EPA v Constitution

[RespectTradition]

Why do we let this crap continue? Can anyone show me constitutional authority for the EPAs existence?

The EPA vs. the Constitution - Reason Magazine


excerpt:

The case started four years ago when a married couple named Mike and Chantell Sackett received an EPA compliance order instructing them to stop construction on what was supposed to be their dream home near Priest Lake, Idaho. The government claimed their .63-acre lot was a federally-protected wetland, but that was news to the Sacketts, who had procured all the necessary local permits. Their lot, which is bordered by two roads and several other residential lots, was in fact zoned for residential use.

The Sacketts contend that the compliance order was issued erroneously and they would like the opportunity to make their case in court. Yet according to the terms of the Clean Water Act, they may not challenge the order until the EPA first seeks judicial enforcement of it, a process that could take years. In the meantime, the Sacketts risk $32,500 in fines per day if they fail to comply. And complying doesn’t just mean they have to stop building; they must also return the lot to its original condition at their own expense.

Moreover, if they did eventually prevail under the current law, the Sacketts would then need to start construction all over again. By that point they would have paid all of the necessary compliance costs plus double many of their original building expenses. And who knows how much time would have been lost. Where’s the due process in that? The Sacketts understandably want the right to challenge the government’s actions now, not after it’s become too late or too expensive for them to put their property to its intended use.

For its part, the EPA argues that old-fashioned judicial review would simply get in the way. As the agency states in the brief it submitted to the Supreme Court, “A rule that broadly authorized immediate judicial review of such agency communications would ultimately disserve the interests of both the government and regulated parties, by discouraging interactive processes that can obviate the need for judicial action.”

Of course, the whole point of due process is that people sometimes do have “the need for judicial action” against overreaching government officials. Why should those people have to give up that right to the EPA? More to the point, why should the Supreme Court allow it to happen?

 

[VOLatile]

Can you show me where it's Constitutionally legal for companies to pollute public systems?


*I didn't read your article, just the headline and your question.

 

[VOLatile]

After reading what you posted, it does sound like an incredibly ridiculous overreach of power.

 

[RespectTradition]

Can you show me where it's Constitutionally legal for companies to pollute public systems?


*I didn't read your article, just the headline and your question.

9th and 10th amendments give all authority not expressly given to the feds to the states and the people, including companies/corporations which are just people. The constitution does not exist to limit what you or I can do, it exists to limit what government can do.

As to this case, it is a bunch of crap isn't it?

 

[volinbham]

9th and 10th amendments give all authority not expressly given to the feds to the states and the people, including companies/corporations which are just people. The constitution does not exist to limit what you or I can do, it exists to limit what government can do.

As to this case, it is a bunch of crap isn't it?

Too many people don't recognize that

 

[n_huffhines]

Can you show me where it's Constitutionally legal for companies to pollute public systems?


*I didn't read your article, just the headline and your question.

The constitution creates a boundary for government, not individuals.

 

[theFallGuy]

Does anyone think the EPA is in the business of stopping pollution? I mean really, show me one single miniscule piece of evidence that shows having the EPA in power has actually caused pollution to decrease at all.

 

[volinbham]

Does anyone think the EPA is in the business of stopping pollution? I mean really, show me one single miniscule piece of evidence that shows having the EPA in power has actually caused pollution to decrease at all.

Well, there are fewer rivers that are regularly on fire...

 

[theFallGuy]

The EPA is more like the gestapo stopping businesses from operating.

My father is in the home building / construction / concerete business. He tells me horror stories of all the paper work, rules, and regulations construction has to go through in order to work on a project. Having to get documents and verification from the EPA because you are building something near a stream that is 2 feet wide. Those types of actions kill small business which create most of the jobs in this country.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Does anyone think the EPA is in the business of stopping pollution? I mean really, show me one single miniscule piece of evidence that shows having the EPA in power has actually caused pollution to decrease at all.

Feel free to come visit me. I will be ecstatic to show you show you what happens when there isn't an agency like the EPA looking out for the environment. Don't get me wrong, the EPA get rambunctious from time to time, but they really do one hell of a job. I once thought like you. Being in a third world communist country will open your eyes to the good deeds of the EPA real quick.

