Gamesmanship in recruiting

#1
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pimo1

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#1
Has anyone ever wondered how much gamesmanship is involved in recruiting and ratings? Most simply explained say I am a High school Senior and have some decent tape out on you-tube I am not great but the tape makes me look good. All of a sudden I get an offer from UF, UA and USC immediately after that of course offers are going to fly in. My rating jumps from 2 stars to 5 stars without a single scout or coach coming to one of my games.

I have many times wondered how many times this has played out. Really looking at it all the schools every year offer tons of guys they have no intention of signing no matter what. How much of it is a ploy? Now usually the top 100 or so at the beginning of a season are usually very well scouted because their names are out there early. But as the months roll by that list changes a lot.

I guess what i'm asking is how much validity is there in the ratings most players end up getting? Again normally the numbers and reports on the bluechipppers is fairly solid. I am talking about all those borderline 4 stars and guys that are 2 stars just because no one ever really scouted them.
 
#2
#2
I think that is correct. Just look at the differences in ratings of any non blue chip player between scout and rivals.
 
#3
#3
pimo1 said:
Has anyone ever wondered how much gamesmanship is involved in recruiting and ratings? Most simply explained say I am a High school Senior and have some decent tape out on you-tube I am not great but the tape makes me look good. All of a sudden I get an offer from UF, UA and USC immediately after that of course offers are going to fly in. My rating jumps from 2 stars to 5 stars without a single scout or coach coming to one of my games.

I have many times wondered how many times this has played out. Really looking at it all the schools every year offer tons of guys they have no intention of signing no matter what. How much of it is a ploy? Now usually the top 100 or so at the beginning of a season are usually very well scouted because their names are out there early. But as the months roll by that list changes a lot.

I guess what i'm asking is how much validity is there in the ratings most players end up getting? Again normally the numbers and reports on the bluechipppers is fairly solid. I am talking about all those borderline 4 stars and guys that are 2 stars just because no one ever really scouted them.
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I believe that there is truth in what you are saying. Look at Virginia Tech and, more recently, at Boise State. Two programs that are rarely, if ever, in the Top 10 of recruiting; yet, they consistently compete at a high level. I believe that it is due to great analysis of high school players throughout the country. If that was not true, Florida, USC, Texas, Michigan and Ohio State ought to be perennial champions year after year after year. Each of those states produce 100 plus Division One college talent every year and the home school tends to get the pick of the litter. Florida and Texas are hot now but I think moving down not up. USC has been up and I believe that they are trending down. Michigan is down and Ohio State is iffy. I believe your contention is correct. These schools fall asleep at the wheel and quit analyzing the talent that is out there. The secret, in my opinion, of Saban's success is that he is very good at recognizing diamonds in the rough. I hope that Coach Dooley has that talent. Phil Fulmer had it during the 90's but lost it in the new millenium. Good post!
 
#4
#4
Interesting theory. I guess that any kid who can get to a camp may have a leg up on a similarly talented kid who cannot get to camp, but the prospect is still going to have to do something (run fast, jump high, etc.) in order to get a significant rating. It's hard for me to imagine that with all the amatuer and professional talent scouts out there, some prospect is going to rise from complete obscurity to a 5*-rating by virtue of a viral Internet campaign.
 
#5
#5
I do understand what your saying. I know personally that there were guys on my HS football team that played so well that would would sworn they would be playing for a D-1 school. Unless your school is a top 150 highschool in football, the chances are your opponents are just not that good. I have seen guys in the Chattanooga area who have been absolute studs in high school then dont even make them team for UTC, Carson Newman, etc.
 
#6
#6
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Interesting theory. I guess that any kid who can get to a camp may have a leg up on a similarly talented kid who cannot get to camp, but the prospect is still going to have to do something (run fast, jump high, etc.) in order to get a significant rating. It's hard for me to imagine that with all the amatuer and professional talent scouts out there, some prospect is going to rise from complete obscurity to a 5*-rating by virtue of a viral Internet campaign.
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I agree, but I can also see some of these staffs making calls to other coaches and "driving up the price" to keep a kid away from one of their rivals, etc.
 
#7
#7
Vol71 said:
The secret, in my opinion, of Saban's success is that he is very good at recognizing diamonds in the rough. I
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Umm... Per Rivals...

