FSU Board of Trustees to start formally getting out of the ACC

#51
#51
lawgator1 said:
I've long opposed that but I think it's time to relent and be ok with FSU joining.

Miami is a different story. They lack any semblance of identity with SEC schools, at any level. They should never be allowed into the SEC.
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I actually agree with you LG. Also, they can just about give tickets away and still nobody shows up to Miami home games.
 
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#53
#53
volbound1700 said:
Sorry for all the posts, I find the topic and everyone else's posts very interesting.

Another thought, if FSU had a destination, would they be going public with everything? Notice that with most of the expansion candidates (notably OU, Texas, UCLA, and USC), the move came out of left field and was done privately behind doors. Oregon and Washington was a little more knowledgeable but that was because Pac12 issues were in the forefront. Texas A&M made a lot of noise as well with the SECEDE stuff so that might be the exception but, historically, most of the done deals have happened behind closed doors.
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This is generally correct. Which seems to hint - especially with this recurringly happening - FSU doesn’t likely have any sort of future home at this point…they’re instead going the “loud child who wants pizza at a Denny’s” approach: repeatedly screaming and yelling to try to get what they want.
 
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#54
#54
volbound1700 said:
Yeah, everyone is talking about this again but there are still two major hurdles that I don't think have been addressed:

1. Getting the money for the buy-out (there might be a way around it legally and not paying by labeling the contract unequitable but that is another story).

2. B1G and SEC have both NOT expressed interest right now and it seems like FSU isn't doing enough to get interest. B1G is having an issue with FSU not being AAU and SEC seems to be happy with current layout (between two the SEC seems more likely)

There is also an interest tidbit, ESPN has the ACC Television rights, they are also the proponent for the SEC. To me, ESPN advocating for Alabama didn't make that much sense since they also, technically, have the media rights for FSU and the ACC deal is actually a more favorable contract for them. However, Alabama has significantly more ratings so that may have been the real factor.
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You’re missing the 3rd hurdle: the Grant of Rights and the buyout aren’t the same thing.

Paying $120 million (or whatever the exit fee is at the moment) doesn’t deal with the whole “ACC legally owning the team’s media rights for the next 13 years and getting all the TV revenue that FSU would get from a new conference until 2036.”
 
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#55
#55
volbound1700 said:
True but rumor is that FSU isn't getting the hits. I mean with the right deal, it will happen. It took Oregon and Washington giving up half their revenue to get in the B1G and make it work but they did it. FSU is probably going to need to do something similar to get into, at least, the B1G. Not sure about the SEC as I have heard that, by policy, they won't do something like that and only bring in full members. Little known secret, CBS never paid the cut for Missouri and Texas A&M joining but the SEC still paid out both programs in full and took the hit (the other members I mean).
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The Missouri and Texas A&M additions weren’t about the CBS (first tier) TV contract. They were about the second and third tier TV rights contracts (with ESPN) and bundling all of that together into an SEC Network that made the schools millions upon millions upon millions more in conference revenue, especially from the additional large TV markets it covered (as the conference received a higher dollar amount per subscriber in regions its footprint covered versus everywhere else in the country).
 
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#56
#56
#57
#57
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
It's no secret FSU has been seriously trying to get in the AAU. That's an obvious nod to the B1G.

Miami DID get in the AAU this year and the B1G getting in FL for TV and recruiting makes good sense. Miami and FSU would be solid choices for that.

On the other side, the SEC grabbing FSU and Miami to keep the B1G out of FL could be in the mix. Not that we WANT them, exactly, but we want the damn yankees to stay out of our backyard.
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If “keeping out/from expanding southward” is your concern, then the move would be cutting it off at the head by adding UNC and UVA to take the main schools from the 9th and 12th most populated states away from them.

The Big 10 doubling down in the state of Florida isn’t going to do nearly as much as the money from those in the long run (and believe me, if it came down to the Big 10 choosing between “NC+VA money” and “2 big schools in FL money”, they’d gladly let the SEC take the 2nd one 10 out of 10 times).
 
#58
#58
TrueOrange said:
If “keeping out/from expanding southward” is your concern, then the move would be cutting it off at the head by adding UNC and UVA to take the main schools from the 9th and 12th most populated states away from them.

The Big 10 doubling down in the state of Florida isn’t going to do nearly as much as the money from those in the long run.
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Frankly, I don't think UVA would come to the SEC. They're like the B1G and extremely conscious of their academic status.