 

[theFallGuy]

Feel free to come visit me. I will be ecstatic to show you show you what happens when there isn't an agency like the EPA looking out for the environment. Don't get me wrong, the EPA get rambunctious from time to time, but they really do one hell of a job. I once thought like you. Being in a third world communist country will open your eyes to the good deeds of the EPA real quick.

The EPA agency that just raided the Gibson guitar factory with automatic weapons drawn here in downtown Memphis because they "might" have had exotic wood on site? That EPA agency?

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

Th EPA is housed in a massive office building in DC. The building is bigger than the Justice Dept and the IRS. You drive by it on a Friday night and all types of lights are on. Which is funny b/c by 4:59 pm on a Friday, every chair in that place is spinning. It just makes you wonder, wth are the 10s of thousands who work there doing besides collecting ridiculous benefits?

 

[therealUT]

Diculous again...?!?!

 

[theFallGuy]

Th EPA is housed in a massive office building in DC. The building is bigger than the Justice Dept and the IRS. You drive by it on a Friday night and all types of lights are on. Which is funny b/c by 4:59 pm on a Friday, every chair in that place is spinning. It just makes you wonder, wth are the 10s of thousands who work there doing besides collecting rediculous benefits?

There at home throwing their trash in the yard and not recycling.

lol:

 

[PKT_VOL]

The EPA agency that just raided the Gibson guitar factory with automatic weapons drawn here in downtown Memphis because they "might" have had exotic wood on site? That EPA agency?

Yep. That EPA. Like I said, they can be overzealous at times. No doubt about it. Embarrassingly so. But to dismiss their overall positive impact on our country is foolish. I understand it is easy to do when living in the United States. I did. A little global perspective will change your opinion.

 

[therealUT]

Yep. That EPA. Like I said, they can be overzealous at times. No doubt about it. Embarrassingly so. But to dismiss their overall positive impact on our country is foolish. I understand it is easy to do when living in the United States. I did. A little global perspective will change your opinion.

I was in India and there definitely were sanitation problems; however, I would rather have that than the EPA.

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

Did apple hire someone from the Department of Education? Because my stupid autocorrect keeps forcing me to spell r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s with an E

 

[therealUT]

Did apple hire someone from the Department of Education? Because my stupid autocorrect keeps forcing me to spell r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s with an E

Quality Control went out the window when Steve Jobs croaked.

 

[PKT_VOL]

I was in India and there definitely were sanitation problems; however, I would rather have that than the EPA.

I can't attest to how India was for you, what parts you visited, or what your experience was but I can say that I have done a 180 on my EPA stance since being in this country. Don't get me wrong, I don't support a lot of what they do and believe they should be modified in a big way. However, they really do a lot of good that we simply take for granted.

 

[therealUT]

I can't attest to how India was for you, what parts you visited, or what your experience was but I can say that I have done a 180 on my EPA stance since being in this country. Don't get me wrong, I don't support a lot of what they do and believe they should be modified in a big way. However, they really do a lot of good that we simply take for granted.

I was in Andhra Pradesh, south of Hyderabad, and in Chennai.

If Vietnam is worse off, do you think some of that might be accounted for in the fact that the Vietnamese were at war for over thirty years, that only ended in the mid-70s?

 

[RespectTradition]

I was in Andhra Pradesh, south of Hyderabad, and in Chennai.

If Vietnam is worse off, do you think some of that might be accounted for in the fact that the Vietnamese were at war for over thirty years, that only ended in the mid-70s?

Or that since they are not free, and the government runs so much, that the problem is government.

Also, when private parties own property, they take care of it. Also, when private parties face civil suits for destroying property belonging to others, pollution is not a real problem.

 

[PKT_VOL]

I was in Andhra Pradesh, south of Hyderabad, and in Chennai.

If Vietnam is worse off, do you think some of that might be accounted for in the fact that the Vietnamese were at war for over thirty years, that only ended in the mid-70s?

How was is it? You enjoy your experience? And not just in relation to this thread.

I have no idea how it compares to India. From what I have seen, the Vietnam War is not responsible for filth they wallow in over here. It is very much a cultural thing. They honestly just don't see a problem trashing their own property, let alone country. It really is quite tragic because this is truly a beautiful country.

 

[volinbham]

Yep. That EPA. Like I said, they can be overzealous at times. No doubt about it. Embarrassingly so. But to dismiss their overall positive impact on our country is foolish. I understand it is easy to do when living in the United States. I did. A little global perspective will change your opinion.

