Excuses....

[Sudden Impact]

Maybe I did, certain types yes. I often think most are trolls anyway. Volnation can be a vicious cycle of life.

After the coaching search, the Gruden hype, the Strong fiasco, the Grundy thread, the Dooley experience, Clawson experiment, kiffin departure, The highly criticized Chavis 3rd and long, Monte also, with uncle Ed, the Fulmer power train, the Kippy Brown plane trip, Baggets departure, Sal's defense, Sirmon and Wilcox, Thompson's departure and the list goes on and on.

No wonder Vol fans are confused. Sad but true. Not many coaches with a strong coaching resume IQ would even taken this venture on. To much instability. We were lucky to get Jones. 3rd choice.

We have meet our enemy and it is us. Add to it contractual agreements, and a drain on the financial coffers of the AD by the Administration along with supporters holding back. I understand why the fan base questions everything.

Under the circumstances, CBJ was the best hire with this staff that was willing to come in and stabilize the program and to transition it back into prominence. No coach has made the effort that he has to bring in former player like him. No coach has recruited like him in the forefront nor has he taken their commits for granted in the maintenance of their recruitment. TBD on NSD and with the EE.

Edit: Jay Graham's departure, Tee Martins rejection, Pittman's departure, Dooley bringing Terry Joseph to Coach DBS, Dooley's recruiting, face it nobody wanted Cut but he may have been a decent holdover until we found some else. OL coach I missed, plus the NCAA breathing down our necks.

This program is more transparent. Dooley covered up his issues with jokes, limited access and shower hygiene. Kiffin covered his with lies, flower girls, head games and partying. All talk totally and overly impressed with himself.

 

[patrick]

Not bad....... ^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[SAPPER 5]

I agree with everything in your original post except I don't think it's fair to tell fans that are critical (not the ones calling for his job) to burn their orange. What we say on this and other message boards have little to no affect on his ability to succeed. I've said all along Butch is a relative puppy when it comes to coaching experience. He probably needed a few more years at a mid major school before taking on something like TN in a rebuilding stage. He's is learning on the job.

Butch is saying all the right things, he's recruiting like a mad man. Can/will he succeed here? Who knows. The ones that are 100% sure that we'll be competing for conference championships and the ones that doubt CBJ even the slightest are idiot negavols are just as delusional as the ones call for his job now.

Edit: Before the season, I stated I thought a successful season was one where we would beat the teams we were favored to beat, upset a team we were not supposed to beat and be competitive in the losses. We've done that except be competitive in the losses for the most part.

Correct...but in losses vs. #1,2 and 9, its really difficult to be competitive with our 2-deep...not sure anyone expected Mizzou to be what they've turned out to be this year...or Auburn, for that matter...it hurts, but we are where most of us thought we'd be.

 

[Gen.Neyland]

I was wondering when you would show up and post.

Critique all you desire not my problem nor will it be. Could be yours down the road but what have you really stated that has not already been already addressed by others or hashed out 100 times or more on this board.

You have listed the scores and all that is true. You have addressed the games with your opinions and that is your right.

You have chosen not to turn in you Vol card and that is your choice nor did I ask you to do so. The fact you had to address it makes me question why would you.

At this time, after looking at the results of the last 7 years not just the Dooley years, it is hard to argue that CBJ and staff at this time were not the best choice to get us out of this mess.

Believe what you want but you like I are doing so based on 10 months of work. Be as critically foolish as you desire, but know that if this recruiting class holds and we finish 6-6 or better this year with a bowl appearance. That alone is progress.

Other indicators are enthusiasm, Neyland stadium rocking, players academics, players attitude, discipline, pride, Strength and conditioning, no quit attitude, recruiting work and half signed before the season started. Players challenged to raise the level. Former players reuniting with program. Signature win. Player accountability.

All in 10+months, yea I wonder why I would make such a stupid supportive statement. CBJ has embraced the traditions of the program along with the former players which created the Volunteer Football program we so desperately desire and seek.

He is building a foundation and in doing so he has done more with this program in 10 months than has been done in total in the last 6 years.

Be as critical as you need to be. Sorry you feel that way and I am so sorry it's not on your timeline. Also I hate it for you. Go follow your shinny objects and demand instant gratification and be critical of everything that does not go your way on your timeline and you will go far in life I am sure.

I don't want your Vol card just want you to give it some respect.


