Don't give up yet!

[titansvolsfaninga]

You are slow if you don't understand that his every other stop included Central Michigan and Cincy and there is no evidence what worked there has to work against the big boys (it may eventually but it's unknown for sure right now). People often link CBJ with Kelly who according to some has done well at ND. But we saw how well his schemes worked when he met our primary historical rival Bama (about as well as CBJ did vs Saban a few weeks ago).

Where did Saban come from? What about Meyer? You act like there is an SEC coaches factory where the coaches are created. You have to start somewhere. The problem is not scheme, but lack of team speed. Butch recruited his players, not Kelly. It seems that Butchs players are doing ok a Cincinatti since he left.

UT had an SEC coach five years ago, but he was fired. At some point you have to give our current coach a chance.

 

[TGVol]

The problem is not scheme, but lack of team speed.
UT had an SEC coach five years ago, but he was fired. At some point you have to give our current coach a chance.

1. We don't know yet if the problem is scheme or lack of speed (you bring up Meyer and Saban which is a fair point but remember that many more fail than make it so those two are more an exception than the rule).

2. NC winning real SEC coach we had 5 years ago obviously should not have been fired.

3. I am giving CBJ a chance - but he nature in being in a big job like this is to be scrutinized and criticized and be able to handle and defend your decisions. We are more than half way through year 1 and there are some patterns that are obvious. It was promising that early in the year defense seemed to be improving and playing more disciplined - it was ok to point that out back then and it's equally ok to point out now that we again look like under Sunseri (no discipline and bad scheme given the personnel we have). Same applies to offense - it was ok to give them credit for no penalties early in the season and for some of the stuff they did vs UGA and SCjr but ultimately as far as offense goes there has so far been more reason for disappointment than praise).

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

1. We don't know yet if the problem is scheme or lack of speed (you bring up Meyer and Saban which is a fair point but remember that many more fail than make it so those two are more an exception than the rule).

2. NC winning real SEC coach we had 5 years ago obviously should not have been fired.

3. I am giving CBJ a chance - but he nature in being in a big job like this is to be scrutinized and criticized and be able to handle and defend your decisions. We are more than half way through year 1 and there are some patterns that are obvious. It was promising that early in the year defense seemed to be improving and playing more disciplined - it was ok to point that out back then and it's equally ok to point out now that we again look like under Sunseri (no discipline and bad scheme given the personnel we have). Same applies to offense - it was ok to give them credit for no penalties early in the season and for some of the stuff they did vs UGA and SCjr but ultimately as far as offense goes there has so far been more reason for disappointment than praise).

We can agree on point number two, but team speed is a major problem ALONG with player development. It's like some of these players don't even know the basics, which is sad. As far as speed goes, watch a replay of any game and notice how much of a cushion the CB's give the WR. That is a tale tale sign of trying not to get beat deep.

 

[cbbowlingmd]

To be fair, it was in the Big East and
MAC

Hopefully, he can continue, but its going to take a few staff changes to get there

I'm so tired of hearing this argument. You know that Louisville team in the Big East had a pretty good bowl game against an SEC opponent last year. Ask the gators how that turned out for them.

 

[TGVol]

That is a tale tale sign of trying not to get beat deep.

And the tale tale sign of having a wide open receiver in the back of your end zone with nobody within 30 yards of him is trying to not get beat deep? Or maybe, just maybe, it could instead be a tale tale sign of lack of discipline in tracking the guy you are supposed to cover?

 

[ChattanoogaVols]

And the tale tale sign of having a wide open receiver in the back of your end zone with nobody within 30 yards of him is trying to not get beat deep? Or maybe, just maybe, it could instead be a tale tale sign of lack of discipline in tracking the guy you are supposed to cover?

Just fyi, the phrase is "tell tale". I made the same mistake until someone set me straight.

 

[ChattanoogaVols]

We can agree on point number two, but team speed is a major problem ALONG with player development. It's like some of these players don't even know the basics, which is sad. As far as speed goes, watch a replay of any game and notice how much of a cushion the CB's give the WR. That is a tale tale sign of trying not to get beat deep.

