Elbow shots = better offense?

#1

NCOrange

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#1
To preface, I'm not referencing any analytic spreadsheets, just an observation.

Earlier in the year when we were struggling offensively, it seemed to me that the defensive scout on us was to hedge hard on the wings to deny ball rotation and playing tight on our guards. The front court scout was to collapse at the rim, and not worry about coming out to the elbow; basically wall the rim if there is penetration or to double "backing in" attempts. This created really tight openings to get off the three and a crowded lane for a rim 2. Unfortunately, our personnel is not good for back to the basket offense (Grant Williams is not walking through the door), though Fulky can be effective IF he uses his quickness in these sets. So what we saw earlier from the offense is rushed/offbalance/crowded 3's and front court "backdown" offense which ended up being fadeaway 10 footers or turnovers.

What annoyed me is that the elbows were there for the taking, but we seemed to ignore the space unless we were trying to drive past for rim 2s. Not laying blame on the coaches or players, the elbow just wasn't being used. When we get into these scoring funks, I would take a wide open elbow 12 footer just to get the lid off of the basket and give you some confidence.

I understand analytics supports this type of offense (rim 2s/3pt attempts), but analytics doesn't measure offense flow, movement, spacing, timing and defense reaction. Have you noticed recently that that our players are taking open shots or distributing assists at the elbow/midrange? This collapses the defense (both guards and bigs) to the middle and frees up the baseline AND the 3pt line. The last few games the ball movement is much better, which I believe is due to defenses trying to prevent elbow penetration. The small lineup is particularly good once they get into this area; an elbow shot/floater, dishing to a cutter on the baseline, or kickout for an open 3. In essence, guard penetration to the elbow creates the similar spacing as the inside/out offense we saw in 2018/2019. A dominant big collapses the defense, a guard can do the same thing at the free throw line.

Three other benefits of elbow penetration: 1) if a big tries to come out defend the elbow, a quick guard will go past the big for a rim 2 on the weakside post or dish to a cutter. 2) An attempted assist/shot at the elbow is having one of your guards already in rebounding position. 3) Playing fast and getting to the elbow really fouls up defensive spacing; this is where you can get wide open threes. This happened on the last shot of the Texas game (missed but wide open).

I still see times where we hold the ball when defense hedge out at the wings, but this is getting fewer and fewer as our guys are starting to recognize penetrating to the elbow creates spacing.

As frustrating as this team was to watch a month ago, the midrange/elbow penetration makes this offense a thing of beauty. I would like to see 3 or 4 more midrange baseline/elbow/free throw line shots to get better defense spacing and open up the 3 point line and rim 2s.

NCOrange
 
#2
#2
This is a great observation. Barnes really overcommitted to ball reversal at the arc game, ball screens, and cuts to get threes early in the year. Driving guards into help, and driving to midrange elbow was overlooked. Lately both aspects have improved. JJJ drives to make the wing and a big cover, and we’re curling high to get the 10-15 jumper. Both can really change our productivity, and hopefully will give us more open threes too.
 
#3
#3
Excellent discussion. Basketball players are so used to practicing at the distance of FT shots, it makes sense to think they'd make a high percentage of jumpers from the line or the elbows.
 
#4
#4
A lot of this has to do with our over-reliance most of the season on our guards to score from three or off the bounce. Olivier was the one post player that could utilize his mid-range jumper which was successful quite a bit. Fulky tends to be better with his turnaround, high release jumper with his back to the basket. This is where Jonas Aidoo might be able to help us in the middle if he can stretch the defense a little with his ability to knock down shots from mid-range. It makes easier on the defense when they know shots come from 1 of 2 places (three pointer or 2’s at the rim).
 
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#5
#5
To preface, I'm not referencing any analytic spreadsheets, just an observation.

Earlier in the year when we were struggling offensively, it seemed to me that the defensive scout on us was to hedge hard on the wings to deny ball rotation and playing tight on our guards. The front court scout was to collapse at the rim, and not worry about coming out to the elbow; basically wall the rim if there is penetration or to double "backing in" attempts. This created really tight openings to get off the three and a crowded lane for a rim 2. Unfortunately, our personnel is not good for back to the basket offense (Grant Williams is not walking through the door), though Fulky can be effective IF he uses his quickness in these sets. So what we saw earlier from the offense is rushed/offbalance/crowded 3's and front court "backdown" offense which ended up being fadeaway 10 footers or turnovers.

What annoyed me is that the elbows were there for the taking, but we seemed to ignore the space unless we were trying to drive past for rim 2s. Not laying blame on the coaches or players, the elbow just wasn't being used. When we get into these scoring funks, I would take a wide open elbow 12 footer just to get the lid off of the basket and give you some confidence.

I understand analytics supports this type of offense (rim 2s/3pt attempts), but analytics doesn't measure offense flow, movement, spacing, timing and defense reaction. Have you noticed recently that that our players are taking open shots or distributing assists at the elbow/midrange? This collapses the defense (both guards and bigs) to the middle and frees up the baseline AND the 3pt line. The last few games the ball movement is much better, which I believe is due to defenses trying to prevent elbow penetration. The small lineup is particularly good once they get into this area; an elbow shot/floater, dishing to a cutter on the baseline, or kickout for an open 3. In essence, guard penetration to the elbow creates the similar spacing as the inside/out offense we saw in 2018/2019. A dominant big collapses the defense, a guard can do the same thing at the free throw line.

Three other benefits of elbow penetration: 1) if a big tries to come out defend the elbow, a quick guard will go past the big for a rim 2 on the weakside post or dish to a cutter. 2) An attempted assist/shot at the elbow is having one of your guards already in rebounding position. 3) Playing fast and getting to the elbow really fouls up defensive spacing; this is where you can get wide open threes. This happened on the last shot of the Texas game (missed but wide open).

I still see times where we hold the ball when defense hedge out at the wings, but this is getting fewer and fewer as our guys are starting to recognize penetrating to the elbow creates spacing.

As frustrating as this team was to watch a month ago, the midrange/elbow penetration makes this offense a thing of beauty. I would like to see 3 or 4 more midrange baseline/elbow/free throw line shots to get better defense spacing and open up the 3 point line and rim 2s.

NCOrange
When you said "elbows", I immediately thought hell yeah. My mind went to Bill Laimbeer and how much I'd love to see a guy like that in orange. Plavi is a start, but we need some down and dirty on our team.
 
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#6
#6
A lot of this has to do with our over-reliance most of the season on our guards to score from three or off the bounce. Olivier was the one post player that could utilize his mid-range jumper which was successful quite a bit. Fulky tends to be better with his turnaround, high release jumper with his back to the basket. This is where Jonas Aidoo might be able to help us in the middle if he can stretch the defense a little with his ability to knock down shots from mid-range. It makes easier on the defense when they know shots come from 1 of 2 places (three pointer or 2’s at the rim).
BHH has hit a couple of those the last couple games as well. Another reason that splitting plav/fulk makes so much sense. Gives the back to the basket guy and cutters more room to operate if the d has to respect the other big taking that shot. It’s too bad neither of those freshmen are much for facilitating out of that spot.
 
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#7
#7
I know what the analytics say, but at some point you’ve got to realize it’s a good idea to use the mid-range areas of the court. When a defense feels they only have to protect at the rim and deep to win, you lose your edge.
 
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