I am not trying to be argumentative either, you are right to early to tell but I think you are going to be pleasantly surprised. I think CBJs will be here awhile.

Could your posts be any longer?

 

[Sudden Impact]

Could your posts be any longer?

Yes they could.

Do you want me to private message you or email you my drafts?

 

[patrick]

Yes they could.

Do you want me to private message you or email you my drafts?

:lolabove:

 

[Sudden Impact]

Here's my #1 concern. What happens when we don't win enough games next year to keep the big name recruits coming? We will end up were we are now. In order for us to truly turn the corner it will take 3 amazing recruiting classes. I'm just not sure we can keep luring in those 4 and 5 stars without winning more than 6 or 7 games next year. Our schedule really beats us down every year.

If we are not adding the roof or a skylight in 4 years then we got problem.

 

[Backwards K]

There are glaring problems here that are un-coachable for the most part:

1) lack of defensive speed
2) lack of defensive depth along the defensive front
3 ) youth in the secondary ...along with lack of speed
4 ) inexperienced young WRs and TEs. These guys will be okay ..they just need time
5 ) youth and inexperience at QB. These guys will be okay too..just need time

The inexperience issues all around should be better next season . Experience issues take time. Speed cant be coached . Depth cant be invented . These issues are going to take 2 seasons. I think you will see immediate improvement next season , and massive improvement the next season.

These problems are pretty nasty problems to have playing this freaking top 10 schedule we got stuck with.

This includes way too many facts for most of the folks on this board to ever understand and/or appreciate. There a lot of good teams who would be 3-6 with UT's schedule. Vols are 4-5 and chasing 2 wins to close out the year.

Butch Jones has won at every level he has coached and he shows all of the signs of knowing what is needed to win in the SEC. Better days are coming.

 

[WB4LBJ_4_UT]

Thoughts?

I wanna go fly fishing.....

and I agree 100%

 

[soda23]

Maybe I did, certain types yes. I often think most are trolls anyway. Volnation can be a vicious cycle of life.

After the coaching search, the Gruden hype, the Strong fiasco, the Grundy thread, the Dooley experience, Clawson experiment, kiffin departure, The highly criticized Chavis 3rd and long, Monte also, with uncle Ed, the Fulmer power train, the Kippy Brown plane trip, Baggets departure, Sal's defense, Sirmon and Wilcox, Thompson's departure and the list goes on and on.

No wonder Vol fans are confused. Sad but true. Not many coaches with a strong coaching resume IQ would even taken this venture on. To much instability. We were lucky to get Jones. 3rd choice.

We have meet our enemy and it is us. Add to it contractual agreements, and a drain on the financial coffers of the AD by the Administration along with supporters holding back. I understand why the fan base questions everything.

Under the circumstances, CBJ was the best hire with this staff that was willing to come in and stabilize the program and to transition it back into prominence. No coach has made the effort that he has to bring in former player like him. No coach has recruited like him in the forefront nor has he taken their commits for granted in the maintenance of their recruitment. TBD on NSD and with the EE.

Edit: Jay Graham's departure, Tee Martins rejection, Pittman's departure, Dooley bringing Terry Joseph to Coach DBS, Dooley's recruiting, face it nobody wanted Cut but he may have been a decent holdover until we found some else. OL coach I missed, plus the NCAA breathing down our necks.

This program is more transparent. Dooley covered up his issues with jokes, limited access and shower hygiene. Kiffin covered his with lies, flower girls, head games and partying. All talk totally and overly impressed with himself.

Graham's departure was maybe a blessing in disguise . We have a glaring hole at running back . Pittman should have been kept , and that's Butch's fault unless he asked him to stay and he said no. Tee , meh maybe and maybe not , who knows.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Graham's departure was maybe a blessing in disguise . We have a glaring hole at running back . Pittman should have been kept , and that's Butch's fault unless he asked him to stay and he said no. Tee , meh maybe and maybe not , who knows.

I agree. All this said and done, you are right about Graham.

Look at the player's view and the coaching technique changes or just the differences in coach's personalities.

 

[oregonvol]

His goal is to get to a bowl this year and it will be an accomplishment with this schedule and competing in the SEC. After all, not a single media source had us in the mix for a bowl and most had us at 5-7.

I keep seeing this in recent days and I find it rather interesting. No one ever backs up these claims with any citations, so I had a look around.

