FSU Board of Trustees to start formally getting out of the ACC

[volfan102455]

My kid came back from Austin with a "People's Republic of Austin" T shirt. How do you think that would fly anywhere outside Austin? The little turd just wanted to yank my chain.

The University of TX is a liberal institution. Most of TX fans that aren't liberal will hold their nose and attend a game there, but they hate the school and Austin. HATE IT.

The school is much more B1G, also, because there's a lot of big research there. It's not a cattle ranch kid school.

Rankings are very subjective - in some rankings you will not see any B1G schools at all in the top 50, others you see OSU and UM. All of them I looked at do contain ... Florida though. Tennessee shows up in some, not in others.

Choosing a school for an education is very different than choosing a school for sports. And it is safe bet that alumni contributing to the research /educational aspects of the University are generally the same who donate to the AD. Yes there is some overlap, but the research universities are getting their research money more than likely from large corporations who are also profitting from the research.

 

[volfan102455]

Research money spent at tOSU in 2022 was $1.36 billion dollars.

Research money spent at UTK in 2022 was about $350 million.

Which I would expect given where OSU is located at. I also suspect Vandy has more research money, and Georgia Tech, possibly even Georgia given where they are located at.

Knoxville is not a major hub for a lot of cutting-edge corporations who are going to partner with and contribute money to research.

I view UTK more as a traditional university which focuses on the education of the students. It also makes a difference with how much you learn. Professors that are focused on research are sometimes not the best educators.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Rankings are very subjective - in some rankings you will not see any B1G schools at all in the top 50, others you see OSU and UM. All of them I looked at do contain ... Florida though. Tennessee shows up in some, not in others.

Choosing a school for an education is very different than choosing a school for sports. And it is safe bet that alumni contributing to the research /educational aspects of the University are generally the same who donate to the AD. Yes there is some overlap, but the research universities are getting their research money more than likely from large corporations who are also profitting from the research.

Absolutely, it's different and that's why I think schools like UVA would prefer to be aligned with the B1G, just as they like being in the AAU.

There WAS a time when schools were educational institutions FIRST and sports was secondary, even in the SEC. Let's not lie to ourselves. The SEC is mostly about sports now and academics is second.

That's EXACTLY the NCAA problem with "athletes are employees now" lawsuits. Sports money is, sometimes, WELL beyond the research a school does.

The B1G schools ACTUALLY ARE research institutions. Unlike the NCAA, the AAU doesn't give a damn about sports revenue, but is "The Amateur Athletic Union" that actually expects ACADEMIC and ATHLETIC standards that are pretty high.

 

[TrueOrange]

Absolutely, it's different and that's why I think schools like UVA would prefer to be aligned with the B1G, just as they like being in the AAU.

There WAS a time when schools were educational institutions FIRST and sports was secondary, even in the SEC. Let's not lie to ourselves. The SEC is mostly about sports now and academics is second.

That's EXACTLY the NCAA problem with "athletes are employees now" lawsuits. Sports money is, sometimes, WELL beyond the research a school does.

The B1G schools ACTUALLY ARE research institutions. Unlike the NCAA, the AAU doesn't give a damn about sports revenue, but is "The Amateur Athletic Union" that actually expects ACADEMIC and ATHLETIC standards that are pretty high.

I thought it was the Association of American Universities

Association of American Universities - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I think you might possibly have mixed up the AAU that’s being discussed here with this one:

Amateur Athletic Union - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I thought it was the Association of American Universities

Association of American Universities - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I think you might possibly have mixed up the AAU that’s being discussed here with this one:

Amateur Athletic Union - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

My bad. That's correct. Too many basketball tournaments with kids, I honestly thought they were affiliated.

Edit: I can't believe some AAU attorney hasn't sued on this like the World Wildlife Federation sued WWF wrestling.

 

[LouderVol]

Which I would expect given where OSU is located at. I also suspect Vandy has more research money, and Georgia Tech, possibly even Georgia given where they are located at.

Knoxville is not a major hub for a lot of cutting-edge corporations who are going to partner with and contribute money to research.

I view UTK more as a traditional university which focuses on the education of the students. It also makes a difference with how much you learn. Professors that are focused on research are sometimes not the best educators.

Columbus has a lot of cutting edge corporations? could have fooled me. if you mean its just a bigger city, sure, but I am not sure why its considered a research hub.

Knoxville has Oak Ridge National Labs, one of the biggest/best R&D labs in the nation. and yes the University does partner with them.

that is 66k at their Columbus campus only. it is the 5th largest university in the nation.

