Game Thread: Lady Vols Vs LSU; Thurs Jan 9th ; Home game; 6:30 PM Eastern; SEC+ stream

#701
#701
Unimane said:
I, too, am a competitor, but this is silly. It's one thing to say you "hate losing" and another to get all pissy and defeatist in the middle of the damn season after losing to two top ten teams on last second shots. A true winner realizes this is the early part of January and there are more games to play and win, which is what we intend to do.

You want to get all mopey and say this is a middle of the road team, give up, then fine. But, don't pretend you're some kind of winner. That's simply quitting and I used to eat pouty chumps like this for lunch back when I had the tools to do so.
Click to expand...
So. Which Waffle House we meeting at so we can watch you kick dat azz? 😉🤙🏼🧡
 
  • Like
Reactions: krichunaka, utVolFanInVA and Volinnooga
#706
#706
RespectAPA said:
Why not? The Lady Vols, in Spear's minutes, are 0-5 against Power competition. If it wasn't for greatly positive play when Spear is off the court, most fans would have already happily come to the conclusion that Caldwell's system can't beat power conference teams, when the actual reality is that Spear is apparently one-dimensional player who can shoot 3s, but does not get offensive rebounds, does not play defense well, and likely [though it would take some film review focused on her to conclude] accomplishes little to set up her teammates to score on the possessions that don't end with a made Spear 3, which is still a single digit number of possessions per game.

And, though the Lady Vols + Spear are 0-5 (-42 differential), meanwhile the Lady Vols without Spear on the court are 5-0 (+63 differential) with 2 wins against nationally highly ranked teams, and 2 blowouts against Iowa and A&M, and a double digit win against FSU. That seems meaningful, and it would be more than enough to make conclusions on. ["Caldwell's system can't win" in one reality vs "We're winning the natty boys!" in the other]

Instead, fans are looking at 3-2 in that stretch and some are confused about whether we're legit or not, when a real issue is that a player who is net negative is playing 30 minutes a game, because coach (and the fans) are only looking at her 3P% rate and nothing else.

Oh, also, Spear was the only player who had a negative +/- against Liberty. So Spear, in a +/- sense, is 5-6 in games she's participated in. [unclear about the Richmond game because those stats didn't survive]

And 4 of her wins are against very weak teams; vs. MTSU is the only game she participated in against a team with a pulse where she ended up positiv.
Click to expand...
“[though it would take some film review focused on her to conclude]”

I suggest doing that before relying exclusively on a meaningless stat
 
  • Like
Reactions: newladyvolfan
#707
#707
RespectAPA said:
Why not? The Lady Vols, in Spear's minutes, are 0-5 against Power competition. If it wasn't for greatly positive play when Spear is off the court, most fans would have already happily come to the conclusion that Caldwell's system can't beat power conference teams, when the actual reality is that Spear is apparently one-dimensional player who can shoot 3s, but does not get offensive rebounds, does not play defense well, and likely [though it would take some film review focused on her to conclude] accomplishes little to set up her teammates to score on the possessions that don't end with a made Spear 3, which is still a single digit number of possessions per game.

And, though the Lady Vols + Spear are 0-5 (-42 differential), meanwhile the Lady Vols without Spear on the court are 5-0 (+63 differential) with 2 wins against nationally highly ranked teams, and 2 blowouts against Iowa and A&M, and a double digit win against FSU. That seems meaningful, and it would be more than enough to make conclusions on. ["Caldwell's system can't win" in one reality vs "We're winning the natty boys!" in the other]

Instead, fans are looking at 3-2 in that stretch and some are confused about whether we're legit or not, when a real issue is that a player who is net negative is playing 30 minutes a game, because coach (and the fans) are only looking at her 3P% rate and nothing else.

Oh, also, Spear was the only player who had a negative +/- against Liberty. So Spear, in a +/- sense, is 5-6 in games she's participated in. [unclear about the Richmond game because those stats didn't survive]

And 4 of her wins are against very weak teams; vs. MTSU is the only game she participated in against a team with a pulse where she ended up positiv.
Click to expand...
And without Spear we wouldn’t be in the last two games but would have lost by 16+ both games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vol 67, Voluble2 and brittannica
#710
#710
chuckiepoo said:
Pick up the defense and we may contend this year.
Click to expand...
Possibly, I guess. Idk enough about women’s basketball this yr. I assume USCjr, LSU, UCONN, Duke, and a couple other SEC schools are the probable contenders.

I never thought I’d see the day when Lady Vols would be irrelevant. Pat would’ve been livid losing two consecutive games, let alone at home. But, it’s where we are so embrace the new coach and let her do her thing.
 
#712
#712
KnoxLikeUs said:
WBB is still relevant today due in large part to Tennessee women’s basketball. They have never fallen off a cliff. What has happened is they went through a phase that all great programs will experience.
As a sports person, I knew the Lady Vols would eventually work their way back to the top.
They have already shown this season they are a strong and talented team that is highly competitive.
They will get over the hump.
GBO!
Click to expand...
Agree
 
  • Like
Reactions: UTvols#1
#713
#713
volforlife15 said:
“[though it would take some film review focused on her to conclude]”

I suggest doing that before relying exclusively on a meaningless stat
Click to expand...

