that the schedule eases up and that there is no way a team could be that unlucky two years in a row is probably worth 2 wins from the get go. After that, it just depends on how well the offense buys into David Cutcliffe. One thing I'm pretty sure of is that I don't think there is any way that we will go into fall practice without a clear cut starter at QB.

I'd say 9 wins and competing for the division title is realistic. That may seem overly optimistic, but contrary to popular belief, CPF didn't suddenly become stupid and forget how to coach. He may not be the greatest strategist, but he's proven to be good enough.

 

[holdemvol]

Easy there . . . It was just a conversation.

After that, it just depends on how well the offense buys into David Cutcliffe. One thing I'm pretty sure of is that I don't think there is any way that we will go into fall practice without a clear cut starter at QB.

Another given is that Cut will not accept poor execution and poor practice habits. This alone should make a huge difference.

 

[WA_Vol]

Allvol speaks the truth . . . Fulmer has 61 wins in the last 7 years. Majors had 56 wins in his last 7 years (59 if you give him credit for the 3 wins that CPF got while Majors was still the coach in 1992.)

The win totals are close, but the stat is complete BS.

Go count for yourself

The article and compilation took the LAST 7 FULL SEASONS Majors coached. They didnt count the 92 season because Majors was out part of the year and Fulmer coached part of that year. That was stated in the article and I stated it as well that they took the LAST 7 FULL SEASONS Majors coached.

Nice try though Gavol and Allvol. The Fulmer apologists are going to have regroup and come back with something else.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Nice try though Gavol and Allvol. The Fulmer apologists are going to have regroup and come back with something else.

I am waiting for the personal attacks on you to commence.

 

[volinbham]

Easy there . . . It was just a conversation.

Anyhow . . .

Last season was a perfect storm of negative factors: Poor execution, questionable organizational management, questionable personnel move at QB, some staffing decisions coming home to roost, tough schedule, and a dose of crappy luck. It takes hard work for a program like Tennessee to go 5-6.

Just the fact that the schedule eases up and that there is no way a team could be that unlucky two years in a row is probably worth 2 wins from the get go. After that, it just depends on how well the offense buys into David Cutcliffe. One thing I'm pretty sure of is that I don't think there is any way that we will go into fall practice without a clear cut starter at QB.

I'd say 9 wins and competing for the division title is realistic. That may seem overly optimistic, but contrary to popular belief, CPF didn't suddenly become stupid and forget how to coach. He may not be the greatest strategist, but he's proven to be good enough.

I would include as the lawsuits as a major factor. Fulmer was involved in 4 separate lawsuits. Team Gallion used every tactic to petition for information and depositions. These things take a tremendous amount of mental energy and the results are often delayed.

 

[WA_Vol]

I would include as the lawsuits as a major factor. Fulmer was involved in 4 separate lawsuits. Team Gallion used every tactic to petition for information and depositions. These things take a tremendous amount of mental energy and the results are often delayed.

Exactly. I've also read others sportswriters who commented on Fulmer spending too much time on lawsuits, worrying about who the Athletic director was going to be, personal business interests, Alabama recruiting violations, etc and not enough attention on coaching, developing players, etc.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

I would include as the lawsuits as a major factor. Fulmer was involved in 4 separate lawsuits. Team Gallion used every tactic to petition for information and depositions. These things take a tremendous amount of mental energy and the results are often delayed.

Are you saying that coaches who get sued a lot should get a pass when it comes to job performance OR that good programs should not employ coaches who are lawsuit prone?

 

[WA_Vol]

Just the fact that the schedule eases up and that there is no way a team could be that unlucky two years in a row is probably worth 2 wins from the get go.

I'd say 9 wins and competing for the division title is realistic.

Actually we play the same teams we lost to last year:

Florida
LSU
Georgia
Alabama
South carolina

the only real change is California instead of UAB, who should be quite a bit tougher.

My prediction is we lose 3-4 of these games. Best chances for wins IMO are against Alabama, South Carolina, and California. I think Georgia, LSU, and Florida are probably losses. 8-3 is my guess.

 

[GAVol]

Nice try though Gavol and Allvol. The Fulmer apologists are going to have regroup and come back with something else.

Sorry if I misunderstood the article. You're right, that does indeed make it 61-61, but it in no way addresses the reason that Majors got fired which we talked about earlier.

It's just more of the same though. You think anybody that disagrees with you must be a blind sheep apologist. It may come as a shock to find out that some of us have actually thought it through and just have a differing opinion. :yikes:


Nothing personal, I just dare to disagree.

 

[GAVol]

Actually we play the same teams we lost to last year:

Florida
LSU
Georgia
Alabama
South carolina

the only real change is California instead of UAB, who should be quite a bit tougher.

My prediction is we lose 3-4 of these games. Best chances for wins IMO are against Alabama, South Carolina, and California. I think Georgia, LSU, and Florida are probably losses. 8-3 is my guess.

What I was thinking was that Notre Dame is off the schedule, LSU (who we amazingly beat) is at home, Florida is at home, Alabama is at home.

 

[WA_Vol]

It's just more of the same though. You think anybody that disagrees with you must be a blind sheep apologist. It may come as a shock to find out that some of us have actually thought it through and just have a differing opinion. :yikes:

I look forward to 5 minutes from now when you label someone else for daring to disagree with you.

LOL. You cut me deep Gavol. You cut me real deep.

Gavol i think its time you came out of the closet and admitted your a Fulmer apologist.

 

[GAVol]

And to think, I felt bad and had gone back to edit that out.

 

[volinbham]

God forbid that anyone's held accountable for lack of performing, stupid decisions, etc. Too many kool aid drinkers and sheep nowadays that will defend whoever's in charge for the sole reason of them being in charge. Leaders often make no decision or stupid decisions. People will always be quick to jump on someone's case for making those decisions or lack of. But to criticise the ones criticising makes no sense at all. And defending mediocrity or poor leadership makes even less sense.

Yep, it's not at all "sheep-like" to say a coach needs to go after a bad season :blink:

Yep, "Kool-aid" can in no way be associated with those who jump on every mistake and determine it equates to mediocrity and poor leadership :crazy:

Yep, it is in no way hypocritical to label the defenders of Fulmer as sheep, Kool-aid drinkers and morons but then get indignant that those with a different opinion than yours are criticizing you :biggrin2:

 

[GAVol]

ost-20645-1119625378: Oh the irony . . .

 

[volinbham]

Are you saying that coaches who get sued a lot should get a pass when it comes to job performance OR that good programs should not employ coaches who are lawsuit prone?

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying :crazy:

I'm simply pointing out what was likely a factor in the disappointing season. It also suggests that this season was an anomaly and not an indicator of Fulmer's long-term ability as coach of the Vols. It doesn't excuse the performance but adds perspective.

When you become AD, you can fire any coach after one bad year that you choose :biggrin2:

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

When you become AD, you can fire any coach after one bad year that you choose :biggrin2:

I might be a lot closer to that than you dare imagine.