From our Democrat controlled US Senate

#1

Rasputin_Vol

"Slava Ukraina"
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#1
.: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page :.

[FONT=times new roman,times][FONT=times new roman,times]
[FONT=times new roman,times]The report counters the claims made by the promoters of man-made global warming fears that the number of skeptical scientists is dwindling.[/FONT]
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[FONT=times new roman,times]A peer-reviewed study by a team of scientists found that "warming is naturally caused and shows no human influence." [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]– Another November 2007 peer-reviewed study in the journal Physical Geography found “Long-term climate change is driven by solar insolation changes.”[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times] These recent studies were in addition to the abundance of peer-reviewed studies earlier in 2007. - See "New Peer-Reviewed Scientific Studies Chill Global Warming Fears".[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]With this new report of profiling 400 skeptical scientists, the world can finally hear the voices of the “silent majority” of scientists.[/FONT]
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#2
#2
I don't see how the fact that the Democrats control the Senate (and chair this committee) has anything to do with this report. This report is from the MINORITY....Sen. Inhoffe called man-made global warming "the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the American people." It hardly surprises me that his office would release this report.
 
#3
#3
Actually the full committee released the report. RV just lead you to the minority portion of the report. Not paying attention to detail is the reason Gore continues to get away with HIGW BS.
 
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TennTradition: What's the scoop on the recent study by Douglass et al that questions the causes of GW? I believe it's in the International Journal of Climatology.
 
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Actually the full committee released the report. RV just lead you to the minority portion of the report. Not paying attention to detail is the reason Gore continues to get away with HIGW BS.

I don't think that is an accurate assessment. The introduction says "The new report issued by the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee’s office of the GOP Ranking Member details the views of the scientists, the overwhelming majority of whom spoke out in 2007."

Futhermore, on the committee webpage, it introduces the document and says (minority) after it.

I believe this is a minority report.
 
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#7
TennTradition: What's the scoop on the recent study by Douglass et al that questions the causes of GW? I believe it's in the International Journal of Climatology.

I'll have to check that out. I've been trying to get a paper out and get through finals...so I've haven't been doing any "non-essential" reading. But, I'm on break now, so I'll try to take a look at this.
 
#8
#8
TennTradition: What's the scoop on the recent study by Douglass et al that questions the causes of GW? I believe it's in the International Journal of Climatology.


Is this an older study? Also, is it Douglas, not Douglass? I couldn't find anything recent, and found very little under the name Douglass, but several under Douglas.

If you can get me a year and verify the journal, I would like to read the article and see what I think of it.
 
#9
#9
Traditionally a committee would release a report approved by the committee as a majority. Since we're in a bitterly partisan period you see the minority releasing their own reports. Some times they will cover the same info but just have their own spin to it.
 
#10
#10
Traditionally a committee would release a report approved by the committee as a majority. Since we're in a bitterly partisan period you see the minority releasing their own reports. Some times they will cover the same info but just have their own spin to it.

That makes sense. I could also see this happening much more regurlarly in the house than the Senate. That may not be an accurate assesment, but it seems the Senate works harder for consensus. (I probably have a lot of mispellings in my posts right now...I'm using my in-laws' computer, so no firefox - just explorer ... forgive me in advance :) ).
 
#11
#11
Is this an older study? Also, is it Douglas, not Douglass? I couldn't find anything recent, and found very little under the name Douglass, but several under Douglas.

If you can get me a year and verify the journal, I would like to read the article and see what I think of it.

It's Douglass with 2 s's. Other authors are Christy, Pearson and Singer.

It's not in print yet but appears on the METS site under the journal link.

Here's a link that has a link to the PDF. I've seen this work both heralded as showing GHG models are incorrect and others that trash the study.

New Study Increases Concerns About Climate Model Reliability

The Reference Frame: Douglass, Christy, Pearson, Singer
 
#12
#12
I don't think that is an accurate assessment. The introduction says "The new report issued by the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee’s office of the GOP Ranking Member details the views of the scientists, the overwhelming majority of whom spoke out in 2007."

Futhermore, on the committee webpage, it introduces the document and says (minority) after it.

I believe this is a minority report.

Use this as your starting point.

.: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Welcome :.

It is the committee report. However, the majority and minority members have apparently reached conclusions that are 180 degrees apart.
 
#13
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#14
#14
It's Douglass with 2 s's. Other authors are Christy, Pearson and Singer.

It's not in print yet but appears on the METS site under the journal link.

Here's a link that has a link to the PDF. I've seen this work both heralded as showing GHG models are incorrect and others that trash the study.

New Study Increases Concerns About Climate Model Reliability

The Reference Frame: Douglass, Christy, Pearson, Singer


Thanks, for one reason or another I couldn't find this on SciFinder. This is an interesting study. I wouldn't classify this work as junk science. Christy is very well respected and wouldn't put his time into an effort that was worthless. I am not a Fred Singer fan though, so I have to admit that I would expect a little propoganda as soon as I see him name attached.

The conclusions I draw from this and the conclusions that a lot of blogs drew from this are quite different. I see this study as identifying an interesting disagreement between the popular climate models and the data sets they (Douglass and Pearson) have chosen to study. You would prefer not to see disagreement of this kind. However, the amount of disagreement is hard to discuss outside of a discussion on the errors of the models and data. I know that the models have propability distributions associated with their temperature predicitons (this is where the 2 sigma in the model comes in, which is discussed). The sattelites used to take these measurements, however, have to have error bars as well. I would like to see those before I made any hard and fast conclusion.

The bottom line is that it is very hard to really dissect this paper. While I am very interested in the material, they are crossing into a region of familiarity with the inner-workings of the models and data measurement that I do not have. So, my conclusions probably don't mean much.

I don't think that this will end up being a global climate change life-changing moment. But, this may be a good indication that the models need improvement; however, without error bars, I won't even say that with too much concreteness. Whether this is a sign of not enough attention to negative feedbacks should be looked at. To assert that current models do not consider negative feedbacks, only positive feedbacks, is ridiculous, though...as some have done.

I wish that I knew enough about the details to have a more firm opinion, Volinbham. I read through some of the stuff that the folks on the blogs and realclimate had to say. I agree with realclimate's discussion of error bars .. I don't know enough some of the other aspects to agree or disagree. I would honestly expect this to be hyped a lot by the "denial" blogs...and hopefully not discarded by the GW scientists. These results should be looked at, and the more updated sattelite observations should be included in an updated study..with error bars.
 

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