The film comes in when it comes to assessing how Spear is -28 differential while scoring 73 points in 3 SEC games. Her differential is OVER 100 POINTS BELOW (105 to be exact) the points that she's individual scored. Her +/- is leaking somewhere, you don't just magically end up negative differential while scoring almost 25 PPG in conference play, and it's probably a combination of the three things I just identified. It's just a matter how how extreme which one is. The defense is probably the biggest part of it, though.

I'm entirely open to missing something here. But I asked for it to be shown, and there really hasn't been much of anything in the way of an explanation for how a player could be so negative +/- in big games and still be considered a key contributor. It seems much more likely that Spear's issues aren't as easily identified on a stat sheet than some idea that she's just been unlucky in +/- in 6 games she's been net negative in (all P5 games + Liberty, she was the only player who went negative vs Liberty) and that she really is a meaningful part of the reason why we went 4-2 in the aforementioned 6 games where Spear went negative.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BruisedOrange
#716
#716
volforlife15 said:
“[though it would take some film review focused on her to conclude]”

I suggest doing that before relying exclusively on a meaningless stat
Click to expand...
Not a totally meaningless stat. It is kept in the NBA. The problem occurs with how it is applied.

“Mostly, it’s better to leave plus/minus alone entirely until about halfway through the season, at least for individual players. At that point, there’s been enough repetition for anomalies to even out. The stat starts ringing truer then. “Given a variety of circumstances, teammates, and opponents, we can say that the team generally experiences a negative or positive swing versus their opponent when this player is on the floor.”

www.blazersedge.com

Demystifying the NBA Plus-Minus Stat

Or, "Is Scoot Henderson really the worst player in the history of the universe?"
www.blazersedge.com www.blazersedge.com

There are specific defensive metrics which better reflect Spear’s actual defensive value while on the court.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VOLSanon, krichunaka and BruisedOrange
#718
#718
chuckiepoo said:
Not a totally meaningless stat. It is kept in the NBA. The problem occurs with how it is applied.

“Mostly, it’s better to leave plus/minus alone entirely until about halfway through the season, at least for individual players. At that point, there’s been enough repetition for anomalies to even out. The stat starts ringing truer then. “Given a variety of circumstances, teammates, and opponents, we can say that the team generally experiences a negative or positive swing versus their opponent when this player is on the floor.”

www.blazersedge.com

Demystifying the NBA Plus-Minus Stat

Or, "Is Scoot Henderson really the worst player in the history of the universe?"
www.blazersedge.com www.blazersedge.com

There are specific defensive metrics which better reflect Spear’s actual defensive value while on the court.
Click to expand...
Half an nba season is more games than Tennessee will play this entire year. Hence the meaningless part for college basketball. It’s just way too small of a small size especially when people start nitpicking the games
 
  • Like
Reactions: newladyvolfan, chuckiepoo and tbwhhs
#720
#720
chuckiepoo said:
Not a totally meaningless stat. It is kept in the NBA. The problem occurs with how it is applied.

“Mostly, it’s better to leave plus/minus alone entirely until about halfway through the season, at least for individual players. At that point, there’s been enough repetition for anomalies to even out. The stat starts ringing truer then. “Given a variety of circumstances, teammates, and opponents, we can say that the team generally experiences a negative or positive swing versus their opponent when this player is on the floor.”

www.blazersedge.com

Demystifying the NBA Plus-Minus Stat

Or, "Is Scoot Henderson really the worst player in the history of the universe?"
www.blazersedge.com www.blazersedge.com

There are specific defensive metrics which better reflect Spear’s actual defensive value while on the court.
Click to expand...
…of course those are exceedingly hard to find for women’s college basketball. 😉🤙🏼
 
  • Like
Reactions: krichunaka
#722
#722
RespectAPA said:
The film comes in when it comes to assessing how Spear is -28 differential while scoring 73 points in 3 SEC games. Her differential is OVER 100 POINTS BELOW (105 to be exact) the points that she's individual scored. Her +/- is leaking somewhere, you don't just magically end up negative differential while scoring almost 25 PPG in conference play, and it's probably a combination of the three things I just identified. It's just a matter how how extreme which one is. The defense is probably the biggest part of it, though.

I'm entirely open to missing something here. But I asked for it to be shown, and there really hasn't been much of anything in the way of an explanation for how a player could be so negative +/- in big games and still be considered a key contributor. It seems much more likely that Spear's issues aren't as easily identified on a stat sheet than some idea that she's just been unlucky in +/- in 6 games she's been net negative in (all P5 games + Liberty, she was the only player who went negative vs Liberty) and that she really is a meaningful part of the reason why we went 4-2 in the aforementioned 6 games where Spear went negative.
Click to expand...
Coming into the game today, Spear ranked:

- 4th on the team in win shares
- 3rd on win shares per 40 mins
- 3rd in box plus minus

So yeah sorry I don’t care about simple plus minus stars cherry-picked from 5 games
 
  • Like
Reactions: newladyvolfan and chuckiepoo
#724
#724
vol94, irrelevant how? I don’t see it taking until next year teams realize in the words of Coach Prime “We Coming” this season. As supporters of UT we can embrace a higher standard of success without degrading the WBB program especially when it’s based on false claims.



vol94 said:
I never thought I’d see the day when Lady Vols would be irrelevant. Pat would’ve been livid losing two consecutive games, let alone at home. But, it’s where we are so embrace the new coach and let her do her thing.
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: MagnoliaVol, GameTime and tbwhhs
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top