Let's face it, if the SEC were forming today, Vandy stays as far away from the SEC as possible.

The B1G only wants into FL for more recruiting opportunities.
 
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#59
#59
McDad said:
You think UVA brings competitiveness in any of the big 3 sports?
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UVA has won titles in both basketball and baseball in the past nine years. The potential for having have a very good football program is there, but it’s something that the university has never particularly cared about. During my days as a student there, 15-17 years ago, football was an afterthought with the student body and Charlottesville community.
 
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#60
#60
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#61
#61
TrueOrange said:
You’re missing the 3rd hurdle: the Grant of Rights and the buyout aren’t the same thing.

Paying $120 million (or whatever the exit fee is at the moment) doesn’t deal with the whole “ACC legally owning the team’s media rights for the next 13 years and getting all the TV revenue that FSU would get from a new conference until 2036.”
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ESPN is the party to contract as well, that is who has then locked into bad TV deal (or good for ESPN). ESPN could help but you are right, it wouldn't be 100%.
 
#62
#62
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Frankly, I don't think UVA would come to the SEC. They're like the B1G and extremely conscious of their academic status.

Let's face it, if the SEC were forming today, Vandy stays as far away from the SEC as possible.

The B1G only wants into FL for more recruiting opportunities.
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People said the same crap about Texas and they came to the SEC. None of these leagues/schools care about the Academic side. They just use it when convenient to politely say no.
 
#63
#63
TrueOrange said:
The Missouri and Texas A&M additions weren’t about the CBS (first tier) TV contract. They were about the second and third tier TV rights contracts (with ESPN) and bundling all of that together into an SEC Network that made the schools millions upon millions upon millions more in conference revenue, especially from the additional large TV markets it covered (as the conference received a higher dollar amount per subscriber in regions its footprint covered versus everywhere else in the country).
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It was well reported that SEC expected CBS to move as well and it didn't happen. That is when the SEC started to move away from CBS. Go read the articles attached to the CBS farewell threads on here.
 
#64
#64
OldandStillaVol said:
All true but the one huge advantage UM has is that local high school football talent might be the best in the nation. So if they can dominate just their 100 mile radius in signing players, they will be nationally competitive.
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Yes, that is true and a big difference between them and Vandy. UM still has to recruit against UF and FSU for those players though.

It isn't like there is a dearth of talent in the midstate either, but Vandy would have to fight Tennessee and some other SEC schools (particularly Alabama) for it, and they just have no shot.
 
#65
#65
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Frankly, I don't think UVA would come to the SEC. They're like the B1G and extremely conscious of their academic status.

Let's face it, if the SEC were forming today, Vandy stays as far away from the SEC as possible.

The B1G only wants into FL for more recruiting opportunities.
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That is all pretentiousness though. Like the SEC, the Big 10 only has one school that basically purely academically focused, and that's Northwestern.

Even though they are academically strong schools, very few players on on Michigan or Penn St would get in there purely as regular students. No different than any SEC school. They operate the same way as these SEC programs they think they're better than.
 
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#66
#66
05_never_again said:
That is all pretentiousness though. Like the SEC, the Big 10 only has one school that basically purely academically focused, and that's Northwestern.

Even though they are academically strong schools, very few players on on Michigan or Penn St would get in there purely as regular students. No different than any SEC school. They operate the same way as these SEC programs they think they're better than.
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Most of the B1G schools are pretentious and so is UVA. I'm not arguing they're better, I'm saying their admins like to position the school as better.

Nothing about P5 sports is really about the athletes and the school academically, as you say, but the B1G really likes to pretend they're all AAU, high level research schools, etc.

UVA will enroll a kid based on his 40 time all day, every day, but they don't want anyone to think they're like MS State or Arkansas academically.
 
#67
#67
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Frankly, I don't think UVA would come to the SEC. They're like the B1G and extremely conscious of their academic status.

Let's face it, if the SEC were forming today, Vandy stays as far away from the SEC as possible.

The B1G only wants into FL for more recruiting opportunities.
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I doubt that, Vandy likes the money.
 
#68
#68
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Most of the B1G schools are pretentious and so is UVA. I'm not arguing they're better, I'm saying their admins like to position the school as better.

Nothing about P5 sports is really about the athletes and the school academically, as you say, but the B1G really likes to pretend they're all AAU, high level research schools, etc.