Yep. Things were pretty bad in the 70s. We've definitely made progress but like any govt agency - they are always on the look out for more to do.

 

[therealUT]

How was is it? You enjoy your experience? And not just in relation to this thread.

I have no idea how it compares to India. From what I have seen, the Vietnam War is not responsible for filth they wallow in over here. It is very much a cultural thing. They honestly just don't see a problem trashing their own property, let alone country. It really is quite tragic because this is truly a beautiful country.

I loved my time in India. My Fiance and I spent almost four months living with a family in Porumamilla (a tiny village out in the middle of nowhere). I taught some English at the school, my Fiance conducted research for her Master's Thesis, and we also helped construct an orphanage. The family we stayed with was one of the few Christian families in the area (they were Catholic); their driver was a Muslim; and, the village was almost an even split between Hindu and Muslim (and all of them got along very well with each other). Culturally, everyone saw themselves as Indian first and then whatever creed they observed second.

The food was amazing and every weekend we took trips to local areas of interest with the family and their friends. We saw a lot of temples, ruins, and attractions that most tourists, especially Western tourists, to India never see.

Trash was everywhere and nobody seemed to mind. The pigs constantly gnawed at the refuse. The only potable water came from water sanitation sites in large water bottles. The chai and the coffee, made from buffalo milk, were a delight.

Just like the driving, the constant sight of refuse was only bothersome for the first week or so; after that, we were adjusted to it and it did not bother us at all (also, for me, it was not nearly as bad as Iraq).

We are actually heading back this summer for the 'Grand Opening' of the orphanage and I am very much looking forward to reuniting with the friends I made there.

 

[PKT_VOL]

I loved my time in India. My Fiance and I spent almost four months living with a family in Porumamilla (a tiny village out in the middle of nowhere). I taught some English at the school, my Fiance conducted research for her Master's Thesis, and we also helped construct an orphanage. The family we stayed with was one of the few Christian families in the area (they were Catholic); their driver was a Muslim; and, the village was almost an even split between Hindu and Muslim (and all of them got along very well with each other). Culturally, everyone saw themselves as Indian first and then whatever creed they observed second.

The food was amazing and every weekend we took trips to local areas of interest with the family and their friends. We saw a lot of temples, ruins, and attractions that most tourists, especially Western tourists, to India never see.

Trash was everywhere and nobody seemed to mind. The pigs constantly gnawed at the refuse. The only potable water came from water sanitation sites in large water bottles. The chai and the coffee, made from buffalo milk, were a delight.

Just like the driving, the constant sight of refuse was only bothersome for the first week or so; after that, we were adjusted to it and it did not bother us at all (also, for me, it was not nearly as bad as Iraq).

We are actually heading back this summer for the 'Grand Opening' of the orphanage and I am very much looking forward to reuniting with the friends I made there.

That sounds like the quite the experience. I am jealous. I wish I could spend a couple months over in India. If you don't mind me asking, what was the nature of your fiance's research?

My experience has been slightly different. I am in a large city vs being in a small rural town. I am here for close to a year. I made the trip over with my best friend who is Vietnamese. His immediate family (including himself) was born in Saigon, then emigrated from Vietnam to the US. He knows Vietnamese which makes learning the culture and costumes a lot easier and more enjoyable. We live with his family. Luckily, they are comparatively well-off so I am able to have internet (I use that term loosely).

We both teach English as a way to support ourselves and our endeavors. We take "weekend" trips fairly often to various places within a day's transportation of HCMC. I will say, the human ingenuity of the Cu Chi Tunnels blew me away a couple weeks ago.

We are also involved with an orphanage. It is out in the middle of nowhere. South of Pleiku. It is run by a friar for the indigenous mountain orphans of Vietnam and Laos. I can not express how poor these kids are or their inadequacy of their living conditions. It is the most humbling life experience I will ever have.

As with you in India, the food over here is simply fantastic. It is very healthy and low in calories compared to the United States. I am the healthiest I have ever been.

Like India, they throw their trash on the ground. It is filthy. The killer for me is their defecation of their own property. Unlike the country where there is plenty of space to do your business, the city is wall to wall with people. About every couple weeks I see a parent teach their child to defecate on the sidewalk in front of their house. It is appalling. Of course it rains a lot here so the streams and storm drains are nothing but fresh sewage which floods every time it rains (which is every day). We affectionately refer to it as "sewage feet."