 

[ptcarter]

Why does everyone want to grow the SEC? I'm still upset about Arkansas and South Carolina joining. Think about it. UT hasn't won an SEC championship since 1998, hasn't been to the championship game since 2007. Expanding isn't going to help that. The national championship would be easier to get to if you were from the Big10.

 

[volbound1700]

Btw for all the B1G academic arguments on here, Vandy (an SEC school) still beats any B1G team in Academic Rankings.

 

[MHS Rebel]

Have they started a GoFundMe account?

 

[Lawrence Wright]

UM as an institution is like if Vandy had a couple very distinct periods in their history where their football program was winning multiple national titles and had a Motley Crue-like fanbase. If you were creating the SEC today, or if Vandy was outside of the SEC today, they'd never, ever, be allowed in.

UM is a pretty small, academically-selective private school with an administration that doesn't really prioritize athletics. Any success they have in athletics is in spite of their administration. They don't have great fan support or fan culture. It's weird that they play their games off-campus in an NFL stadium.

@lawgator1 and @Lawrence Wright are closer to it, but that's how I've always assessed them. It's a very peculiar program/institution - there really isn't another program in CFB quite like them.

You pretty much nailed it.

 

[Baseball25]

Since I see research money mentioned I had a professor in college that wanted everyone to know he came from a school that uses the word "The" in front of their name. He said corruption in athletics couldn't hold a candle to what goes on to get that research money.

 

[#1fulmerite]

I think it is actually to the B1G and SEC's advantage to sit and wait it out. Remember that Clemson would not have been that attractive prior to Swinney's run. Miami seems to be an after thought now while they would have been a big brand to grab in the early 2000s. Oregon was not that attractive prior to the Nike investment. Seeing how these teams perform over a long-term situation instead of making a knee jerk reaction is the best bet. B1G has some buyer's remorse with Maryland and Rutgers in my opinion and wants to avoid just grabbing teams to grab them.

SEC has always been a little strategic in its moves staying somewhat regional and picking up teams that fit to a degree. Even with Missouri feeling a little odd as a pickup, they have still managed to fit in to a degree and brought value to the league. I also feel like the B1G has upgraded with their new AD and is being more strategic now. Both are still trying to digest the current expansion as well. Going off history, the next round of expansions won't be until mid 2030s which also aligns well with the ACC's contract end. I think both leagues are willing to wait it out and I would be surprised if there is a move.

Regarding UNC and UVA, I don't think they care as long as they get the check. I have actually heard UNC leans more SEC and UVA might as well because they were historically in the SIAA and Southern Conference with SEC schools and UNC would love to be in a league with Kentucky Basketball to play against. There is also an off chance that the SEC would take Duke as well. Back when the ACC lost Maryland, it was UNC and Duke that talked to the SEC (they didn't talk to the B1G).

Keep in mind that UNC would have geographical connections with South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, and others. They really don't have that with the B1G other than Maryland.

I’m going to laugh and laugh hard if they do get out of the contract, get in another conference and fall on their faces!

 

[volbound1700]

I’m going to laugh and laugh hard if they do get out of the contract, get in another conference and fall on their faces!

Or worse, they can't get in another conference...

 

[#1fulmerite]

Or worse, they can't get in another conference...

And then become the Kentucky of the ACC.

 

[DarkVolder]

FSU isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. They should go back to being a independent like ND if they do leave.

 

[hUTch2002]

Well, both sides to this argument are correct. The Big Ten isn't factually incorrect when they toot their own horn about how strong the conference is academically. However their critics are correct to point out that in practice they operate the same way as the other P5 conferences when it comes to admissions for athletes.

There are really just a handful of P5 schools in the country (Vandy, Stanford, N'western come to mind) where most/all of their athletes would also have gotten in as regular students. Michigan is a better school than say, LSU, but both rosters are full of players who are only there because they're good at a sport.

UT is really tightening up on their requirements as well. No way I’d make it in today with the barely 3.0 GPA I had in high school. I think I had a 27 or 28 on the ACT and something like a 1240 or 1260 on the SAT. Those aren’t bad scores but they’re not great either. Of course, like 98-99% of Power 5 schools, being able to play a major sport well changes the equation.

 

[hUTch2002]

My take - rather than all this talk, FSU needs to concentrate on a plan to beat UGA. Do that and what happened with playoffs points back to the committee not having the backbone stand up to the SEC.

I realize the whole decision was ABOUT THE MONEY - which implies is has never been about "the best teams".

But then the narrative will be UGA didn’t care. The outcome of that game means nothing relative to the committee’s decision.

 

[hUTch2002]

They simply have a much bigger fanbase than Tennessee. It's probably the single-largest fanbase in all of college sports in terms of the sheer number of people. The school itself is in Columbus, a metro area with over 2 million people. Ohio also has a population of almost 12 million people, and they don't share the state with another major school. When you combine that with the fact that their team is basically always really good, you're going to have a huge following.