Alabama
2007 - #10 Class
2008 - #1 Class
2009 - #1 Class
2010 - #5 Class

Easy to find diamonds in the rough when you have nothing but diamonds to choose from, just saying...
:hi:
 
#8
#8
Vol71 said:
I believe that there is truth in what you are saying. Look at Virginia Tech and, more recently, at Boise State. Two programs that are rarely, if ever, in the Top 10 of recruiting; yet, they consistently compete at a high level. I believe that it is due to great analysis of high school players throughout the country. If that was not true, Florida, USC, Texas, Michigan and Ohio State ought to be perennial champions year after year after year. Each of those states produce 100 plus Division One college talent every year and the home school tends to get the pick of the litter. Florida and Texas are hot now but I think moving down not up. USC has been up and I believe that they are trending down. Michigan is down and Ohio State is iffy. I believe your contention is correct. These schools fall asleep at the wheel and quit analyzing the talent that is out there. The secret, in my opinion, of Saban's success is that he is very good at recognizing diamonds in the rough. I hope that Coach Dooley has that talent. Phil Fulmer had it during the 90's but lost it in the new millenium. Good post!
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I understand what you're getting at but VT and Boise are not even close to the level of Bama, UF, USC, etc. I'll take my chances with a team full of elite recruits over trying to squeeze every ounce of talent out of average HS players
 
#9
#9
utvolpj said:
I understand what you're getting at but VT and Boise are not even close to the level of Bama, UF, USC, etc. I'll take my chances with a team full of elite recruits over trying to squeeze every ounce of talent out of average HS players
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But therein lies the whole point these guys are not playing with average high school players they are playing with guys everyone else missed on. They win with the 2 and 3 stars that no one really took a look at. A lot of those kids would have ended up 4 stars if they were properly scouted.

At the same time a lot of second teir schools end up with 4 stars that should have been 2's and 3's because the big guys give them offers to drive up their stock.

Look at it like this once you're on the radar people are watching and you know there are people watching. A lot of kids in this situation are going to play outside themselves in this situation and their coaches are going to put them in a position to look good. Thing is most all kids that get an offer from a D1 have talent thats not the issue here. What I mean is what is he doing when no one is watching?

How does he practice? Is he a first in last out type of guy? Does he show up late for practice and sleep walk through it on talent alone? Is he a local legend who others lay down for?

I am from Chatt and we see it a lot down here. Guys that everyone here think is a world beater but really he isn't. The legend build and even opponents stand around waiting for them to be amazing. When you are playing in a pool of 0 stars it's easy to look like a 5 star. What is this guy gonna do when he runs up against guys with similar talent? A 4.7 is like greased lightning when no one on the other side of the field can break 5.
 
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#10
#10
pimo1 said:
Has anyone ever wondered how much gamesmanship is involved in recruiting and ratings? Most simply explained say I am a High school Senior and have some decent tape out on you-tube I am not great but the tape makes me look good. All of a sudden I get an offer from UF, UA and USC immediately after that of course offers are going to fly in. My rating jumps from 2 stars to 5 stars without a single scout or coach coming to one of my games.

I have many times wondered how many times this has played out. Really looking at it all the schools every year offer tons of guys they have no intention of signing no matter what. How much of it is a ploy? Now usually the top 100 or so at the beginning of a season are usually very well scouted because their names are out there early. But as the months roll by that list changes a lot.

I guess what i'm asking is how much validity is there in the ratings most players end up getting? Again normally the numbers and reports on the bluechipppers is fairly solid. I am talking about all those borderline 4 stars and guys that are 2 stars just because no one ever really scouted them.
Click to expand...

There are two schools of thought here....

1. Ratings matter. Because when you look at who is on top of the recruiting world, they have the best classes.

2. Ratings may matter, but if they don't get coached up, then talent can only carry you so far in your endeavors.
 
#11
#11
g8terh8ter_eric said:
There are two schools of thought here....

1. Ratings matter. Because when you look at who is on top of the recruiting world, they have the best classes.

2. Ratings may matter, but if they don't get coached up, then talent can only carry you so far in your endeavors.
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Thing is just being recruited by the big boys up's your ratings. A good point outside of football is the updates scout's BB ranking's notice the guys that committed to KU and UK and similar programs got a bump in ratings while guys that committed earlier to less well thought of programs like UT went down in ranking's. Heck Kanter alone is pretty strong proof that there is not much actual evaluation of the guys in the ranking's.
 
#12
#12
pimo1 said:
Thing is just being recruited by the big boys up's your ratings. A good point outside of football is the updates scout's BB ranking's notice the guys that committed to KU and UK and similar programs got a bump in ratings while guys that committed earlier to less well thought of programs like UT went down in ranking's. Heck Kanter alone is pretty strong proof that there is not much actual evaluation of the guys in the ranking's.
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The big boys are the big boys because they pick good players and are probably not fooled by an internet campaign,
 
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