FAIR Tax Discussion

#1
U-T

U-T

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
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4
#1
Ashame about Paul's income tax stance

If not for that, he would have my support.
 
#2
#2
Would the fair tax have to go through a Democratic Congress? If so, then there's no chance for it.
 
#3
#3
The sad part is that the Fair Tax has a better chance of making it farther along in a Democratic Congress with a Republican President than with the current Republican President and the previous Republican Congress.
 
#4
#4
UTLCA said:
Would the fair tax have to go through a Democratic Congress? If so, then there's no chance for it.
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The fair tax would never make it through Congress of any kind

Nor should it...though I know it has a Ron Paul-esqe following
 
#5
#5
U-T said:
The fair tax would never make it through Congress of any kind

Nor should it...though I know it has a Ron Paul-esqe following
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What's your problem with the FAIR tax? I don't have high hopes for it, but I think it's a pretty neat idea.
 
#6
#6
:popcorn:

I am very interested to see a discussion on the fair tax.
 
#7
#7
I like the idea of being taxed on what I spend rather than what I earn.
 
#8
#8
GAVol said:
What's your problem with the FAIR tax? I don't have high hopes for it, but I think it's a pretty neat idea.
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Without getting into specifics (because I have so many and I tend to bore people with it :)), I think it is a fraud from top to bottom in terms of what it promises and what it actually would produce (Whether it lowering actual prices, who pays what, ending the IRS, Sales Taxes, etc...)

I like Neal Boortz and I have heard him promote it to death but I look at this quote from him as pretty much the reason why I find so many Fair-Tax people to be out of the actual loop when it comes time to put the thoughts/ideas into reality for implementation.

"I leave arriving at the numbers to the experts," he says, stretched out in back of an eight-seat charter plane bound for his next signing in Mobile, Ala. "I'm just selling the concept."
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- Link

But you know what? That is life in the Tax World. Everyone has their own opinions on what would and wouldn't work. Though I could spend 10 pages disagreeing with people on the Fair Tax, I am sure some could shoot back with 10 pages agreeing with it. Tax issues are IMO the most complicated domestic issue in the US these days. One small move can trigger so many bigger moves.
 
#9
#9
The thing that I don't get about the fair tax is how families that make about 30,000 or 35,000 don't end up being taxed at a much higher percentage of their income than families making 150,000. I know that you wouldn't be taxed on your income up to the poverty line (through the prebate)...but families that make around 35,000 are pretty much going to be spending every dime to make it...would they not be taxed on every dime then? And...families that make 150,000 could put much of that away...let it grow...and ultimately be taxed (effectively) at a much lower rate when the finally do spend it. I may be missing something....but it seems regressive (I know, I know...that fair tax is "progressive"...and I'm not an economist...but I don't fully see it).
 
#10
#10
As much as I am in favor of the idea, I think you are correct in that a lot of people just don't understand it and jump on board as a means of protesting the evils of the IRS.
 
#11
#11
GAVol said:
The regressiveness of the tax is combatted by a monthly "prebate" that everyone would receive.
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That only covers up to the poverty line I thought...I think that families above the poverty line can still spend all of their income without living it up.
 
#12
#12
U-T said:
Without getting into specifics (because I have so many and I tend to bore people with it :)), I think it is a fraud from top to bottom in terms of what it promises and what it actually would produce (Whether it lowering actual prices, who pays what, ending the IRS, Sales Taxes, etc...)

I like Neal Boortz and I have heard him promote it to death but I look at this quote from him as pretty much the reason why I find so many Fair-Tax people to be out of the actual loop when it comes time to put the thoughts/ideas into reality for implementation.

- Link

But you know what? That is life in the Tax World. Everyone has their own opinions on what would and wouldn't work. Though I could spend 10 pages disagreeing with people on the Fair Tax, I am sure some could shoot back with 10 pages agreeing with it. Tax issues are IMO the most complicated domestic issue in the US these days. One small move can trigger so many bigger moves.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say there is no such thing as a free lunch?

You raise a good point, but I do think a fair tax could be implemented with additional revenue needed for the shortfall from other means, a reduced income tax rate. If the income tax rate could be reduced to a 10% flat rate with a fair tax on purchases it would be an improvement IMO.
 
#13
#13
TennTradition said:
That only covers up to the poverty line I thought...I think that families above the poverty line can still spend all of their income without living it up.
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I may not be understanding what you are saying . . . but doesn't it follow that as long as necessities aren't taxed and the tax is based on consumption that people with more money are naturally going to consume more and pay more tax?
 
#14
#14
GAVol said:
I may not be understanding what you are saying . . . but doesn't it follow that as long as necessities aren't taxed and the tax is based on consumption that people with more money are naturally going to consume more and pay more tax?
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To some extent it does...but it gets back to how much your disposable income is affected. I suppose that if the poverty line were adjusted by region, and were a true indicator of what it took to make ends meet, then only being taxed above that would make some sense. But...I don't think that is the case. Another problem that I have is that it would seem a family making around 35,000 would be taxed on every dime they make at the 23% (if that is the rate) ... on 35,000 minus the poverty line. The family making 200,000 (let's say)...may only spend 100,000 of that....so they are taxed on 100,000 minus the poverty line. Furthermore, they have another 100,000 that they can invest ... allow it to grow. The growth on that 100,000 could effectively be used to offset the fair tax on the original 100,000 they spent as well as the 100,000 they will eventually spend that they had originally invested.

It just seems to me that wealthy individuals could easily be taxed (effectively) for a much smaller amount ... let alone percentage...when all is said than done than someone who has to spend all of their income.

I will admit that I don't know what all is taxed under the Fair Tax...so maybe it isn't reasonable to assume that a family making 40,000 or so would be taxed on all of it. But, this is just a scenario that has been in the back of my head ..... and it makes me question how fair the fair tax is ultimately. Maybe I'm making use of some faulty logic or something...but it just seems weird to me.
 
#15
#15
MG1968 said:
I like the idea of being taxed on what I spend rather than what I earn.
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The way our government spends money, the implementation of the fair tax deal would have a disasterous effect on the country's infastructure.
 
#17
#17
MG1968 said:
I like the idea of being taxed on what I spend rather than what I earn.
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I like the idea of the government only collecting enough taxes for what is necessary. Not saying we're going to tax "this much" and then finding ways to spend it.
 
#18
#18
As someone who will not be making much more than 22-25k a year for (probably) another 4 years, I absolutely hate the fair tax idea. Most of what I earn goes right back out, I would immediate feel a higher tax burden. Especially in Tennessee where I would be taxed somewhere in the neighborhood of 32 cents on the dollar.
 
#22
#22
The issue I have with it is that it only taxes goods as they initially come out into the market. Second hand sales are not included. This means you create a culture of "Buy Used". Buying used or second hand goods means a slowing down on production of new goods thus killing factory output. It has a trickle down (or up depending on perspective) to negatively affect the economy. If I can avoid paying taxes on a car, I'd prefer buying a used one. Same goes for everything else.
 
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