Knoxville's metro area is half the size of Columbus and Tennessee has one-third less the population (7 million versus 12 million). We don't share the state with another major school either, but West Tennessee has never been exactly a Volunteer stronghold.

How dare you!? Cincinnati, Toledo and Akron are all football strongholds! I’m kidding of course but now that I think about it, Cinci probably is about like having Vandy.

 

[hUTch2002]

I generally agree, although I'd throw in Wisconsin, Iowa, and Michigan St as all having solid fanbases. Especially Wisconsin.

It’s Michigan, Ohio State and then everyone else. No other B10 schools have a large national following.

 

[hUTch2002]

Not really. I meet tons of people from Wisconsin and the Badgers are an after thought. They are all about the Packers. Wisconsin is the minor league team to them.

Michigan State and Iowa have decent fanbases but they are more on par with Arkansas or South Carolina in revenue generation. Basically if Michigan and Ohio State leave the B1G, it is over.

SEC has at least 9 programs on par with Michigan and Ohio State (and maybe Penn State). Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and LSU can only move the needle heavily for any league.

This is why I argue the B1G is weaker than the SEC. I think Michigan and Ohio State are actually ahead of any SEC schools not named Texas on fan support and revenue (Alabama does have a large following with Saban right now but you have to review them long-term).

I disagree on what I think you’re saying with comparing of fan bases. Ohio St and Michigan are huge national brands, no other school
In the Big 10 comes close to those two, not even Penn St. SEC-wise isn’t that different actually. I’d say the biggest brands with national reach are Alabama, Texas and Florida. Georgia is hit right now due to recent success but they’re still not the same as the 3 I listed. Auburn, Tennessee, Oklahoma and LSU are more regional brands. Yes there are fans everywhere but not like there are with those national brands. Penn St is similar to the regional group. I’d honestly put A&M a notch below those teams. They’re a local brand. Get outside of Texas and you just don’t see a ton of A&M fans.

 

[volbound1700]

It’s Michigan, Ohio State and then everyone else. No other B10 schools have a large national following.

Penn State and Nebraska have a decent following but they have struggled to be on the level of Michigan and Ohio State. Well Nebraska just struggles to even win games now.

 

[volbound1700]

I disagree on what I think you’re saying with comparing of fan bases. Ohio St and Michigan are huge national brands, no other school
In the Big 10 comes close to those two, not even Penn St. SEC-wise isn’t that different actually. I’d say the biggest brands with national reach are Alabama, Texas and Florida. Georgia is hit right now due to recent success but they’re still not the same as the 3 I listed. Auburn, Tennessee, Oklahoma and LSU are more regional brands. Yes there are fans everywhere but not like there are with those national brands. Penn St is similar to the regional group. I’d honestly put A&M a notch below those teams. They’re a local brand. Get outside of Texas and you just don’t see a ton of A&M fans.

It depends somewhat on success. Tennessee came in between 13 to 15 in past years but was 5th last year when they finally had a good year again. If these teams win, their following rises dramatically. SEC has the big 6 of Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, LSU, and Tennessee. Kentucky is great in Basketball. Of the expansion teams, you can consider Oklahoma, Texas, and A&M among that group now. The two Texas teams make the most $ based on most rankings. I do think Ohio State has the biggest fanbase of any program, however. Notre Dame has a very large following as well but it is slipped over time because they haven't been a true contender since the 1980s.

 

[hUTch2002]

My bad. That's correct. Too many basketball tournaments with kids, I honestly thought they were affiliated.

Edit: I can't believe some AAU attorney hasn't sued on this like the World Wildlife Federation sued WWF wrestling.

The real shame is we can’t have wildlife wrestling. That would be fun!

 

[hUTch2002]

Penn State and Nebraska have a decent following but they have struggled to be on the level of Michigan and Ohio State. Well Nebraska just struggles to even win games now.

Penn St and Nebraska are regional. I made friends of some Nebraska fans when I lived in Texas. I’d go to their Nebraska fan club game parties and we down to A&M to watch Nebraska play when both were B12 schools. I love Nebraska fans!

 

[TrumpedUpVol]

It’s Michigan, Ohio State and then everyone else. No other B10 schools have a large national following.

Agreed. Michigan and Ohio State are to the Big Ten as Alabama and Texas are to the SEC. Penn State is a huge brand, sure, but it's ultimately more akin to present-day Florida/LSU/Tennessee. Any time you're in an airport, take inventory of the people wearing out-of-region college apparel and Michigan just dwarves every other school.