David Ubben: Will Sabanization of SEC continue to die out or come back harder

#2
#2
Not gonna happen. You can't bottle this stuff, folks. Bama will be trying to replace him in a few years and it will meet with the same results as when we tried to replace the Bear with Bears Boys. Secretariat and Michael Jordan couldn't pass it down genetically. Coach Bryant couldn't pass it down manually. We've been fortunate. In the entire history of college football, the 2 best of all time have coached at Alabama.

It could happen again, someday. My guess is that folks hope it happens somewhere else.
 
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#3
#3
TUSKtimes said:
Not gonna happen. You can't bottle this stuff, folks. Bama will be trying to replace him in a few years and it will meet with the same results as when we tried to replace the Bear with Bears Boys. Secretariat and Michael Jordan couldn't pass it down genetically. Coach Bryant couldn't pass it down manually. We've been fortunate. In the entire history of college football, the 2 best of all time have coached at Alabama.

It could happen again, someday. My guess is that folks hope it happens somewhere else.
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Absolutely want it to happen elsewhere
 
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#5
#5
Let's be honest, nobody is going to replicate Saban. However I do believe its only a matter of time before one of his former assistants beats him. Hell, Smart was right there in his second year at UGA.

I also believe that most SEC AD's know this. Some may be trying to beat Saban just by hiring his assistants, but some just see his assistants as good coaches in their own right. I personally think Pruitt falls in that camp. He comes from a great pedigree even without Saban, and you could make the case he was HC material before his last Alabama stint. I think it is more of Saban finding these guys that are really really good, rather than them being really really good just because they coached under him.
 
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#6
#6
TUSKtimes said:
Not gonna happen. You can't bottle this stuff, folks. Bama will be trying to replace him in a few years and it will meet with the same results as when we tried to replace the Bear with Bears Boys. Secretariat and Michael Jordan couldn't pass it down genetically. Coach Bryant couldn't pass it down manually. We've been fortunate. In the entire history of college football, the 2 best of all time have coached at Alabama.

It could happen again, someday. My guess is that folks hope it happens somewhere else.
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Ya'll didn't do so bad with Perkins, Curry, and Stallings. Stallings was just the better fit of personality for the school and fan base. The only problem stretch you had was after Stallings up until Saban.
 
#7
#7
rjd970 said:
Let's be honest, nobody is going to replicate Saban. However I do believe its only a matter of time before one of his former assistants beats him. Hell, Smart was right there in his second year at UGA.

I also believe that most SEC AD's know this. Some may be trying to beat Saban just by hiring his assistants, but some just see his assistants as good coaches in their own right. I personally think Pruitt falls in that camp. He comes from a great pedigree even without Saban, and you could make the case he was HC material before his last Alabama stint. I think it is more of Saban finding these guys that are really really good, rather than them being really really good just because they coached under him.
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This is more of the point. Since Bama never really seems to miss a beat when they change coaches, its not so much about Saban teaching them to coach. Else, they would have short lulls while he gets his new staff up to par.

Saban has an eye for who can coach and he plugs them into his system. Maybe gives the do's and don'ts of his requirements. But, they are already able to coach at the level he gets from them or he wouldn't have hired them.

He has mastered the art of the HC as a CEO.
 
#9
#9
The first article I clicked on must be pretty old talking about McElwain is the UF coach

Not since that UGA game lol
 
#10
#10
GVF said:
He has mastered the art of the HC as a CEO.
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He's also a tactical defensive genius. His strengths with the details shouldn't be underestimated either.

The way I see it, there are 2 broad sets of skills involved in coaching, or honestly any professional job. There are soft skills and there is tactical knowledge/intelligence.

Soft skills are things like recruiting, hiring/managing a staff, and being able to motivate/lead players. Tactical knowledge is stuff like play calling, game planning, in-game management, etc.

Saban excels at skills in both areas. Most coaches excel at one or the other, usually soft skills at the expense of tactical skills. Most head college football coaches are not great tacticians.
 
#12
#12
Articles is OBE. Saban has changed to recruiting slightly smaller, quicker cover linebackers. So maybe going back to i-formation will now work better.
 
#16
#16
NashVol11 said:
The SEC just doesn’t have as many good coaches now. Some of them left because of him, but mostly schools have just been making bad hires.
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Can't say that for sure until we see how this brand new bunch of coaches work themselves out. The West upgraded with Fisher and Smart seems to be getting it. Muschamp has revived the pot barely left simmering by Steve Spurrier. I've always felt that Mullen needed to be in a better program to max his talents. He is now. Pruitt and Chad Morris will be a wait and see.

For proud football programs like LSU and the barn that wanted to take a flier on their HCs, that is on them. They deserve what they get.
 
#17
#17
TUSKtimes said:
Can't say that for sure until we see how this brand new bunch of coaches work themselves out. The West upgraded with Fisher and Smart seems to be getting it. Muschamp has revived the pot barely left simmering by Steve Spurrier. I've always felt that Mullen needed to be in a better program to max his talents. He is now. Pruitt and Chad Morris will be a wait and see.

