Econ 101: taxes are a cost (expense)

#1

RespectTradition

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#1
From the IRS website:

Deducting Business Expenses

excerpt:

"Other Types of Business Expenses

Employees' Pay - You can generally deduct the pay you give your employees for the services they perform for your business.
Retirement Plans - Retirement plans are savings plans that offer you tax advantages to set aside money for your own, and your employees' retirement.
Rent Expense - Rent is any amount you pay for the use of property you do not own. In general, you can deduct rent as an expense only if the rent is for property you use in your trade or business. If you have or will receive equity in or title to the property, the rent is not deductible.
Interest - Business interest expense is an amount charged for the use of money you borrowed for business activities.
Taxes - You can deduct various federal, state, local, and foreign taxes directly attributable to your trade or business as business expenses.
Insurance - Generally, you can deduct the ordinary and necessary cost of insurance as a business expense, if it is for your trade, business, or profession.
"

From investor dictionary:

Cost definition - Define meaning of Cost

"Something of value, usually an amount of money, given up in exchange for something else, usually goods or services. All expenses are costs, but not all costs are expenses. (An expense is the cost of resources used to produce revenue.) As a verb, cost means to estimate the amount of money needed to produce a product or perform a service."
 
#4
#4
with LG, you might get a coherent response. utgibbs will be another story
 
#5
#5
Just like he ignors the fact that taxing capital gains is double taxation, yet he wants it taxed at full rate the second time also. But only if you are rich!
 
#6
#6
Just like he ignors the fact that taxing capital gains is double taxation, yet he wants it taxed at full rate the second time also. But only if you are rich!

If you ever try and break down the true cost of taxation on a moderately complex product, you will cry. What makes it so bad is that the cost (and yes it is a cost!) of taxation is ultimately passed on to the consumer or borne by the workers.

Consider, X pays taxes on his employees. His employees are taxed and X has to compensate them at a higher amount so that their after-tax income is high enough to attract good workers. X mines for ore. X sells the ore to Y and is taxed on that. Y repeats the process, but refines the ore and makes some part. Y sells the part and pays taxes again. Z buys the part and has the same taxes as the others. Then he makes a final product, which he sells and is taxed for. The the wholesaler has the same taxes and he sells it and pays more taxes. The retailer then buys it and he has the same operating taxes as the rest of them. Then he sells it and has to pay taxes plus the consumer has to pay taxes at point of sale. If you ever did out all the costs of the taxes for all the components from start to finish on a product and all the taxes on the employees, it becomes crazy. Plus, the cost the consumer pays and is charged sales tax on is a cost that reflects the previous taxes so he is actually paying a large portion of his sales taxes on the taxes that are bundled into the cost of the product. AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!
 
#7
#7
If you ever try and break down the true cost of taxation on a moderately complex product, you will cry. What makes it so bad is that the cost (and yes it is a cost!) of taxation is ultimately passed on to the consumer or borne by the workers.Consider, X pays taxes on his employees. His employees are taxed and X has to compensate them at a higher amount so that their after-tax income is high enough to attract good workers. X mines for ore. X sells the ore to Y and is taxed on that. Y repeats the process, but refines the ore and makes some part. Y sells the part and pays taxes again. Z buys the part and has the same taxes as the others. Then he makes a final product, which he sells and is taxed for. The the wholesaler has the same taxes and he sells it and pays more taxes. The retailer then buys it and he has the same operating taxes as the rest of them. Then he sells it and has to pay taxes plus the consumer has to pay taxes at point of sale. If you ever did out all the costs of the taxes for all the components from start to finish on a product and all the taxes on the employees, it becomes crazy. Plus, the cost the consumer pays and is charged sales tax on is a cost that reflects the previous taxes so he is actually paying a large portion of his sales taxes on the taxes that are bundled into the cost of the product. AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!

I've been saying this for months on here. People need to understand how much taxes actually dictate salary.
 
#8
#8
I mean, I had to read the OP twice just to make sure I wasn't dreaming.

Really? Are you really suggesting that excerpt establishes taxes as a cost?

Moderators: this thread should be retitled Econ -101.

Taxes are not a cost. Taxes on profits cannot be passed to consumers. Taxes never prevent investment.
 
#9
#9
I mean, I had to read the OP twice just to make sure I wasn't dreaming.

Really? Are you really suggesting that excerpt establishes taxes as a cost?

Moderators: this thread should be retitled Econ -101.

Taxes are not a cost. Taxes on profits cannot be passed to consumers. Taxes never prevent investment.

u know it lg
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#10
#10
If you ever try and break down the true cost of taxation on a moderately complex product, you will cry. What makes it so bad is that the cost (and yes it is a cost!) of taxation is ultimately passed on to the consumer or borne by the workers.

Consider, X pays taxes on his employees. His employees are taxed and X has to compensate them at a higher amount so that their after-tax income is high enough to attract good workers. X mines for ore. X sells the ore to Y and is taxed on that. Y repeats the process, but refines the ore and makes some part. Y sells the part and pays taxes again. Z buys the part and has the same taxes as the others. Then he makes a final product, which he sells and is taxed for. The the wholesaler has the same taxes and he sells it and pays more taxes. The retailer then buys it and he has the same operating taxes as the rest of them. Then he sells it and has to pay taxes plus the consumer has to pay taxes at point of sale. If you ever did out all the costs of the taxes for all the components from start to finish on a product and all the taxes on the employees, it becomes crazy. Plus, the cost the consumer pays and is charged sales tax on is a cost that reflects the previous taxes so he is actually paying a large portion of his sales taxes on the taxes that are bundled into the cost of the product. AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!