Here is a table by Athlon Sports:

College Football 2013 Win Total Projections | AthlonSports.com

It shows the total wins people were projecting for each team at the outset of the season, for betting purposes. It looks like most have Tennessee at 6 wins. But, yet, I keep seeing folks on here claim that "not a single media source had us in the mix for a bowl." Well, since 6 wins would put us into a bowl, I have to wonder where you people have gotten your information? It couldn't be that you are just making it up to try to excuse the results, could it?

Here is another source. SBNation has a tabulation of where most experts expected each team to finish in their conference. On average, it looks like we were picked to finish 4-5th in the East. Now, this doesn't specifically project w/l record, but given that historically, the 4th place team in the SEC East almost always has a winning record (and quite often, the 5th place team does as well), I think it stands to reason that some of these experts probably expected us to win 6 or more games too.

In terms of just bowl projections themselves...Athlon had us in the Liberty Bowl here, Phil Steele had us in the Music City Bowl here, Chris Low on espn also had us in the Music City Bowl here


I saw in another thread, the OP claiming that no one in their right mind would have predicted 6 wins for this team heading into the season. Really? Are we so desperate for an excuse that we just have to pretend that the past doesn't exist, that it's like some fairy land we get to just make up, based on whatever we imagine to have happened?

 

[sjt18]

Don't care for them at all. I am curious and have not heard a single Excuse from CBJ mouth uttered once. Fans have but when you really think about it name one excuse that CBJ has given. Or Staff?

I read the transcripts from some recent comments. He came very close to making some indirect excuses. A reference to depth comes to mind.

Publicly name one player he has thrown under the bus.

Not really but when you say you don't have "talent" and use that as the reason for bad plays by a position group... it comes pretty close.

Name one bad event, that he has not taking the blame for to date.

Help me out. What bad event has he taken responsibility for? I think he is right to say the "team is responsible" and so on. It also bothers me a bit that he DOES NOT say that the coaches could have done a better job now and again.

I offer nothing new with one exception tha CBJ and staff are at this time the right Coach and staff to pull us out of this mess and it is going to take time to do so.

Many have offered that. Many hold it as an article of faith so dear that they explode at every notion of criticism.

I am not yet convinced they are the right ones. I like some of what they have done... and have great concern over games like this one.

If he was making excuses or throwing players under the bus or not accepting accountability or responsibility for failures, I would be the first one in line wanting to see him gone in a reasonable time.

I don't want him gone. And frankly I'd rather there be no "failures" for him to have to take or assign responsibility for... and that's not to say "losses". That IS to say underperformance.

Getting it does not meaning winning immediately. It means you have identified the problems and you are fixing them one at a time within a reasonable time and process.

How long should that take? Is it OK to have intermediate expectations because I am getting BLASTED here for suggesting that it is?

I am not making excuses for CBJ and staff, but they aren't the problem, either.

You simply cannot know that. Are they the reason UT is not and could not reasonably be considered a contender for championships this year? Absolutely not. Are they the potential difference between a five or six win team and a 7 win team?

Yes. Problems I am seeing that are being fix are as follows.

Talent level, speed, strenght, depth, attitude, offensive and defensive systems, discipline, structure, academics, recruiting, fan support, conditioning and the lists goes on and on.

That's part of the problem. But I would like to see them maximizing the talent they have NOW so we can be more assured they will maximize the talent of better rosters.

What is sad is that he has not used this as an excuse and because he plus the staff has made it so transparent publicly that the fans are using them against publicly.

Huh? He has repeatedly stated that the team lacks talent. You can decide for yourself if that is a valid reason or an excuse... but he has said it... and often.

Write the coach a letter and ask him how long will it take to make to SECCG. If you have to do that then you are not much of a fan and need to move on,

Pure... unadulterated... BS! There is nothing about having high hopes and expectations for your team that makes you a bad fan. I guess in your opinion a "good" fan just sits around for 8+ years being satisfied with 5-8 wins, right?

but your insecurity causes you to voice opinions here and in other media outlets that show how desperate you really are. Drama.

Not insecurity. Expectations. UF doesn't tolerate mediocre performance. Bama didn't. USCw didn't. LSU will not.

UT did... and that is ultimately how we got to where we are. Fulmer became mediocre and now the program is in the throes of trying to find a way up.

Some of you need to burn your UT memoribia or bury it because you are the problem and not a part of the solution because you don't get it.