UVA will enroll a kid based on his 40 time all day, every day, but they don't want anyone to think they're like MS State or Arkansas academically.
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Well, both sides to this argument are correct. The Big Ten isn't factually incorrect when they toot their own horn about how strong the conference is academically. However their critics are correct to point out that in practice they operate the same way as the other P5 conferences when it comes to admissions for athletes.

There are really just a handful of P5 schools in the country (Vandy, Stanford, N'western come to mind) where most/all of their athletes would also have gotten in as regular students. Michigan is a better school than say, LSU, but both rosters are full of players who are only there because they're good at a sport.
 
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#69
#69
volbound1700 said:
People said the same crap about Texas and they came to the SEC. None of these leagues/schools care about the Academic side. They just use it when convenient to politely say no.
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TX would have preferred the B1G but aTm is in the SEC already and couldn't jump to the B1G with them, even though that makes the most sense academically and as a rivalry.

Personally, I think TX, aTm, and Mizzou are much more like B1G schools than SEC schools but aTm just wanted away from TX when they came to the SEC and the B1G, at the time, thought they were too far out of the geographic area.

It's all money driven now. TX wasn't going to be left out of the money, the B1G needed somebody "better" than OU (they're not AAU) to come in with them, and the SEC would take them both.
 
#70
#70
05_never_again said:
Well, both sides to this argument are correct. The Big Ten isn't factually incorrect when they toot their own horn about how strong the conference is academically. However their critics are correct to point out that in practice they operate the same way as the other P5 conferences when it comes to admissions for athletes.

There are really just a handful of P5 schools in the country (Vandy, Stanford, N'western come to mind) where most/all of their athletes would also have gotten in as regular students. Michigan is a better school than say, LSU, but both rosters are full of players who are only there because they're good at a sport.
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The B1G likes to pretend they're Ivy League academically and SEC athletically: the best of both worlds.

UVA wishes like hell they were Ivy League. Started by Jefferson, designed by Jefferson, yada, yada, yada.

Given that money drives the bus now, UVA might come to the SEC like TX did, but I think UVA and UNC would prefer to be seen as "a B1G type of school" than an "SEC type school."
 
#71
#71
They are a little late to the dance. I doubt either the SEC of the B10 want to expand again so soon - especially the B10 because they now have schools on each coast. Football and basketball aside, there are going to be huge logistical issues for all the other athletic programs. I figure both the SEC and the B10 will want to work through the problems of a 16 team conference before expanding to 18 or 20.

ACC need to rework their ESPN deal if possible to get better revenue…they have enough programs to be the 3rd best football league
 
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#72
#72
hog88 said:
I doubt that, Vandy likes the money.
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Vandy wouldn't get offered for SEC in today's alignment. They bring nothing in the way of eyeballs. We bring nothing to them because they don't really care about athletics, it's just nice for Buffy and Trip to have that diversion to watch while they get their degree.
 
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#73
#73
I understand that FSU and the ACC is upset - but not sure leaving the ACC giving the format of the 12 team playoff is in their best interest - unless they feel there is more money to be made elsewhere.

Next year the ACC champ is assured of not only a spot in the playoffs but a "Bye". FSU has a better chance of winning the ACC, year in and year out, then they do in the other conferences.
 
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#74
#74
Sarms58 said:
They are a little late to the dance. I doubt either the SEC of the B10 want to expand again so soon - especially the B10 because they now have schools on each coast. Football and basketball aside, there are going to be huge logistical issues for all the other athletic programs. I figure both the SEC and the B10 will want to work through the problems of a 16 team conference before expanding to 18 or 20.

ACC need to rework their ESPN deal if possible to get better revenue…they have enough programs to be the 3rd best football league
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ESPN isn't doing that well with the SEC deal. It's not exactly the jewel in the Mouse's portfolio. They're not going to throw money at the ACC.

Fox might buy the ACC rights from ESPN THEN the Grant of Rights might be dealt with.

I think Fox could "help out" the ACC and facilitate expanding the B1G (Fox/CBS TV rights) but that kind of wheeling and dealing is next level chess to me.
 
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#75
#75
My take - rather than all this talk, FSU needs to concentrate on a plan to beat UGA. Do that and what happened with playoffs points back to the committee not having the backbone stand up to the SEC.

I realize the whole decision was ABOUT THE MONEY - which implies is has never been about "the best teams".
 
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