Define "sellout" within the music industry

#1
malinoisvol

malinoisvol

Pick up your Balls and Rattle your Cannons!
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#1
I asked this question in the Zone and thought I'd better move it over here along with the replies.
malinoisvol said:
@Behr or anyone, have you ever heard/read an article/post by anyone complaining about a band being a "sellout"? Wth are they getting at? I've read/heard people talking about Metallica being a sell out starting with the Black album, iirc.

I dont get it. TIA
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Orangeslice13 said:
Metallica made a habit of saying to their fans they would not sell out. They would make their music and not worry about money. Then their music changed pretty drastically with the black album leading to accusations of “sell out”. However Burton died in 1986 and he was the main inspiration of the band. I don’t think sellout is appropriate so much as a paradigm shift.

Just my opinion
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Thanks, Slice. They hired Bob Rock to help them with the Black album. He changed the way they recorded the music, supposedly to give them more of a "live" sound/feel. It seemed to have worked. They increased there audience and sells exponentially, and, afterall, isn't that what it's all about? Hell, that's when I took notice of them.

tnuhcvols said:
I would say the commercial success of an album to a much broader audience is generally considered by the original fans of the band a "sellout". That they catered to the producer's, etc, desires to create a commercial success that varied in style or content in a manner not appreciated or liked by the smaller group of fans that originally followed the band. I don't generally put a lot of stock in this as many bands, or artists, evolve, or mature, as they create more and more material. Sometimes it appeals to more people somtimes it don't. The black album was different and more mainstream than previous albums. Did they just come up with different material out of boredom and creative expression, or cater to the "man" who demanded better sales numbers?
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Thanks, tnuhcvols. I agree with your entire post, especially the bolded. I'd guess that it was a combination of both in your last sentence.
Behr said:
Billy Ray Cyrus sold out and got famous with a pos commercialized tune called Achy Breaky Heart. Travis Tritt called him out on it too. Lol. Fun times.

Toby Keith didn't sell out, he told everyone to kiss his ass then mocked them with Red Solo Cup. Brilliant.
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Thanks, Behr. Ole Billy Ray...sold himself and then his daughter. I remember Billy tossing a quarter at Travis and saying "here's a quarter, call someone who cares" at a music award show. L O L

Toby is the man. I'm not a new country kinda guy, but, if I had to listen to it, Toby would be on my playlist.

TL;DR
Ikr

Anyone else have an example? I picked on Metallica because when it comes to "sellouts", it seems their name is always on a list.
 
#4
#4
It's always going to be a subjective judgment by 3rd parties but I would say a sellout is an artist who changes fundamental characteristics of the type of art generated solely/primarily for the money/fame. For example, people call Metallica sellouts because they got so big and became so commercial but I don't think there was anything that fundamentally changed. It's hard to stay raw forever, especially if life is comfortable and good. Metallica didn't lose their edge because they wanted to make as much money as possible. I think it was a natural progression and probably a good sign for their personal lives.

When I think of selling out, I think of the reinvention of Jewel

 
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#6
#6
Speaking about Metallica, there's a few reason people would call them sellouts. Some would point to the music and image. Some would point to how they used to fight against stealing and the man, but now they conspire with Live Nation to control and manipulate their concert tickets....because of money.

That Jewel video is hilarious. Hadn't seen that. I saw her very early on opening for Edwin McCain at Flamingos on the strip. She was excellent in those days.
 
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#7
#7
I think any time a band moves from making music that’s a bit more tailored to watering it down for the masses you’re going to get accusations of selling out. But ultimately it’s up to the artists. Most of them won’t have a long successful career, so they do what they can to cash in when they get a chance. I don’t know how you fault them for that, and at the end of the day if they can live with themselves then it’s not my business. I would say country music has loads of people who’ve gone from grinding in bars and clubs to playing arenas and the more popular they get the more their music is distilled into mass consumption grade. Like if Steve Earle started singing songs about girls dancing in trucks and field parties that would sell music and tickets but it would be a complete 180 and an obvious sellout.
 
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#8
#8
95 Vol Alum said:
I thought Metallica got the label by moving away from “speed metal”.
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I'm sure purists make this argument but I'm not sure that I'd call that a fundamental change, so I'd say it's not selling out.

@DrRosenRosen I do agree that the Napster/Live Nation stuff probably should count as selling out. It's not very metal to become the man.
 