So if we don't blindly assume that Jones will succeed then you have ruled we cannot be fans, right?

I personally think tolerance of low performance is far more a part of the "problem" than complaints about poorly coached games.

His goal is to get to a bowl this year and it will be an accomplishment with this schedule and competing in the SEC. After all, not a single media source had us in the mix for a bowl and most had us at 5-7.

Yeah. We've heard this excuse too.

Don't let your stupidity rule your life when it comes to your fan hood.

Yeah. Just close your eyes and believe, right? Deny any fact that makes you "stupid" enough to watch a game like the one Saturday and not be all giddy and certain about the coaches.

Your are responsible for how much koolaide you drink not CBJ, staff or players.

Drinking none. Not the pessimist kind. Not the blind optimist kind. The coaches and team stank it up Saturday night... no matter how much you don't want to see it.


I want to see UT and Jones successful as much if not more than you do... I'm simply not going to live in denial when they are not as successful as they could or should have been.

 

[sjt18]

Sorry Sudden Impact. I may have been a little "smart aleck" with you but I LOATH excuses like the ones flying around today. If people were saying, "Yeah, it was a bad game but I believe they'll get better" then maybe we can live with that. But many are trying to deny that the game was a stinker or that coaching had anything to do with it.

 

[NeylandArmy]

Thoughts?

Wall of text

 

[patrick]

I read the transcripts from some recent comments. He came very close to making some indirect excuses. A reference to depth comes to mind.

Not really but when you say you don't have "talent" and use that as the reason for bad plays by a position group... it comes pretty close.

Help me out. What bad event has he taken responsibility for? I think he is right to say the "team is responsible" and so on. It also bothers me a bit that he DOES NOT say that the coaches could have done a better job now and again.

Many have offered that. Many hold it as an article of faith so dear that they explode at every notion of criticism.

I am not yet convinced they are the right ones. I like some of what they have done... and have great concern over games like this one.

I don't want him gone. And frankly I'd rather there be no "failures" for him to have to take or assign responsibility for... and that's not to say "losses". That IS to say underperformance.

How long should that take? Is it OK to have intermediate expectations because I am getting BLASTED here for suggesting that it is?

You simply cannot know that. Are they the reason UT is not and could not reasonably be considered a contender for championships this year? Absolutely not. Are they the potential difference between a five or six win team and a 7 win team? That's part of the problem. But I would like to see them maximizing the talent they have NOW so we can be more assured they will maximize the talent of better rosters.

Huh? He has repeatedly stated that the team lacks talent. You can decide for yourself if that is a valid reason or an excuse... but he has said it... and often.

Pure... unadulterated... BS! There is nothing about having high hopes and expectations for your team that makes you a bad fan. I guess in your opinion a "good" fan just sits around for 8+ years being satisfied with 5-8 wins, right?

Not insecurity. Expectations. UF doesn't tolerate mediocre performance. Bama didn't. USCw didn't. LSU will not.

UT did... and that is ultimately how we got to where we are. Fulmer became mediocre and now the program is in the throes of trying to find a way up.

So if we don't blindly assume that Jones will succeed then you have ruled we cannot be fans, right?

I personally think tolerance of low performance is far more a part of the "problem" than complaints about poorly coached games.

Yeah. We've heard this excuse too.

Yeah. Just close your eyes and believe, right? Deny any fact that makes you "stupid" enough to watch a game like the one Saturday and not be all giddy and certain about the coaches.

Drinking none. Not the pessimist kind. Not the blind optimist kind. The coaches and team stank it up Saturday night... no matter how much you don't want to see it.


I want to see UT and Jones successful as much if not more than you do... I'm simply not going to live in denial when they are not as successful as they could or should have been.

This one million percent!

 

[golf437]

Graham's departure was maybe a blessing in disguise . We have a glaring hole at running back . Pittman should have been kept , and that's Butch's fault unless he asked him to stay and he said no. Tee , meh maybe and maybe not , who knows.

Silly.

 

[tm3]

Sorry Sudden Impact. I may have been a little "smart aleck" with you but I LOATH excuses like the ones flying around today. If people were saying, "Yeah, it was a bad game but I believe they'll get better" then maybe we can live with that. But many are trying to deny that the game was a stinker or that coaching had anything to do with it.

don't apologize for anything. you hit the nail on the head, and unlike the OP are not calling for anyone that happens to disagree with you to burn their orange because they are not a "true fan."