It isn't necessarily because of a disparity in speed. This type of presnap alignment is used in the NFL as well, by DB's who have no problem w/speed.

 

[TGVol]

Just fyi, the phrase is "tell tale". I made the same mistake until someone set me straight.

Thanks - but let's not get too stressed about it on the football forum

 

[ChattanoogaVols]

Thanks - but let's not get too stressed about it on the football forum

Haha sorry, I wasn't stressin' about it, just wanted to let you know for future reference. I tried to say it in the least-douchey way possible. Sorry if it came across otherwise.

 

[Dragon18]

Same was said about Sunseri (until it got old hearing that and that happened very quickly). What we do know about Jancek however is that he had already failed in the SEC when he was at UGA - that makes it a harder sell that we should wait (it's not like he is unknown quantity). With our OC it's a little bit different and perhaps he should get some more time if CBJ really believes in him (although I personally would like him gone as well because I hate the spread).

So is it your contention that our defensive team speed is adequate? If your answer to that question is yes than we really have nothing else to discuss because we will be too far apart on what we believe to be true.

It is not a logical argument to say something to the effect of "that's what they said about Sunseri". It's called a straw man because the two are totally different but you want to say look at this... because it was true here it has to be true with the current situation. It just doesn't really make sense to even try to compare the two.

Maybe you just can't be happy with anything until we are back on top. If that's the case I fear you have at least one more year of misery in front of you. You might try and just either relax and give this coach a year or two to get his system(s) in place along with his players. Or you might try just not watching UT for a year or so because it seems you are just really going to be slamming your head against the proverbial wall because Jones will not be going anywhere for at least 2 more years. I hope you try and find a way to see the positive things CBJ is getting done right now. BTW we have the number 2 recruiting class in the country right now and the Berry twins committed this morning. eace2:

 

[TGVol]

So is it your contention that our defensive team speed is adequate? If your answer to that question is yes than we really have nothing else to discuss because we will be too far apart on what we believe to be true.

It is not a logical argument to say something to the effect of "that's what they said about Sunseri". It's called a straw man because the two are totally different but you want to say look at this... because it was true here it has to be true with the current situation. It just doesn't really make sense to even try to compare the two.

Maybe you just can't be happy with anything until we are back on top. If that's the case I fear you have at least one more year of misery in front of you. You might try and just either relax and give this coach a year or two to get his system(s) in place along with his players. Or you might try just not watching UT for a year or so because it seems you are just really going to be slamming your head against the proverbial wall because Jones will not be going anywhere for at least 2 more years. I hope you try and find a way to see the positive things CBJ is getting done right now. BTW we have the number 2 recruiting class in the country right now and the Berry twins committed this morning. eace2:

Here is what I think (hoping to address most of your points in one post):

1. Our team speed is not good enough - far from it (not only defense but offense as well).

2. Our assistant coaching talent is not good enough - far from it (especially defense but offense as well)

3. Points 1 and 2 above and not mutually exclusive - we need upgrade in both

4. I support CBJ because of amazing recruiting he has done so far and because of huge amount of positive energy he has generated around the program. Having said that the one thing I did not support and continue to think he made mistake is bringing his entire Cincy staff here. I'm convinced the DC will continue to suck in big games, and I'm a little more open minded about the OC (he has called a great second half vs UGA and a decent game vs SCjr) - but I generally don't think spread will ever beat teams with discipline and speed like Bama and LSU and I would rather we try to go back to what we did best when Peyton was here (pro style offense). Having said this does not mean I want CBJ fired - far from it - if he pulls that top 5 class he deserves at least as much time as Dooley had (even if I don't agree with his choice of staff).

5. I will continue to watch UT as I please, and comment here as well - positive or negative depending on how I see it. So you either get used to it or try to work with the admins to get me banned if you don't like it.