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#10
#10
DancingOutlaw said:
I think any time a band moves from making music that’s a bit more tailored to watering it down for the masses you’re going to get accusations of selling out. But ultimately it’s up to the artists. Most of them won’t have a long successful career, so they do what they can to cash in when they get a chance. I don’t know how you fault them for that, and at the end of the day if they can live with themselves then it’s not my business. I would say country music has loads of people who’ve gone from grinding in bars and clubs to playing arenas and the more popular they get the more their music is distilled into mass consumption grade. Like if Steve Earle started singing songs about girls dancing in trucks and field parties that would sell music and tickets but it would be a complete 180 and an obvious sellout.
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I think it's natural for artists to want to do a variety of things, so naturally they're going to have an album that's more commercial than others. I love Arcade Fire. Their first album was raw and edgy and innovative. Their 2nd album was even more niche and pretty emo. Their 3rd album was much more commercial and appealed to a larger audience. It was still kinda unique but it was like it was their attempt at pop music. They won the grammy. Then they went back to being weird. It's my least favorite album of theirs (the best way to describe it is it's their wimpiest work) but it's still a good album. Fans might say they sold out but what if it wasn't about awards or money? What if they just had an artistic curiosity "if we made an album for the masses, what would it sound like?" Who can fault them for that pursuit? I'll typically give artists the benefit of the doubt.
 
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#11
#11
n_huffhines said:
It's always going to be a subjective judgment by 3rd parties but I would say a sellout is an artist who changes fundamental characteristics of the type of art generated solely/primarily for the money/fame. For example, people call Metallica sellouts because they got so big and became so commercial but I don't think there was anything that fundamentally changed. It's hard to stay raw forever, especially if life is comfortable and good. Metallica didn't lose their edge because they wanted to make as much money as possible. I think it was a natural progression and probably a good sign for their personal lives.

When I think of selling out, I think of the reinvention of Jewel

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Yup. At the time I remember thinking that this video was supposed to be a goof. Like she was trying to be ironic but no. No she really was chasing the "Brittany" demographic. It kind of killed her career.
 
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#12
#12
To be honest, I actually didn't mind Metallica's change in musical direction at the time. Being a fan of both hard rock and metal, it was all good as far as I was concerned. I loved the Black Album and Load when they came out. Re-Load to a lesser degree but there were some really good songs on there. I just think after And Justice For All, what more could they have done in the thrash metal genre they hadn't already accomplished? I think they made the right decision honestly.
 
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#15
#15
Part of what gave Metallica the sell out label was the music video for One. Before they made the video, they stated that they would never ever make a video for MTV because they were all about the music. That apparently cause a lot of controversy with their underground following.

A great example of selling out was when MC Hammer tried to get on the gangster rap scene. He went from positive rapper to a “thug” overnight and even put out a video where he’s only wearing a speedo. “Pumps and a Bump” was not his finest hour.
 
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#16
#16
Brave Volunteer said:
To be honest, I actually didn't mind Metallica's change in musical direction at the time. Being a fan of both hard rock and metal, it was all good as far as I was concerned. I loved the Black Album and Load when they came out. Re-Load to a lesser degree but there were some really good songs on there. I just think after And Justice For All, what more could they have done in the thrash metal genre they hadn't already accomplished? I think they made the right decision honestly.
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Four horsemen is the best song they ever did, best album was def Kill em All
 
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#19
#19
The only time I thought Metallica "sold out" was Load. Not because of the music, but because they all changed the way they looked. If they hadn't radically changed how they tried to look and just made those records, I don't think it would have been that big of a deal. They just looked like they were trying to radically change their image.
 
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#23
#23
DancingOutlaw said:
Those guys didn’t sell out. They were never about artistic anything, they were brought together to form a product to sell. Much of the industry is simply plugging a person into a process to produce a “star”.
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It was a joke, as was the comment about Eric Church.
Did you grow up under power lines?
 
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#25
#25
davethevol said:
Part of what gave Metallica the sell out label was the music video for One. Before they made the video, they stated that they would never ever make a video for MTV because they were all about the music. That apparently cause a lot of controversy with their underground following.

A great example of selling out was when MC Hammer tried to get on the gangster rap scene. He went from positive rapper to a “thug” overnight and even put out a video where he’s only wearing a speedo. “Pumps and a Bump” was not his finest hour.
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6th grade. Lol
Yeah this is the perfect example I think.... the hammer part
 
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