For proud football programs like LSU and the barn that wanted to take a flier on their HCs, that is on them. They deserve what they get.
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you can say this pretty much any year in the SEC. always 2 coaches moving on/getting fired.
 
#18
#18
TUSKtimes said:
Can't say that for sure until we see how this brand new bunch of coaches work themselves out. The West upgraded with Fisher and Smart seems to be getting it. Muschamp has revived the pot barely left simmering by Steve Spurrier. I've always felt that Mullen needed to be in a better program to max his talents. He is now. Pruitt and Chad Morris will be a wait and see.

For proud football programs like LSU and the barn that wanted to take a flier on their HCs, that is on them. They deserve what they get.
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I can. Muschamp is trash, Mullen is average and none of them are anywhere close to Meyer or Spurrier.
 
#20
#20
TUSKtimes said:
Or Nick Saban. Now we both just named 3 all-time great coaches. Takes time grasshopper.
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It’s not about time at all. Mullen isn’t going to magically become Spurrier over time. Urban Meyer was better than Mullen from the first day he became a head coach.

But yes, you’re agreeing with my point. The SEC became the best league because it had a bunch of elite coaches, and now most of them are gone.
 
#21
#21
NashVol11 said:
It’s not about time at all. Mullen isn’t going to magically become Spurrier over time. Urban Meyer was better than Mullen from the first day he became a head coach.

But yes, you’re agreeing with my point. The SEC became the best league because it had a bunch of elite coaches, and now most of them are gone.
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Spurrier at SC wasn't Spurrier at Florida. Saban at LSU wasn't Saban at Alabama. And frankly, you don't know what Mullen's will get done at a football school he can recruit to. I mean, beyond your dogmatic statement that it won't happen.
 
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#22
#22
TUSKtimes said:
Spurrier at SC wasn't Spurrier at Florida. Saban at LSU wasn't Saban at Alabama. And frankly, you don't know what Mullen's will get done at a football school he can recruit to. I mean, beyond your dogmatic statement that it won't happen.
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Spurrier was going 11-1 at South Carolina, a program that historically isn’t any better than Mississippi State. Saban won a national title at LSU and beat a loaded Tennessee team to win the conference in 2001.

Mullen has been in the SEC almost a decade now and is like 0-12 in games between two ranked teams (meaning his own team was ranked, before people pull the MSU thing). Most great coaches show greatness everywhere and don’t lose every big game. “Maybe he’ll become great here” is what allowed Dooley and Butch to stick around Tennessee way too long.
 
#23
#23
NashVol11 said:
Spurrier was going 11-1 at South Carolina, a program that historically isn’t any better than Mississippi State. Saban won a national title at LSU and beat a loaded Tennessee team to win the conference in 2001.

Mullen has been in the SEC almost a decade now and is like 0-12 in games between two ranked teams (meaning his own team was ranked, before people pull the MSU thing). Most great coaches show greatness everywhere and don’t lose every big game. “Maybe he’ll become great here” is what allowed Dooley and Butch to stick around Tennessee way too long.
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Didn't stop either from being good coaches. But neither was great. I have often marveled at the 2 and 3-star players Mullen's was often working with at Starkvegas. To have his team at #1 was outstanding and Bama was in a tough fight that year at Tuscaloosa with much more talent.

I think Tennessee should be kicking themselves they didn't get this guy. Now, not sure he even wanted to be there. Was also glad that LSU couldn't see the possibilities over Orgeron. I'm happy to see him out of the West.
 
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#25
#25
NashVol11 said:
The SEC just doesn’t have as many good coaches now. Some of them left because of him, but mostly schools have just been making bad hires.
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A lot of good coaches retired, were fired, or otherwise have left the conference over the past several years:

Phil Fulmer
Urban Meyer
Steve Spurrier
Mark Richt
Les Miles
James Franklin
Bobby Petrino (yes a scumbag, but the guy can coach)
Hugh Freeze (yes he cheated, but I think you're blind if you don't think he's a great coach)

Four of the guys in that list won titles at some point in their careers. Richt almost did. Even Gene Chizik, who I don't think is a great coach, won a national title but had to be fired a couple years later.

In basically every case, their immediate successor was a notably inferior candidate or just turned out badly. Hopefully, there has been an infusion of some better coaching within the conference with Pruitt at Tennessee, Jimbo at A&M, and Mullen at Florida (but he moved intra-conference).

Also, you want to figure out the rise of the Big 10 relative to the SEC, look no further than coaching. Urban, Franklin, Harbaugh, Dantonio. Urban and Franklin left the SEC, so the SEC's loss was the Big 10's direct gain in those instances. Pat Fitzgerald I think is a pretty good coach. Ferentz is overrated but a pillar of stability and very rarely has a truly bad team.
 
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