 

[Dragon18]

Here is what I think (hoping to address most of your points in one post):

1. Our team speed is not good enough - far from it (not only defense but offense as well).

2. Our assistant coaching talent is not good enough - far from it (especially defense but offense as well)

3. Points 1 and 2 above and not mutually exclusive - we need upgrade in both

4. I support CBJ because of amazing recruiting he has done so far and because of huge amount of positive energy he has generated around the program. Having said that the one thing I did not support and continue to think he made mistake is bringing his entire Cincy staff here. I'm convinced the DC will continue to suck in big games, and I'm a little more open minded about the OC (he has called a great second half vs UGA and a decent game vs SCjr) - but I generally don't think spread will ever beat teams with discipline and speed like Bama and LSU and I would rather we try to go back to what we did best when Peyton was here (pro style offense). Having said this does not mean I want CBJ fired - far from it - if he pulls that top 5 class he deserves at least as much time as Dooley had (even if I don't agree with his choice of staff).

5. I will continue to watch UT as I please, and comment here as well - positive or negative depending on how I see it. So you either get used to it or try to work with the admins to get me banned if you don't like it.

I will address point 5 first. I could care less if you post your comments or not, and of course you can watch UT and post as you see fit. I'll not try to get you banned, I welcome your thoughts and all others.

As for your assumptions about the DC and OC, I think you are premature on both until the agreed upon deficiency in speed is corrected. What many see as deficiencies in scheme, and to a lesser extent, technique can both be a function solely in speed of play. It's MUCH easier to utilize proper technique if you are two yards earlier. As an ex D1 player myself, I can tell you that we are late to the spot repeatedly and it leads to grasping at a player rather than utilizing proper technique to make a solid tackle. This is not always the case and I get that. All I'm saying is that you should be patient for a year or two and let the coaches get their guys in there before you make definitive assessments about them. There is simply not enough data for that yet.

I have no idea if the read option will be successful in the SEC long term. It is working for a few schools currently and I believe it will probably gain more traction going forward. Only time will tell.

You make some good points and I don't disagree with you entirely. I just think you may be making definitive assessments before we really know for sure. The talent pool truly is pretty low currently and no scheme works when the other team has players more capable of executing their assignments.eace2:

 

[TGVol]

I will address point 5 first. I could care less if you post your comments or not, and of course you can watch UT and post as you see fit. I'll not try to get you banned, I welcome your thoughts and all others.

As for your assumptions about the DC and OC, I think you are premature on both until the agreed upon deficiency in speed is corrected. What many see as deficiencies in scheme, and to a lesser extent, technique can both be a function solely in speed of play. It's MUCH easier to utilize proper technique if you are two yards earlier. As an ex D1 player myself, I can tell you that we are late to the spot repeatedly and it leads to grasping at a player rather than utilizing proper technique to make a solid tackle. This is not always the case and I get that. All I'm saying is that you should be patient for a year or two and let the coaches get their guys in there before you make definitive assessments about them. There is simply not enough data for that yet.

I have no idea if the read option will be successful in the SEC long term. It is working for a few schools currently and I believe it will probably gain more traction going forward. Only time will tell.

You make some good points and I don't disagree with you entirely. I just think you may be making definitive assessments before we really know for sure. The talent pool truly is pretty low currently and no scheme works when the other team has players more capable of executing their assignments.eace2:

After a lot of writing and reading (both ways) it seems the only thing we will really continue to disagree on is our DC. I happen to think there is already enough data on him out there (UGA game vs Kiffin, Cincy game vs Dooley, and 3 blowouts this year on our staff). But it does not really matter - CBJ will obviously go with him for a while (probably would send the wrong message to that great recruiting class right now to fire him anyway).

 

[DazzleVol]

.

 

[Dragon18]

After a lot of writing and reading (both ways) it seems the only thing we will really continue to disagree on is our DC. I happen to think there is already enough data on him out there (UGA game vs Kiffin, Cincy game vs Dooley, and 3 blowouts this year on our staff). But it does not really matter - CBJ will obviously go with him for a while (probably would send the wrong message to that great recruiting class right now to fire him anyway).

I'm good with it. Thanks for the discussion.eace2: