Economy rebounding?

#1
lawgator1

lawgator1

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#1
Jobs growth twice what was forecast for October, up 151,000. August and September also revised upward. Auto manufacturers reporting substantial increases year over year for October. Lots of other signs things are picking up.

Interesting.
 
#2
#2
lawgator1 said:
Jobs growth twice what was forecast for October, up 151,000. August and September also revised upward. Auto manufacturers reporting substantial increases year over year for October. Lots of other signs things are picking up.

Interesting.
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Not as interesting as you're making this out to be. Up over a year ago and moribund expectations is meaningless.

This new election might help over a little time, but most will wait to see how the gridlock plays out before doing much. Unemployment claims also outstripped expectations as well.
 
#3
#3
BigPapaVol said:
Not as interesting as you're making this out to be. Up over a year ago and moribund expectations is meaningless.

This new election might help over a little time, but most will wait to see how the gridlock plays out before doing much. Unemployment claims also outstripped expectations as well.
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Too funny.

Republicans and conservatives throughout the '08 campaign insisted that the government has nothing to do with the economy.

Then when Obama won, that refrain was modified slightly to be that he could make it worse, anyway.

Now that the GOP has taken the House, you open the door to the possibility that maybe the government could actually help.

And now that it appears that the economy likely began to recover BEFORE the 11/2 elections, you say that is despite the Obama-led government.

As expected, Republicans will greet this good news by saying either that its because they just got elected or that it could have been better.

Pathetic.
 
#4
#4
Where did BPV say that the economy was the dems fault? I would argue though that if you are going to spend a trillion to "save jobs" you might want a tad better employment numbers by this point.
 
#5
#5
droski said:
Where did BPV say that the economy was the dems fault? I would argue though that if you are going to spend a trillion to "save jobs" you might want a tad better employment numbers by this point.
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Please get your facts right.
 
#6
#6
lawgator1 said:
Too funny.

Fail to see the humor. This is about the 14th time since Obama's election that you've tried to pronounce the economy healed and him a genius. You have yet to come close. You aren't here.

Republicans and conservatives throughout the '08 campaign insisted that the government has nothing to do with the economy.

The congress has one helluva lot to do with the economy. The president much less so. Where has anyone, especially me, said differently?

Then when Obama won, that refrain was modified slightly to be that he could make it worse, anyway.

He could make it worse because he and the congress were carte blanche for one another. Obama's team exacerbated the problem and that has been the point since day 1.

Now that the GOP has taken the House, you open the door to the possibility that maybe the government could actually help.

I don't know about your reading skill, but the point was about business decision makers being afraid of congress or not. Has nothing to do with government as a solution provider. Gov't can't make things better, but has proven over and over that it has the ability to make them worse.

And now that it appears that the economy likely began to recover BEFORE the 11/2 elections, you say that is despite the Obama-led government.

It doesn't appear dick. That was the point. I didn't say it has anything to do with those in charge. I said business leaders prefer gridlock to socialism or unfettered conservatism. Static rules everyone can figure out. Dynamic rules from political idiots of any ilk are unmanageable.

As expected, Republicans will greet this good news by saying either that its because they just got elected or that it could have been better.

I didn't greet the news as anything but wishful thinking.

Pathetic.
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See Bold.

As to your last point, that was a decent piece of introspection, which isn't your strong suit. I'm impressed.
 
#7
#7
lawgator1 said:
Please get your facts right.
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Whether the idiots have completed the spending, they sold America $1 trillion in earmarks under the auspices of near term job production. Call it what you will, but it was the worst example of gov't waste of my lifetime.
 
#8
#8
BigPapaVol said:
Whether the idiots have completed the spending, they sold America $1 trillion in earmarks under the auspices of near term job production. Call it what you will, but it was the worst example of gov't waste of my lifetime.
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No, no, it all pales in comparison to the waste of the Iraq War.
 
#10
#10
BigPapaVol said:
Whether the idiots have completed the spending, they sold America $1 trillion in earmarks under the auspices of near term job production. Call it what you will, but it was the worst example of gov't waste of my lifetime.
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The war on poverty wins that contest by a landslide.
 
#13
#13
BigPapaVol said:
good point. Nevermind. List is long and inglorious.
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Don't forget all those loans made under TARP that, oh wait a second, were begun by Bush and continued under Obama that saved the world economy from total ruin and also most of which has been paid back.

This is the thing about absolutist fiscal conservatives. Whenver it suits them they insist on oversimplifying the national and world economies into the functional equivalent of a grocery store and the national federal budget into the same thing as a household budget.

And now that little whiny nimrod onCNBC who does nothing other than ballyhoo the end of all government as a solution ot the world's economic problems this morning did everything he could to misdriect viewers away from the favorable effects of government policy on short and long term economic growth.

Its like these people have been living in a shed or something and just repeatedly beaten until they auto-say the mindless party line.
 
#14
#14
lawgator1 said:
Don't forget all those loans made under TARP that, oh wait a second, were begun by Bush and continued under Obama that saved the world economy from total ruin and also most of which has been paid back.

Don't understand this point. Loans were made, salvaged failing banking arena and have been paid back. Obama stayed out of the way except the dumbass move to use it at GM, which will be one of the very, very few companies to lose money for the TARP program.

This is the thing about absolutist fiscal conservatives. Whenver it suits them they insist on oversimplifying the national and world economies into the functional equivalent of a grocery store and the national federal budget into the same thing as a household budget.

The problem with people who don't know dick about economics is that they assume that it doesn't eventually transition back to the basics of budget management.

And now that little whiny nimrod onCNBC who does nothing other than ballyhoo the end of all government as a solution ot the world's economic problems this morning did everything he could to misdriect viewers away from the favorable effects of government policy on short and long term economic growth.

No idea what you were saying or what the point might be if I did know.

Its like these people have been living in a shed or something and just repeatedly beaten until they auto-say the mindless party line.
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Don't understand the final point. Gov't spending should be viewed as the enemy always. This way, our approach would be guarded and we would leave escape hatches. The sticky nature of gov't spending is the piece that dooms it to catastrophe.
 
#15
#15
lawgator1 said:
And now that little whiny nimrod onCNBC who does nothing other than ballyhoo the end of all government as a solution ot the world's economic problems this morning did everything he could to misdriect viewers away from the favorable effects of government policy on short and long term economic growth.
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i have no idea what you are talking about and i am forced to watch cnbc all day. and let's face it the fed throwing trillions into the market has NOTHING to do with barrack obama.
 
#16
#16
droski said:
i have no idea what you are talking about and i am forced to watch cnbc all day. and let's face it the fed throwing trillions into the market has NOTHING to do with barrack obama.
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I am confused. Reading other posts by you and BPV it appears that you blame Obama for negative effects of the fed injecting so much money into the economy but then you say he gets no credit for the benefits of the same thing.
 
#17
#17
lawgator1 said:
I am confused. Reading other posts by you and BPV it appears that you blame Obama for negative effects of the fed injecting so much money into the economy but then you say he gets no credit for the benefits of the same thing.
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I'm not blaming Obama. I'm blaming a socialistic approach from our entire federal government as poor for the psyche of the business world. I'm blaming a system that has finally seen the size of the free money for votes crowd overwhelm those providing the free money. Having all legislative and executive in the hands of like minded folks has proven disastrous, especially in an era of votebuying. Without some offset to groupthink, we all lose. Might not have been true several decades ago, but is absolutely true today.
 
#18
#18
BigPapaVol said:
Don't understand the final point. Gov't spending should be viewed as the enemy always. This way, our approach would be guarded and we would leave escape hatches. The sticky nature of gov't spending is the piece that dooms it to catastrophe.
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The final point is easily understood. Just review past LG posts for clarity.
 
#19
#19
lawgator1 said:
I am confused. Reading other posts by you and BPV it appears that you blame Obama for negative effects of the fed injecting so much money into the economy but then you say he gets no credit for the benefits of the same thing.
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huh? you do realize the fed is not controlled by obama correct? it is an
independent entity and bernake was a bush appointment. you obviousy haven't been reading gsvols posts. he complains about the fed's indepenence constantly.
 
#20
#20
droski said:
huh? you do realize the fed is not controlled by obama correct? it is an
independent entity and bernake was a bush appointment. you obviousy haven't been reading gsvols posts. he complains about the fed's indepenence constantly.
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Hell, I've never even talked about the Fed. I think he's trying to tie the Stimulus disaster to the Fed, which is absurd. The TARP program can probably be linked to the FED to some degree, but the stimulus abortion can't. It has nothing to do with FED pumping. Maybe he's just confused. Pottery wheel can do that to a brother.
 
#21
#21
I often feel like I should know more about the economy... But then I read through some of the comments in these threads and realize knowing a little about the economy is pretty good compared to the many, many people who know nothing at all.
 
#22
#22
lawgator1 said:
Too funny.

Republicans and conservatives throughout the '08 campaign insisted that the government has nothing to do with the economy.
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No. By and large we say that most gov't action has a negative impact on the economy.

Markets like either changes toward de-regulation, tax cuts, and other pro market moves. They specifically DON'T like what Obama has done for two years. Absent a move in a positive direction, markets like gridlock in gov't.
Then when Obama won, that refrain was modified slightly to be that he could make it worse, anyway.
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No. That was not a change. Maybe you just heard it.

Now that the GOP has taken the House, you open the door to the possibility that maybe the government could actually help.
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Yes. If they stop Obamacare, protect the tax cuts or expand them, reign in the new complexity to financial regs that the Dems added, bring some control to spending excesses,... it will help the economy. In fact, this election may have saved Obama from himself.

And now that it appears that the economy likely began to recover BEFORE the 11/2 elections, you say that is despite the Obama-led government.
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It did start to recover but in spite of what Obama and the Dems did... not because of it. This has been the most anemic recover from a recession in a long time... maybe ever. It has been that way SPECIFICALLY because businesses do not trust Obama and liberals with tax and regulatory policy.

As expected, Republicans will greet this good news by saying either that its because they just got elected or that it could have been better.

Pathetic.
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If the markets read this victory as a return to "gridlock" then it WILL be because they got elected.

You really don't know anything about economics, do you?

Have you ever seen a P&L much less run a business or significant portion of one?

It really flies right over your head that taxes are nothing more than an additional cost for businesses. When costs go up there are limited options for businesses- raise prices, absorb the costs, cut costs elsewhere (like raises and benefits), go out of business, etc. There is ALWAYS a negative impact on employment and business activity when taxes go up or threaten to go up.

Worse yet for our current situation, high taxes are a disincentive to expansion and hiring. All profit is made on the margin and all expansions or start ups tend to have very unstable if not non-existent margins. If that incremental income for a business is going to be taxed at a higher rate more then that could well be the difference between success and failure. NOT worth the risk.
 
#24
#24
IPorange said:
I often feel like I should know more about the economy... But then I read through some of the comments in these threads and realize knowing a little about the economy is pretty good compared to LG who knows nothing at all except what he hears on MSNBC/CNN.
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fyp
 
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