I am married to a CPA. We pay more in taxes every year, both personal and business, than most on here make in three of four years. I know the true cost of taxation and it is sad to think that our elected leaders think they need more revenue.
 
#11
#11
I mean, I had to read the OP twice just to make sure I wasn't dreaming.

Really? Are you really suggesting that excerpt establishes taxes as a cost?

Moderators: this thread should be retitled Econ -101.

Taxes are not a cost. Taxes on profits cannot be passed to consumers. Taxes never prevent investment.

yep, I knew you'd chime in with some incoherent blather that has no basis in the real world
 
#12
#12
I mean, I had to read the OP twice just to make sure I wasn't dreaming.

Really? Are you really suggesting that excerpt establishes taxes as a cost?

Moderators: this thread should be retitled Econ -101.

Taxes are not a cost. Taxes on profits cannot be passed to consumers. Taxes never prevent investment.

Now you are hedging your statement. Nice back peddle.
 
#13
#13
I mean, I had to read the OP twice just to make sure I wasn't dreaming.

Really? Are you really suggesting that excerpt establishes taxes as a cost?

Moderators: this thread should be retitled Econ -101.

Taxes are not a cost. Taxes on profits cannot be passed to consumers. Taxes never prevent investment.

Oh I get it.

You have figured out a way not to pay taxes thus keeping more of your money. Id be ashamed.
 
#14
#14
I mean, I had to read the OP twice just to make sure I wasn't dreaming.

Really? Are you really suggesting that excerpt establishes taxes as a cost?

Moderators: this thread should be retitled Econ -101.

Taxes are not a cost. Taxes on profits cannot be passed to consumers. Taxes never prevent investment.

Do me a favor please. Source your info just this once. Show me where some reputable expert/site says that taxes are not a cost and that explains why. You understand, that I am not a trusting person and don't just take people's word for it. If, as you suggest, it is basic economics that taxes are not a cost, then it should be really easy to do. Pretty please?

The experts I find say that all business expenses are a cost. The IRS says that taxes are a business expense. What other conclusion is a poor deceived and ignorant soul like myself supposed to come to? If you would show me how I am wrong, not just asserting it, but proving it, then I will gladly change my mind and feel gratitude for you that I always feel when someone shows me a better way.
 
#15
#15
I mean, I had to read the OP twice just to make sure I wasn't dreaming.
Do you hallucinate so often that you have trouble telling reality from your dreams?
Really? Are you really suggesting that excerpt establishes taxes as a cost?
Yes.
Moderators: this thread should be retitled Econ -101.
You are right. This topic is actually too basic to be in an Econ 101 course. This is more a truth learned in high school.
Taxes are not a cost. Taxes on profits cannot be passed to consumers. Taxes never prevent investment.
I'll take these three one at a time. 1) Yes they are. 2) When an exemption was taken from my company a couple of years ago by a change in the tax law we immediately raised our rates to compensate. So, I guess we passed that tax on to the consumers. 3) I personally have not made certain investments because of tax implications. I have also made other investments specifically to avoid taxes. So never is not true.
 
#16
#16
I mean, I had to read the OP twice just to make sure I wasn't dreaming.

Really? Are you really suggesting that excerpt establishes taxes as a cost?

Moderators: this thread should be retitled Econ -101.

Taxes are not a cost. Taxes on profits cannot be passed to consumers. Taxes never prevent investment.

BS.

The cost of my product is baed upon what the market will pay and making sure my net gain is maximed. I factor my net gain by deducting the TOTAL cost of expenses. Payroll expenses include the taxes I MUST MATCH BY LAW. If this tax goes up, I must raise my cost to the consumer to keep at the same NET GAIN.

If you disagree with this you are a liar and do not own a single business nor ever have. You also have never ran a single payroll and have no clue how much the taxes employers must pay is factor into profit margins.
 
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#17
#17
I mean, I had to read the OP twice just to make sure I wasn't dreaming.

Really? Are you really suggesting that excerpt establishes taxes as a cost?

Moderators: this thread should be retitled Econ -101.

Taxes are not a cost. Taxes on profits cannot be passed to consumers. Taxes never prevent investment.

Same stupid semantics idiocy that lets you avoid the actual economics of the situation.

Projected taxes on pro forma EBIT is absolutely passed on to consumers. If you don't get that, you need to shut your piehole and stick to talking about something you know more about - football (I laughed).
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#19
#19
I wonder why utgibbs always seems to ignore me when I ask for facts? Was it something I said?

Do ya'll think he just doesn't like me?
 
#20
#20
Same stupid semantics idiocy that lets you avoid the actual economics of the situation.

Projected taxes on pro forma EBIT is absolutely passed on to consumers. If you don't get that, you need to shut your piehole and stick to talking about something you know more about - football (I laughed).
Posted via VolNation Mobile

seems Gibbs leaves the real world right outside his backdoor and in his historic time when convenient.

understanding the role of profit for a going concern would be a great place for him to start.
 
#21
#21
seems Gibbs leaves the real world right outside his backdoor and in his historic time when convenient.

understanding the role of profit for a going concern would be a great place for him to start.

I actually don't have a backdoor in my house. So am I just totally screwed?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#25
#25
I am married to a CPA. We pay more in taxes every year, both personal and business, than most on here make in three of four years. I know the true cost of taxation and it is sad to think that our elected leaders think they need more revenue.

So what?

Maybe most, but I am certain not all.

I know the true cost of taxation too and it's not nearly as simple as you are making it out to be. In fact, in it's(tax code, structure) current state, it's too complex
 

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